Trinity BEGGING for money

Fo Real · 06-05-2011 2:41pm #1

I was reading politics.ie when I noticed an ad at the bottom of the page aimed at Trinity graduates. I clicked on it, leading to this site. It contains four videos of Trinity students begging for donations to fund such charities as the Trinity Access Program, to allow "disadvantaged" kids into college. Can't get enough points or just couldn't be arsed studying? No problem, move into the council flats on Pearse St and you're guaranteed a place in Trinners.

As if working class people don't get enough money thrown at them in the form of grants and paid tuition fees. Ireland has become a socialist hellhole, subsidising the gravy train lifestyles of lazy slobs while punishing hard working taxpayers and entrepreneurs. And yet the college will still wastefully squander funds on needless expenses like class rep training and ethnic minority societies. Will the new Provost make the neccessary changes to balance the college budget? Doubtfully. Instead I predict another influx of "cash cow" students from Malaysia and India who don't integrate into college life at all. Can Trinity's rep fall any further?

Wolfe Tone · 06-05-2011 2:42pm

Not a fan of poorer people and foreigners then?

06-05-2011 2:48pm

Fo Real wrote: »

No problem, move into the council flats on Pearse St and you're guaranteed a place in Trinners.

Except that's not true at all

Fo Real wrote: »

As if working class people don't get enough money thrown at them in the form of grants and paid tuition fees.

In case you hadn't noticed, middle and upper class get their tuition fees paid too

Fo Real wrote: »

Can Trinity's rep fall any further?

Yeah all them foreigners and poor people are just destroying Trinity's reputation

amacachi · 06-05-2011 2:48pm

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Not a fan of poorer people and foreigners then?

If you were in Trinity you'd see that the TAP is a joke in some cases. Equalising things is fine, giving someone an advantage because they're poor isn't.

Fo Real · 06-05-2011 2:48pm

@Wolfe Tone
1. You've replied so quick that you obviously haven't watched any of the videos.

2. You're not even a TCD student/alumnus. Are you just envious that the British founded the most successful univeristy in Ireland and that the Queen has chosen to grace us with her presence? Take your anti-Brit bashing elsewhere. You get your ass handed to you in every thread in AH.

Now back on topic.

amacachi · 06-05-2011 2:50pm

Fo Real wrote: »

Will the new Provost make the neccessary changes to balance the college budget?

How much of a deficit is TCD running?

Cavehill Red · 06-05-2011 2:50pm

Just to clarify:
Is your topic that you don't like universities fundraising, or is it that you don't like poor people, or is it that you wish Ireland was British?

amacachi · 06-05-2011 2:52pm

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Just to clarify:
Is your topic that you don't like universities fundraising, or is it that you don't like poor people, or is it that you wish Ireland was British?

Think it's brown people the OP doesn't like.

g'em · 06-05-2011 2:54pm

amacachi wrote: »

If you were in Trinity you'd see that the TAP is a joke in some cases.

What makes you say that?

Fo Real · 06-05-2011 2:54pm

amacachi wrote: »

How much of a deficit is TCD running?

"One election candidate (Prof Des Fitzgerald) suggested the college deficit could exceed €100 million within five years" from http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0404/1224293735891.html

We're in bad shape, to put it lightly.

amacachi · 06-05-2011 2:55pm

g'em wrote: »

What makes you say that?

At least one specific case. Obviously not going to go into massive details about an individual on a public forum but it's sickening that someone who had the same reasons for TAP that I fall under has had so much thrown at them that I and many others haven't.

Wolfe Tone · 06-05-2011 2:57pm

Fo Real wrote: »

@Wolfe Tone
1. You've replied so quick that you obviously haven't watched any of the videos.

2. You're not even a TCD student/alumnus. Are you just envious that the British founded the most successful univeristy in Ireland and that the Queen has chosen to grace us with her presence? Take your anti-Brit bashing elsewhere. You get your ass handed to you in every thread in AH.

Now back on topic.

I've nothing against trinity at all.

amacachi · 06-05-2011 2:57pm

Fo Real wrote: »

"One election candidate (Prof Des Fitzgerald) suggested the college deficit could exceed €100 million within five years" from http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0404/1224293735891.html

We're in bad shape, to put it lightly.

I think it'll be 200 million. Words are cheap.
Have you a link showing the deficit being run right now?

g'em · 06-05-2011 2:58pm

amacachi wrote: »

At least one specific case. Obviously not going to go into massive details about an individual on a public forum but it's sickening that someone who had the same reasons for TAP that I fall under has had so much thrown at them that I and many others haven't.

I don't know that there's anything "thrown at" TAP students, and the application process is fairly stringent. Fair enough if you feel hard done by that you didn't get accepted (did you apply?) but I can absolutely guarantee you that the vast, vast majority of people who do TAP are fighting their corners like any other prospective student and in many cases would never ever have had teh chance to attend Third Level education otherwise.

amacachi · 06-05-2011 3:02pm

g'em wrote: »

I don't know that there's anything "thrown at" TAP students, and the application process is fairly stringent. Fair enough if you feel hard done by that you didn't get accepted (did you apply?) but I can absolutely guarantee you that the vast, vast majority of people who do TAP are fighting their corners like any other prospective student and in many cases would never ever have had teh chance to attend Third Level education otherwise.

Extra time in exams, a year of dicking about before actually starting the course, extra help etc. As well as the reduced points obviously.

I didn't apply for TAP because I didn't know about it, I do know that I couldn't apply for HEAR though, apparently my school was removed from the eligible list the year before I started in TCD.

kthnxbai · 06-05-2011 3:04pm

Fo Real wrote: »

to allow "disadvantaged" kids into college. Can't get enough points or just couldn't be arsed studying?

As if working class people don't get enough money thrown at them in the form of grants and paid tuition fees. Ireland has become a socialist hellhole, subsidising the gravy train lifestyles of lazy slobs while punishing hard working taxpayers and entrepreneurs.

You are actually being completely ridiculous.

Not everyone who's on the access programme or that gets the grant is lazy/can't get enough points. I got 100 points more than I needed to get into my course. Sure, I didn't apply for the access scheme, because I didn't feel that I needed it, but I do get the maintenance grant.

I resent the fact that you claim that people who are on government grants get stuff "thrown" at them... If it weren't for the grant, there would be absolutely no way for me to go to college at all. I work just as hard as anyone else and I'm just as entitled to go to college as anyone else is.

There is a reason why the government pays my fees for me. It's because I can't. And just because I wasn't as lucky as someone else to be born into a family with slightly better circumstances does not mean I shouldn't have the same opportunites as someone else.

Stop being immature and have a bit of empathy for christ sake. It's not exactly easy trying to live on 25 quid a week.

g'em · 06-05-2011 3:10pm

amacachi wrote: »

Extra time in exams, a year of dicking about before actually starting the course, extra help etc. As well as the reduced points obviously.

Only students who are registered with the disability service get extra time. You're vetted thoroughly and only put on the register if a genuine reason exists that qualifies you, I can absolutely vouch for that.

And as for the year dicking about for a year, well I can 100% guarantee that's not the case. TAP students study full-time and sit Annual Examinations alongside all other Trinity students and are subject to the very same marking scheme, rules and regulations.

And reduced points?? Ha! Not a hope!

amacachi · 06-05-2011 3:10pm

kthnxbai wrote: »

There is a reason why the government pays my fees for me. It's because I can't. And just because I wasn't as lucky as someone else to be born into a family with slightly better circumstances does not mean I shouldn't have the same opportunites as someone else.

So someone else should have to pay?

KH25 · 06-05-2011 3:11pm

I was in the TAP program, albeit the Liberties College arm of it, and I didn't just get anything thrown at me. I had to work hard for a year in order to get the grades necessary for me to have chance of getting the course I wanted. I went to a bad school and despite working as hard as I can I didn't get the points for the course I wanted. So just because of that I shouldn't have a shot at college? I'm in final year now so clearly I was more than able to hold my own, regardless of what the leaving cert said.

Now, I'll happily admit that the course is not perfect and there's many things that I think need to be changed but the course still does some good work. I have several friends who have completed the course and gone on to be very successful in their academic careers. Without programs like TAP a lot of people with great potential would have no chance at getting into college just because of their backgrounds or their leaving cert results.

amacachi · 06-05-2011 3:11pm

g'em wrote: »

Only students who are registered with the disability service get extra time. You're vetted thoroughly and only put on the register if a genuine reason exists that qualifies you, I can absolutely vouch for that.

And as for the year dicking about for a year, well I can 100% guarantee that's not the case. TAP students study full-time and sit Annual Examinations alongside all other Trinity students and are subject to the very same marking scheme, rules and regulations.

And reduced points?? Ha! Not a hope!

Well then someone who's on the access programme is full of shit and certainly seems to be financially pretty damn well-off.

kthnxbai · 06-05-2011 3:11pm

amacachi wrote: »

So someone else should have to pay?

Trust me, I will more than pay back the money in tax within a few years of me working

Or would you rather I didn't try to further myself whatsoever?

revz · 06-05-2011 3:13pm

I sort of agree with you on the TAP in a way, although your view would be a bit more extreme than mine. I'm all for giving disadvantaged students free grinds and stuff if they can't afford it. But throwing free points at them is completely unfair.
I went to a HEAR linked school, but didn't apply cos I think my parents earn too much. What do their jobs have to do with how intelligent I am?
I think it almost belittles people's intelligence just because they're from a disadvantaged area. We all sit the same exams.
(Basing this on a specific case I know of in which someone got around 80 points less than the requirement and still got in to the course.)

Like I said, completely fine with grants/tuition and that; that's needed. Just the points thing is what I have an issue with.

KH25 · 06-05-2011 3:13pm

amacachi wrote: »

So someone else should have to pay?

So somebody should only be able to go to college based on their ability to pay?

Fo Real · 06-05-2011 3:15pm

To put this into context: The State owned company Bord Gáis decided to write off the debts of people who were in arrears and couldn't pay their gas bills. They got free gas, essentially. But what about the poor family who struggled to pay their bills every month, but lived frugally and still scraped enough money together to pay them. They are of course going to feel like suckers. The message this sends out is "refuse to pay your bills and you'll eventually be let off the hook." Link for those who don't read the papers

The same logic can be applied to those students who work part-time jobs to fund themselves through college and those who sit on their asses because they know they'll get a grant. I'll say it again - Ireland is a socialist hellhole. What other country has free third level education and pays out over €180 in dole every week?

amacachi · 06-05-2011 3:18pm

kthnxbai wrote: »

Trust me, I will more than pay back the money in tax within a few years of me working

Or would you rather I didn't try to further myself whatsoever?

Yes, I'd rather everyone sat around in a heroin haze the whole time. Such ridiculous questions don't further your point. A proper loans system would be the fairest way to do it and would probably level the playing field somewhat as a fair few parents would keep the cash for college rather than for secondary school.

revz wrote: »

I sort of agree with you on the TAP in a way, although your view would be a bit more extreme than mine. I'm all for giving disadvantaged students free grinds and stuff if they can't afford it. But throwing free points at them is completely unfair.
I went to a HEAR linked school, but didn't apply cos I think my parents earn too much. What do their jobs have to do with how intelligent I am?
I think it almost belittles people's intelligence just because they're from a disadvantaged area. We all sit the same exams.
(Basing this on a specific case I know of in which someone got around 80 points less than the requirement and still got in to the course.)

Like I said, completely fine with grants/tuition and that; that's needed. Just the points thing is what I have an issue with.

It's a sickner. My parents are unemployed and I don't see how that should affect my academic prowess.

KH25 wrote: »

So somebody should only be able to go to college based on their ability to pay?

Yup, that's what I said, well done.

bradyle · 06-05-2011 3:19pm

But the points is because in a disadvantaged area you are more likely to go to a worse school and so get worse points even if you have high ability...and once your there you have to pass all the same exam as those who didnt get in so if they aren't fit for it they'll drop out...

Oh and fo real what about people like me who are on the grant and still need to work everyweekend to go to college...am i still lazy...you cant say all people who get a grant are same as you cant say people who dont get a grant have to work harder...that is pure BS

kthnxbai · 06-05-2011 3:19pm

Fo Real wrote: »

The same logic can be applied to those students who work part-time jobs to fund themselves through college and those who sit on their asses because they know they'll get a grant. I'll say it again - Ireland is a socialist hellhole. What other country has free third level education and pays out over €180 in dole every week?

First of all, I do engineering. I have worked a part-time job as much as I can. Financially, college is still a huge struggle for me. I have worked every summer. I don't spend money mindlessly, I'm very careful about what I spend.

And feck off with your 180 quid a week. That's if you're on BTEA. The FULL grant for adjancent is 1300 quid a year.

You try living on 1300 a year ffs.

amacachi · 06-05-2011 3:20pm

Fo Real wrote: »

To put this into context: The State owned company Bord Gáis decided to write off the debts of people who were in arrears and couldn't pay their gas bills. They got free gas, essentially. But what about the poor family who struggled to pay their bills every month, but lived frugally and still scraped enough money together to pay them. They are of course going to feel like suckers. The message this sends out is "refuse to pay your bills and you'll eventually be let off the hook." Link for those who don't read the papers

The same logic can be applied to those students who work part-time jobs to fund themselves through college and those who sit on their asses because they know they'll get a grant. I'll say it again - Ireland is a socialist hellhole. What other country has free third level education and pays out over €180 in dole every week?

Fancy getting me a link showing the deficit TCD is currently running any time soon instead of some faux right-wing snippets of what you probably think is an argument?

amacachi · 06-05-2011 3:22pm

bradyle wrote: »

But the points is because in a disadvantaged area you are more likely to go to a worse school and so get worse points even if you have high ability...and once your there you have to pass all the same exam as those who didnt get in so if they aren't fit for it they'll drop out...

I think there were 10 people ended up doing honours maths out of about 120 in my year in 6th year, about 20 did foundation Irish and maths and at least 10 were exempted from Irish. I managed alright.

g'em · 06-05-2011 3:23pm

amacachi wrote: »

Well then someone who's on the access programme is full of shit and certainly seems to be financially pretty damn well-off.

I can't comment at all on anyone's financial status and in all honesty I don't know what kind of maintenance grant they have available to them, but I do know that grants have been massively reduced in recent years and it's tough for a lot of students to get by.

If these students are granted entry to college they are treated the very same way as any other student would be academically, in fact their TAP "status" is left behind as soon as they enter JF - no special treatment, no exceptions.

I'm sure there are students on the course that it's very arguable whose place could have been given to a more deserving case but for the majority they work hard to get on TAP, work hard to stay on it and work hard to get into college like any other student and they're completely on their own once they get there.

kthnxbai · 06-05-2011 3:25pm

amacachi wrote: »

I think there were 10 people ended up doing honours maths out of about 120 in my year in 6th year, about 20 did foundation Irish and maths and at least 10 were exempted from Irish. I managed alright.

Yeah, like I went to a **** school, but still did really well in my LC. I think she's just making the point that being from a disadvantaged area can make it more difficult to do well, just because you don't have the same facilities as some others may have.

Personally, I didn't apply for Access because I didn't WANT to get into my course on reduced points (not to mention that I also didn't really need it). But financially, I can't manage without help.

Trinity BEGGING for money

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