An open letter from Boards.ie to Minister Sean Sherlock

ResearchWill · 26-01-2012 9:03pm

Voy wrote: »

Have any of the big internet companies weighed in on this? I'm sure a quick statement from Google or Facebook would be nice and effective. May be worth emailing them too.

No, not to my knowledge, and unless anyone can point to a statement from either, I would say because it's a non issue, it's nothing like the SOPA in the USA.

Splinter · 26-01-2012 9:03pm

Signed, 51477

thanks all for raising it to more public eye

Mark

CMpunked · 26-01-2012 9:03pm

Voy wrote: »

Have any of the big internet companies weighed in on this? I'm sure a quick statement from Google or Facebook would be nice and effective. May be worth emailing them too.

Mark Zuckerberg's opinion of SOPA from a week ago should be enough.

ResearchWill · 26-01-2012 9:05pm

Meteoric wrote: »

Like I said I'm not an expert, I only know the SIs relevant to my job but I do look at the SIs that impact my work and read them. In my case they are word-for-word, I never said they had to be and in this case it could not be. I read the consultation documents sent out by the EU and I read the industry and other responses. I see how wording is changed, either by making it more or less specific in response to questions or observations raised by the people who will have to live with the legislation, that to me is good practice.
Article 8 3 is very non specific, simply that the country must have a mechanism for injunction, leaving it up to individual countries how they do that. So each country has to come up with their own way, fair enough and an example of something well written as it allows each country to take their own situation and existing laws into account.
The SI as published does meet the requirement, yes, but that is simply that there be a mechanism. As others who will be impacted by this have said the proposed wording of the Irish SI is so vague that it could be used to make their business unworkable. That there is bad legislation in my opinion. And when the industry points out that it does allow something like nuisance suits the response should not be "A sure, no one will do that"

Ireland has very clear laws on injunctions. Ireland thought it complied with the law, untill Charleton J said it had not. So a simple statement in a SI to say it does apply is all that is required.

It will be necessary to in every case for an injunction to provide an undertaking for damages, as only copyright holders can get the injunction I can not see people just taking bad injunctions and if they do it will cost them a fortune.

daRobot · 26-01-2012 9:06pm

Emailed Sherlock, signed the petition. Ready to protest if necessary.

ItHurtsWhenIP · 26-01-2012 9:09pm

Signed petition and e-mailed Sherlock, Bruton and my TDs.

Hope this works.

ResearchWill · 26-01-2012 9:10pm

CMpunked wrote: »

Mark Zuckerberg's opinion of SOPA from a week ago should be enough.

And how is this SI anything like the SOPA please link to how they are the same. Just because people have called it Ireland's SOPA does not make it so. I'm Ireland's Brad Pitt then.

nesf · 26-01-2012 9:11pm

ResearchWill wrote: »

And how is this SI anything like the SOPA please link to how they are the same. Just because people have called it Ireland's SOPA does not make it so. I'm Ireland's Brad Pitt then.

Indeed, the Irish SOPA thing is way overblown and pure marketing really.

flynnlives · 26-01-2012 9:12pm

This will be discussed on primetime tonight.

Meteoric · 26-01-2012 9:12pm

ResearchWill wrote: »

Ireland has very clear laws on injunctions. Ireland thought it complied with the law, untill Charleton J said it had not. So a simple statement in a SI to say it does apply is all that is required.

Again fair enough, but what is being rushed through does not seem like a simple statement to me, people who work in the industry and some lawyers I've seen talking about the wording. We do need a law, we do not need bad law and avoiding one court case by rushing through bad legislation is not good practice.

ResearchWill · 26-01-2012 9:19pm

Meteoric wrote: »

Again fair enough, but what is being rushed through does not seem like a simple statement to me, people who work in the industry and some lawyers I've seen talking about the wording. We do need a law, we do not need bad law and avoiding one court case by rushing through bad legislation is not good practice.

I have also seen lawyers say they did not know how the minister could bring this in by SI, the 1972 Act has been around for 40 years what lawyer would not know that most directives come in by way of SI.

If the law is bad, then it will be challenged in the High Court and if needs be will be struck down. My own opinion of our Dail is they could not pass a good well written Act if we paid them, which we do and they still don't. But I am still waiting for someone to show me how this SI is illegal or does not reflect the directive or goes beyond the directive.

To be honest I bet most people have not read the 1972 Act, the directive and the SI, but yet have opinions on it. No wonder this country went property mad despite the evidence to the contrary. Please anyone a good argument why this SI is wrong any well thought out argument please.

craddy96 · 26-01-2012 9:20pm

Hey guys, I found this user, I think he/she/they are new, but they are the first Irish Anonymous Twitter account that I've seen?

Anyway, I think it'd be a good idea to help 'em, let's follow their account, shall we?

Link here --> https://twitter.com/#!/Anonymous_Eire

colly10 · 26-01-2012 9:20pm

flynnlives wrote: »

This will be discussed on primetime tonight.

Where do you see this, I can't see any mention of it on the primetime site?

craddy96 · 26-01-2012 9:21pm

And here's the link!

https://twitter.com/#!/Anonymous_Eire

flynnlives · 26-01-2012 9:22pm

Where do you see this, I can't see any mention of it on the primetime site?

on Miriam o'callaghans twitter

Citizen_Kane · 26-01-2012 9:23pm

What we are seeing today smells of a co-ordinated and massive assault on the internet. Within 5 days SOPA and PIPA were successfully stalled, ACTA signed in Japan and 'Sherlockgate' unfolds.

The entertainment industry is not playing softly. They mean business, and who could blame them. Their redundant distribution model is still yeilding record profits but it's rate of growth is slowing down thanks to a new decentralised, democratic medium.

What my real concern is, is the apparent willingness of our ruler.... oops!, leaders to facilitate the financial interests of one industry. It is reminicent of the knee jerk militant action taken against the earliest Gutenberg printing press houses. They are at risk of setting Ireland, and humanity, back to the dark ages.

At this point you could insert any number of conspiracy theories, but I think that it is just plain lack of perspective and tunnel vision. Who cares about freedom, democracy and our environment when there is a recession? One look at Sherlock's 'doe in the headlights'

look tells me this is true (unless he is on the take!).

Anyway - I have been emailing and phoning various TD's. I think that the focus of messages to them should stay on the theme of freedom and democracy. If enough people raise these points, these may rightfully become the fulcrum of debate.

In case you are wondering, of all the TD's 5 have read, responded and engaged in email thread conversation - so yes, email does work. Be polite, be intelligent and make your case.

WatchWolf · 26-01-2012 9:25pm

Is the petition even going to do anything?

Billy Bunting · 26-01-2012 9:26pm

Very shocked to hear about this gagging order at such a late hour, will be emailing all in my contacts to sign this petition. I also will be ready to protest if necessary. I've had a *ucking belly full!!!

craddy96 · 26-01-2012 9:27pm

WatchWolf wrote: »

Is the petition even going to do anything?

That's the spirit

ResearchWill · 26-01-2012 9:29pm

I am still awaiting any good logical argument about why this SI is illegal or indeed why it's wrong to allow copyright holder to protect their property by way of injunction.

If anyone comes up with a good argument I will sign the petition.

mystic86 · 26-01-2012 9:31pm

Nice one Boards, I'm impressed

DeVore · 26-01-2012 9:33pm

MOH wrote: »

Sherlock's site now back up, with the "offending" elements removed.

Wouldn't be surprised if the new icons also turned out to be lifted from somewhere else, given the level of sense he's shown so far.

Maybe someone should send a screenshot of the old version of his site to the relevant copyright holders.

Turns out... other things may breach copyright on his site.

https://sites.google.com/site/seansherlocktdsopa/

ophelia75 · 26-01-2012 9:34pm

signed

DeVore · 26-01-2012 9:35pm

ResearchWill wrote: »

I am still awaiting any good logical argument about why this SI is illegal or indeed why it's wrong to allow copyright holder to protect their property by way of injunction.

If anyone comes up with a good argument I will sign the petition.

I put some of our concerns in the first post.

Would it be wrong, in your opinion, to nuke a whole town to kill a paedophile who was known to be there at the time?

Ste05 · 26-01-2012 9:38pm

Great work boards.ie and DeV. Hopefully Minister Sherlock phones DeV it'll be interesting to hear how that goes.

brianwalshcork · 26-01-2012 9:38pm

Signed

ResearchWill · 26-01-2012 9:40pm

DeVore wrote: »

I put some of our concerns in the first post.

Would it be wrong, in your opinion, to nuke a whole town to kill a paedophile who was known to be there at the time?

And can you show how this amendment to a Act from 2000 in anyway allows anyone to nuke a tow or more importantly the Internet. This type of injunction was thought to exist in Ireland since 2000, and does exist in the rest of the EU can you point to any country in EU who has implemented this directive where the Internet no longer exists.

dl · 26-01-2012 9:41pm

Great stuff... I'm signed up!

WatchWolf · 26-01-2012 9:42pm

craddy96 wrote: »

That's the spirit

That doesn't answer my question.

ibFoxer · 26-01-2012 9:43pm

Citizen_Kane wrote: »

What we are seeing today smells of a co-ordinated and massive assault on the internet. Within 5 days SOPA and PIPA were successfully stalled, ACTA signed in Japan and 'Sherlockgate' unfolds.

The entertainment industry is not playing softly. They mean business, and who could blame them. Their redundant distribution model is still yeilding record profits but it's rate of growth is slowing down thanks to a new decentralised, democratic medium.

What my real concern is, is the apparent willingness of our ruler.... oops!, leaders to facilitate the financial interests of one industry. It is reminicent of the knee jerk militant action taken against the earliest Gutenberg printing press houses. They are at risk of setting Ireland, and humanity, back to the dark ages.

At this point you could insert any number of conspiracy theories, but I think that it is just plain lack of perspective and tunnel vision. Who cares about freedom, democracy and our environment when there is a recession? One look at Sherlock's 'doe in the headlights' look tells me this is true (unless he is on the take!).

Anyway - I have been emailing and phoning various TD's. I think that the focus of messages to them should stay on the theme of freedom and democracy. If enough people raise these points, these may rightfully become the fulcrum of debate.

In case you are wondering, of all the TD's 5 have read, responded and engaged in email thread conversation - so yes, email does work. Be polite, be intelligent and make your case.

As a matter of interest, could you either post or inbox me the email you sent? I am hoping to sit down with Alan Kelly tomorrow/Monday and Noel Coonan asap. Have tried to get in touch with Michael Lowry but to no avail

An open letter from Boards.ie to Minister Sean Sherlock

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