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Which distribution for a newbie?

  • 30-08-2004 10:44am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭MarVeL


    Ok so I'm a complete neophyte in the world of Linux and I'm going to be setting up a box in the next week or so. Anyone any suggestions as to which distribution would be the best to get? Looking to run it as a basic desktop (for learning purposes) and possibly an email server.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭mneylon


    Hi

    If you are new to linux I would recommend you try one of the following:
    Fedora
    Mandrake
    Suse
    Whitebox (redhat enterprise clone)

    They all come with easy to use graphical installers and will guide you through the entire installation process.


    DO NOT try:
    Slackware
    Gentoo
    Debian

    Although you may hear a lot about the above they are not really suited to beginners.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,538 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    knoppix - no install needed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,763 ✭✭✭Fenster


    Fedora gets my vote and I'm an utter newb


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,865 ✭✭✭Syth


    I have Fedora Core 2 and it was easy to install and use. Quite suitable for a newbie. Though there are reported problems if you dual boot with Win XP, there's a way to fix it, but it's something you should be aware of first.

    I'm starting to think this whole newbies shouldn't touch linux idea is wrong. Linux is very userfriendly now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,763 ✭✭✭Fenster


    Syth wrote:
    I have Fedora Core 2 and it was easy to install and use. Quite suitable for a newbie. Though there are reported problems if you dual boot with Win XP, there's a way to fix it, but it's something you should be aware of first.

    I had that problem. What happens is that Fedora more or less removes the XP partition from the MBR. You have to edit the MBR manually to add it back in. Of course I'm a lazy SoB who was reinstalling anyways so I just formatted the HD. :D
    I'm starting to think this whole newbies shouldn't touch linux idea is wrong. Linux is very userfriendly now.

    I disagree sorta, I would recommend that anyone here trying out Linux for the first time be a power user of Windows and have a grasp of their machine's innards and of PCs in general.

    Using Linux is frequently challenging, more so as most of the guides on the net are utter tripe. They assume a level of expertise that just won't be there with new users or provide half-assed explanations. What's that point in telling us to enter command xyz without telling us why we use that one.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,865 ✭✭✭Syth


    Fenster wrote:
    I disagree sorta, I would recommend that anyone here trying out Linux for the first time be a power user of Windows and have a grasp of their machine's innards and of PCs in general.

    Using Linux is frequently challenging, more so as most of the guides on the net are utter tripe. They assume a level of expertise that just won't be there with new users or provide half-assed explanations. What's that point in telling us to enter command xyz without telling us why we use that one.
    You're right. The main problem is when things don't work. Mainly hardware. The you'll have to have a bit of knowledge about PC and hardware to get it to work. And if something goes wrong prepare to do a lot of reading. There is hardly ever a quick fix.

    However that's if things go wrong. You don't really need to know all this stuff just to use the PC. Then again what would you do if your windows machine broke? If there weren't shops which you could leave in broken (Windows) PCs and not have to think, you'd be kinda screwed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭nadir


    blacknight wrote:

    DO NOT try:
    Slackware
    Gentoo
    Debian

    Although you may hear a lot about the above they are not really suited to beginners.

    hehe, i disagree, if your going to learn linux, go for it full on, no point in half measures imo.

    I guess it boils down to how much you want to learn, if you just want to use email, web stuff and services without getting into the innards do as blacknight said and follow his recommendation.

    But if you really want to learn Grab the gentoo live cd and install. ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭MarVeL


    Thanks for all the tips guys. Looking at either Mandrake or Fedora so far (I know I'm chicken but I don't fancy the learning curve of Gentoo et al).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭theciscokid


    Mandrake 10..

    then after a while (when you're comfortable) try debian


  • Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Diddy Kong


    But if you really want to learn Grab the gentoo live cd and install
    send to that, but if your too chicken to learn loads, mandrake 10, its fast and easy


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,335 ✭✭✭Cake Fiend


    A bit too easy if you ask me - I find Mandrake makes people lazy. I've known several people to install Mandrake to 'try linux' who then don't actually learn bugger all about linux due to Mandrake's ease of use - it does everything for you!. It's a great distro for what it does, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't reccommend it for someone who really wants to learn linux. Last time I installed Slackware (Slackware 10 is out now btw), I cried at how easy it was, recalling what I had to do in the bad old days to get a linux distro installed. Anyone could have done it after 10 minutes of howto reading. Same with Debian, and Debian has the n00b-friendly advantage of apt.


  • Registered Users Posts: 763 ✭✭✭Dar


    Originally Posted by blacknight

    DO NOT try:
    Slackware
    Gentoo
    Debian

    Although you may hear a lot about the above they are not really suited to beginners.


    I'd have to disagree as well. I started with slackware, and I still consider it the most straightforward distribution around. Other distrubutions try and protect you from the 'hard' stuff with GUIs, but the 'hard' stuff isn't actually that hard. You just have to get used to using the setup files. And all the standard files included with slackware are HEAVILY commented, so if you have half a brain you'll have no problem figuring out what each of them does.

    If you want my advice, I'd say install slack using the full option, set that up how you want it, and use it for a few weeks. Once you have some experience you'll be in a much better position to decide what you really want. Trust me - you'll learn more in those few weeks using slack, than a year or two using fedora, etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,293 ✭✭✭OfflerCrocGod


    MarVeL wrote:
    I don't fancy the learning curve of Gentoo et al
    The documentation available at gentoo's site is perfect for installing all you afto do is read through the x86 installation guide and you should have no prob with it ( have a copy of it available during the install so you can consult it ). In the end with gentoo you can dirty your hands, Mandrake is for.....well windows ppl, really I think it's as brainless as windows. Gentoo 4ever Homiez :cool:


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,958 ✭✭✭Chad ghostal


    id have to go with slackware aswell, i started with SuSe but found as sico said, when the distro does everything for you, your not actually learning how to do anything and when you actually have to do something hard, its too much of a learning curve..

    slackwares simple, has a nice gui but still makes you do stuff that will help you learn, and nothing is seriously hard even for a newb.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭mneylon


    Dar wrote:
    I'd have to disagree as well. I started with slackware, and I still consider it the most straightforward distribution around. Other distrubutions try and protect you from the 'hard' stuff with GUIs, but the 'hard' stuff isn't actually that hard. You just have to get used to using the setup files. And all the standard files included with slackware are HEAVILY commented, so if you have half a brain you'll have no problem figuring out what each of them does.

    If you want my advice, I'd say install slack using the full option, set that up how you want it, and use it for a few weeks. Once you have some experience you'll be in a much better position to decide what you really want. Trust me - you'll learn more in those few weeks using slack, than a year or two using fedora, etc.
    Rubbish
    Slackware puts files in very odd places and makes maintenance of a system a real PITA compared to RH variants, MDK or debian.
    We have servers and desktops running most variants of *nix and the most awkward to maintain is the one running slackware.
    Learning != getting a headache


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 157 ✭✭BenH


    Seconded, although slack was the first distro I installed way back when, it is not suitable for a newbie or in a production enviroment.

    Personally I really like Suse, support is excellent and the management tools superb, heck I like it so much I'm dual booting 200 machines with it for tuesday.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,148 ✭✭✭✭Raskolnikov


    Keep away from FreeBSD too, the range of hardware supported by it is rather limited, I'm reasonably experienced in Unix but had a nightmare trying to find and setup a driver for my network card (it still doesn't even work as I want it to).

    Red Hat is nice and user friendly, Knoppix is also handy for complete Linux beginners.

    Don't confuse things, FreeBSD is not in anyway associated with Linux, so the mention of it in this thread is irrelavant.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,335 ✭✭✭Cake Fiend


    Hrm, maybe we need a poll :)

    I suppose it comes down to how much you want to learn about the inner workings of linux.

    If you want to learn the absolute bare minimum, have the OS do everything for you, and get hold of an OS that's easier to install than Windows, go for Mandrake. I have a pet hate for Mandrake, having had so many mates and colleagues asking my how to do x, y or z with it without bothering to learn themselves!

    The next step up (barely, RH distros tend to be very newbie-friendly as well) would be something like Fedora. I haven't used RH since 9.0, but I hear good things about Fedora. I'm also not a big fan of the RPM system, especially having been introduced to Debian's apt, but then again I used to prefer to install from source on RH systems anyway. I've never used Suse for long, so I can't comment on it, but Suse users seem to like it.

    Up one more step would be Debian or Slackware, Debian being the easier to maintain (apt). Slackware has always been a firm favourite with me for a desktop and learning system, being one of the first distros I installed way back when. They used to say that if you run Red Hat, you'll learn Red Hat; if you run Debian, you'll learn Debian; but if you run Slackware, you'll learn linux :) Yeah, it's a bit unorthadox, but it's great to learn with and once you've learnt the Slack way of doing things, you'll have no trouble with any other distro you use.

    If you really want to get meaty, get a hold of Gentoo :eek: You'll automatically grow a beard just by installing this OS.

    An easy way to get quickly acquainted with linux would be to download one of the many 'live' CDs (Knoppix would be my preference) and play with it for a while. You can usually install a full system from one of these CDs if you choose to.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 157 ✭✭BenH


    Sico wrote:
    If you really want to get meaty, get a hold of Gentoo :eek: You'll automatically grow a beard just by installing this OS.

    Since when has Gentoo been harder than slack. Sure you'll grow a beard with gentoo, but thats more due to waiting for glibc to compile :D

    Im surprised no-one has recommended Solaris for the x86 yet, perfect if your a fan of Java (a really big fan!) and dont particularly care for a dual boot system, cause solaris sure doesnt.

    Heck lets forget about linux totally. What you really want to learn on is AIX, you can play about with linux once your out of the nuthouse after paying big blue several hundred euros for a mouse :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,763 ✭✭✭Fenster


    Well I certainly have a fuzz of stubble from using Fedora. :confused:


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  • Moderators Posts: 5,554 ✭✭✭Azza


    I'm newish to linux and my first 3 distrabutions where eh Slackware Gentoo and Debain how abotu that :)

    Must say have had difficulty with Gentoo and Debain but slackware was the one I liked the best and easist to use and I also tried Red Hat 9.0.


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭halenger


    BenH wrote:
    Im surprised no-one has recommended Solaris for the x86 yet, perfect if your a fan of Java (a really big fan!) and dont particularly care for a dual boot system, cause solaris sure doesnt.

    "Solaris sucks". :) I could quote many other of my friends and their Solaris experiences. I've not a newb really. I've been using linux more or less for about 7 years and very regularly for the last 3. I use Debian entierly but that's me etc.

    Solaris is not fun in my experiences. It's different from linux, like BSD is different. But that's not a problem in itself. I never successfully installed it. Neither version 7 or 8 liked any of my computers (think I tried it on 3). When Prodigy (Sparc server) was Redbrick's (DCU NetSoc) main server I really grew to loathe Solaris. Though I still wanted to install it to give it a go and try to learn it etc. Every admin I ever talked to about it said "don't bother" etc. That it was no good and pretty pointless to install it on x86 as it was really built for Sparc. Thankfully we're now running the (almost) twin Poweredges on Debian. So I'm a happy bunny. :p

    As for beginners. Hrmm... I started off with SUSE personally. I got it free on a magazine CD, as one does. Moved onto Redhat (5 I think it was), messed around with a few others (Mandrake was dismal back then. It just didn't work properly. Installed nicely and fancy and very Windows easy like but basic things didn't work so I'll never touch it again). Settled on Storm until they stopped making it (Debian clone) and then onto Debian and have been Debian since. The new installer is a vast improvement and is still being improved pending Sarge's upgrade to Woody. (Sarge = testing, Woody = stable)

    A live CD seems to be a good way to go to get your claws into it and now wipe your PC etc by accident. :) Play around with it, a lot. If you insist on installing I guess Mandrake seems to have improved (from other peoples opinions). I like to dive in at the deep end a bit more though. I don't really think Debian's new installer is much more complicated than anything else out there...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 157 ✭✭BenH


    halenger wrote:
    "Solaris sucks". :) I could quote many other of my friends and their Solaris experiences. I've not a newb really. I've been using linux more or less for about 7 years and very regularly for the last 3. I use Debian entierly but that's me etc.

    Solaris has 'issues' especially with the x86 port, however running on sun hardware it is a very good unix with the edge just over linux in regards to stability, at least until 2.6 matures or 10 really delivers, and security. Also the tools that are likely to ship with 10 such as dtrace look to make it very interesting for the enterprise enviroment. Theres also the issue of running Oracle, iirc only SLES8, 9 and the next release of RHES are certified to it.

    As allways its the best tool for the job that must be chosen, and linux isnt quite yet the best tool for every job.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭nadir


    blacknight wrote:
    The question is what is suitable for a newbie, not what is a "better" package management system

    erm, that's what I was saying. I think portage is a much more user friendly system than rpm and you will learn lots more in the process.

    My point is if you want to learn linux properly , but still want to be able to do it in a user friendly enviornment go for gentoo.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 157 ✭✭BenH


    Theres no such thing as learning linux properly, heck glorious leader is rumoured to use Suse, and I think that Linus knows linux a little better than all of us combined :).

    The commercial distros are ideal if you just want a linux enviroment that you can get working and just use with the minimum of fuss or require the possibility of commercial support and gurantees. And at the sametime avoid the Xp competitors such as Xandros or Linspire.

    Community distributions such as gentoo tend to be picked up after people have gotten comfortable with the way things are done in the *nix world and either have plenty of time on their hands or have a very specific need to have a highly optimised system.


  • Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭gnu


    I'm a Linux beginner and I've set up various versions of Red Hat and Mandrake with no probs. Didn't feel I learned as much as I'd have liked though. I'm looking at Suse next.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭Emboss


    It's time for a sticky on this as it's getting rather boring.

    no one can tell you what to use no one here knows you better than you.

    get a few cd's install/setup and stick with the one that does what you want.


    As for staying away from FreeBSD, It's what I started on and never looked back,
    never had any hardware issues from old 386's to the latest and greatest

    We have no idea what problems you might come across with YOUR hardware or YOUR brain or lack of.

    Experiment and google.....


  • Moderators Posts: 5,554 ✭✭✭Azza


    Just had to post something in this forum as its my first time online on a linux system. Man I feel so proud!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭ishnid


    gnu wrote:
    I'm a Linux beginner and I've set up various versions of Red Hat and Mandrake with no probs. Didn't feel I learned as much as I'd have liked though. I'm looking at Suse next.

    If the reason you're switching from a distro like RH or Mandrake is to learn more, SuSE wouldn't really be the logical choice. SuSE has an excellent GUI-based configuration system (YaST2) but for as for learning more, I'd recommend (as has been done in this thread) Debian, Slackware or Gentoo. I'm running Gentoo at the moment and the community over in the forums at www.gentoo.org is excellent. So good, in fact, that I haven't actually had to post any questions there yet, 'cause they all seem to be answered somewhere already.

    Edit: Bloody 'ell. I knew I'd registered here ages ago but hadn't realised this is actually my first post.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,482 ✭✭✭RE*AC*TOR


    Have to say, try Yoper. A little bit less user friendly with the install but its really nice once its installed.


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