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Becoming a Real Runner

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Comments

  • #1682
    claralara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,663 ✭✭✭claralara


    Don't think I'm going to get out of work in time to join you in UCD dude... :rolleyes:


  • #1683
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    claralara wrote: »
    Don't think I'm going to get out of work in time to join you in UCD dude... :rolleyes:

    When? Next week?

    And 'Dude'? :rolleyes: You've been hanging around with Digger and Mrslow too much :P


  • #1684
    claralara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,663 ✭✭✭claralara


    menoscemo wrote: »
    When? Next week?

    And 'Dude'? :rolleyes: You've been hanging around with Digger and Mrslow too much :P

    Or they've been hanging out with my cool dad too much...:rolleyes:


  • #1685
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    claralara wrote: »
    Or they've been hanging out with my cool dad too much...:rolleyes:

    I heard digger used to hang about with him back in the 60's, but I don't think they used 'dude' back then.


  • #1686
    TheRoadRunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,983 ✭✭✭TheRoadRunner


    Firstly tartan track wouldn't be great on legs due to bends. Secondly belfield is like a rock. Next time when you're at the Physio ask him would he recommend easy running on track. I bet he recommends the grass trails around UCD instead. I do remember you playing football out in maynooth with a dodgy foot that meant you couldn't run so maybe Ill just let you at it :)


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  • #1687
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    TheRoadRunner wrote: »
    Firstly tartan track wouldn't be great on legs due to bends. Secondly belfield is like a rock. Next time when you're at the Physio ask him would he recommend easy running on track. I bet he recommends the grass trails around UCD instead. I do remember you playing football out in maynooth with a dodgy foot that meant you couldn't run so maybe Ill just let you at it :)

    Thanks for the advice RR. Don't think i don't appreciate it. I know full well you have been running and hanging about running clubs since you were a nipper, so you just instinctively have all this kind of knowledge. I have only been running for a few years and always on my own, so I don't have a clue when it comes to injuroes, running surfaces etc.

    R.E. Maynooth- I don't think there was much wrong with me except a big belly from over eating and no training for a few weeks. I may have been using some kind of phantom injury as an excuse for not running, but I reckon it was more to do with my fear of not running a P.B. :pac:

    As an aside, I am supposed to be doing Mcmillan 10k workout no.2 this thursday (1 x 2miles + 4x 1 mile @10k pace). The calf feels fine now and I am planning a day off today to ensure I'm 100%. CF had said i should be ok by thursday but what would you do? go ahead on thursday, leave it till saturday or scrap the session for the week?


  • #1688
    TheRoadRunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,983 ✭✭✭TheRoadRunner


    menoscemo wrote: »
    I am supposed to be doing Mcmillan 10k workout no.2 this thursday (1 x 2miles + 4x 1 mile @10k pace). The calf feels fine now and I am planning a day off today to ensure I'm 100%. CF had said i should be ok by thursday but what would you do? go ahead on thursday, leave it till saturday or scrap the session for the week?

    I don't know to be honest, if the calf is 100% I would consider doing it but generally I'm ultra conservative these days. I've missed weeks and even months in the past by doing something that I shouldn't so you need to weigh up the risk/gain ratio. If there is even a tiny risk of injury don't do it. I did a session a few years back I shouldn't have and tweaked my hammer. Missed a month with it and the weakness in the hammer was evident for about 2-3 years afterward and effected my training in other ways. I suppose you could start the session but put the breaks on if you feel dodgy. It doesn't take much to pop a calf muscle though.

    In summary I don't know :)


  • #1689
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    menoscemo wrote: »
    As an aside, I am supposed to be doing Mcmillan 10k workout no.2 this thursday (1 x 2miles + 4x 1 mile @10k pace). The calf feels fine now and I am planning a day off today to ensure I'm 100%. CF had said i should be ok by thursday but what would you do? go ahead on thursday, leave it till saturday or scrap the session for the week?
    These are tough sessions (particularly if aiming for a reasonable 10k PB). Personally I would skip it, and do it next week if the schedule before your race allows it. You can skip one of the shorter interval session instead to make room for this session (e.g. 10-12x400, or 20x200m). Otherwise, Saturday is a safer bet.

    Those tight calfs/calf knots can quite easily lead to other injuries (like a tear in the tendon at the back of the knee), particularly when doing sessions. I lost three months in 2009 in similar circumstances (but my swimming and cycling came on in leaps and bounds!).


  • #1690
    shels4ever
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    Krusty_Clown wrote: »
    These are tough sessions (particularly if aiming for a reasonable 10k PB). Personally I would skip it, and do it next week if the schedule before your race allows it. You can skip one of the shorter interval session instead to make room for this session (e.g. 10-12x400, or 20x200m). Otherwise, Saturday is a safer bet.

    Those tight calfs/calf knots can quite easily lead to other injuries (like a tear in the tendon at the back of the knee), particularly when doing sessions. I lost three months in 2009 in similar circumstances (but my swimming and cycling came on in leaps and bounds!).
    + 1
    Don't forget that there is a Marathon been run also this week, so a bit of extra stress on the body. So better to be safe.


  • #1691
    TheRoadRunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,983 ✭✭✭TheRoadRunner


    shels4ever wrote: »
    + 1
    Don't forget that there is a Marathon been run also this week, so a bit of extra stress on the body. So better to be safe.

    didn't realise that. Don't do it 100%


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  • #1692
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    Krusty_Clown wrote: »
    These are tough sessions (particularly if aiming for a reasonable 10k PB). Personally I would skip it, and do it next week if the schedule before your race allows it. You can skip one of the shorter interval session instead to make room for this session (e.g. 10-12x400, or 20x200m). Otherwise, Saturday is a safer bet.

    Those tight calfs/calf knots can quite easily lead to other injuries (like a tear in the tendon at the back of the knee), particularly when doing sessions. I lost three months in 2009 in similar circumstances (but my swimming and cycling came on in leaps and bounds!).

    I haven't done any of the 10k specific ones at all. I'm Aiming for dunshaughlin too so if I skip this week, I have to go into doing 2 x 2mile + 2x 1 mile next week and then 3 x 2mile the following week.


  • #1693
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    shels4ever wrote: »
    + 1
    Don't forget that there is a Marathon been run also this week, so a bit of extra stress on the body. So better to be safe.

    The marathon isn't until monday (4 hour pacing) that's why i'd rather get the session done on thursday if at all.

    I find the slow marathons to be very little stress though. Last month I did 4 hour pacing in Limerick 6 days after running the salthill marathon in 3'55 (pacing too) with 2 speed sessions in between.


  • #1694
    digger2d2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭digger2d2


    menoscemo wrote: »
    The marathon isn't until monday (4 hour pacing) that's why i'd rather get the session done on thursday if at all.

    I find the slow marathons to be very little stress though. Last month I did 4 hour pacing in Limerick 6 days after running the salthill marathon in 3'55 (pacing too) with 2 speed sessions in between.

    Back of my hand for you next time I see you.....;)


  • #1695
    shels4ever
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    menoscemo wrote: »
    The marathon isn't until monday (4 hour pacing) that's why i'd rather get the session done on thursday if at all.

    I find the slow marathons to be very little stress though. Last month I did 4 hour pacing in Limerick 6 days after running the salthill marathon in 3'55 (pacing too) with 2 speed sessions in between.

    It's more the stress that the speed session might put on the calf prior to the Marathon that i'd be worried about, Each session needs to be looked at as part of the over all week/plan ;)


  • #1696
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    menoscemo wrote: »
    I haven't done any of the 10k specific ones at all. I'm Aiming for dunshaughlin too so if I skip this week, I have to go into doing 2 x 2mile + 2x 1 mile next week and then 3 x 2mile the following week.
    I wouldn't jump into the 2x2m + 2x1m, without first having done the initial session (6x1m). The series of sessions is designed as a progressive sequence, so if you don't do them in order, you likely won't realize the kind of benefits you should.

    Running marathons (even at a sub-optimal pace) could also hamper you ability to hit the 10k training sessions and race in the way you should, so maybe you should aim for a 10k PB after you're done with the easy marathons.


  • #1697
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    Krusty_Clown wrote: »
    I wouldn't jump into the 2x2m + 2x1m, without first having done the initial session (6x1m). The series of sessions is designed as a progressive sequence, so if you don't do them in order, you likely won't realize the kind of benefits you should.

    Running marathons (even at a sub-optimal pace) could also hamper you ability to hit the 10k training sessions and race in the way you should, so maybe you should aim for a 10k PB after you're done with the easy marathons.

    I had been doing the sessions slightly revised but for 5k training up till last week. So i did 6 x .5 mile and then progressed through the weeks up to 3 x 1 mile at 5k pace (about 20 sec/mile faster than goal 10k pace). I was hoping this would at least let me jump in to doing 1 x 2 + 4 x 1mile at 10k pace (about 6'25- hoping to go sub 40 in Dunshaughlin).

    RE the marathons- yeah definately guilty of trying to do too much at once but I really enjoy the pacing gigs (socially as much as anything else). I was kind of following your example of extra long LSR's in a 10k programme to keep the endurance gained from the ultra up. After dunsghaughlin I have 12 weeks to Berlin so it's now or never I'm afraid.


  • #1698
    shels4ever
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    menoscemo wrote: »
    IRE the marathons- yeah definately guilty of trying to do too much at once but I really enjoy the pacing gigs (socially as much as anything else).
    I thnk thats what it comes down to doing what you enjoy or running fast over the shorter distances. Very hard to do both to the max of your ability.

    Just at a quick glance of the best of 2011 thread i'm not suprised that the multi marathon people dont really feature in any of the short events.

    But in the end of the day enjoying your running is important too just might have to trade some time over the shorter races.


  • #1699
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    shels4ever wrote: »
    But in the end of the day enjoying your running is important too just might have to trade some time over the shorter races.

    Thanks. That's the way i'm looking at it. If i was training for the short stuff all year I am sure i could easily do way better than a Sub 40 10k.

    As it is I am thinking sub 40 is pretty conservative to target anyways. I do enjoy the long stuff a lot, but I still think I am better over the short stuff.


  • #1700
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    menoscemo wrote: »
    I had been doing the sessions slightly revised but for 5k training up till last week. So i did 6 x .5 mile and then progressed through the weeks up to 3 x 1 mile at 5k pace (about 20 sec/mile faster than goal 10k pace). I was hoping this would at least let me jump in to doing 1 x 2 + 4 x 1mile at 10k pace (about 6'25- hoping to go sub 40 in Dunshaughlin).
    It would certainly help, but like everything in life, skipping blocks comes at a price, e.g. heightened risk of injury, and increased risk of blowing up (without the proper Lt/Vo2 improvements along the way..
    menoscemo wrote: »
    RE the marathons- yeah definately guilty of trying to do too much at once but I really enjoy the pacing gigs (socially as much as anything else).
    Me too, which is why I'm kind of aiming for the 1/2 marathons these days. Next marathon pacing gig will (hopefully) be after my next marathon. we need to encourage the race organizers to have more 10k and 5k pacers!


  • #1701
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    I let the log go for a week or so to let the calf debate die down :p. Training went as follows:

    Wednesday 1st June
    3.2 miles with 5 x 30 second strides (at 5k pace). Just a tester for the calf to make sure I could do the speed the next day. Test passed

    Thursday 2nd June Met with Woddle, sharktale and woddles friend to do the next mcmillan 10k workout. The plan said 1x 2mile + 4 x 1 mile at planned 10k pace. I got through the first 2 mile section OK (6'24, 6'27) but the 5 minute jog/walk recovery just didn't seem enough and I couldn't hold the pace for the next mile rep (6'29). Again the 4 min recovery was insufficient and the pace dropped again the next mile rep (6'31). Sharktale was finding this tough too and dropped out here, which was all the excuse I needed to pack it in myself :(. I was immediately annoyed at myself for being so weak. The hot weather is a possible valid excuse for why the session went wrong. Details here 1 k warm down with Claralara and digger who turned up at the park just as I finished meant 6 miles for the day.

    Friday 3rd June
    5 miles recovery (8'56 pace)

    Saturday 4th June
    5.4 miles Including 3 miles tempo (6'52, 6'47' 6'49) this felt tough. I had hoped for 4 miles tempo but the heat took it's toll again.


    Weekly total 6 runs 30 miles

    Sunday 5th June
    Rest- driving to cork.

    Monday 6th june
    Cork City Marathon, 4 hour pacing
    26.4 miles in 3'58'59. I did this with Aimman and JP Daly. Had a blast all the way through and we got great support from the crowds as we had a nice big group. Aimman was particularly effective and geeing up the crowds to give us a big cheer. We ran about 20 miles with Karl Henry or Operation transformation fame and he seemed like a nice fellow.
    Conditions were pretty much perfect and overall it was a fairly easy course. Once we got to about 20 miles all the hills were pretty much gone so most of the group with us at this stage managed to hold on although we had to go back and encourage stragglers not to get cut adrift a few times. I encouraged a few to srpint ahead with about half a mile to go then waited at the 26 mile marker for the other pacers and pacees and help pull them across the line. Great day overall. I'll definately have my name down for next years pacing gig.


    Tuesday 7th june
    4.2 miles recovery (9'14 pace). Pretty uneventful except for a few killer swans on the canal path who were snapping at everything going past them, man, dogs and bikes :pac:. I had to go back out the gate and round the roads because I was too chicken to take the swans on.

    WTD 2 runs 30.6 miles


    Month|No. of days Runnning|Miles
    January|28/31|256.3
    February|24/28|236.9
    March|23/31|221.9
    April|22/30|150.2
    May|25/31|198.5
    June|6/7|50.3
    Total|128/158|1140.6


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  • #1702
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    5.3 miles @8'35 pace. The good news is the HR is very low for the pace (138). The not so good news is that I still have DOMS all over the legs from Monday, hopefully they'll be fully recovered by the weekend.

    WTD 3 runs 35.9 miles


    Month|No. of days Runnning|Miles
    January|28/31|256.3
    February|24/28|236.9
    March|23/31|221.9
    April|22/30|150.2
    May|25/31|198.5
    June|7/8|55.6
    Total|129/159|1145.9


  • #1703
    Oisin11178
    Registered Users Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭Oisin11178


    Join the club. Yesterday my left hamstring felt like Tarzan was swinging out of it. Id rate cork marginally tougher than Dublin just because of The little undulations all ever the course. Felt like we were never running on flat ground.


  • #1704
    Mr Slow
    Registered Users Posts: 6,554 ✭✭✭Mr Slow


    Ice baths people!!!


  • #1705
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    5k in 26'41 (8'40 pace). Met up with woddle and his friend in marlay. They were doing a big mcmillan workout. While my legs were a million times better than yesterday, I could still feel some tenderness so I just tipped around for a few miles while the lads suffered. Enjoyed the run despite getting drenched and frozen in arctic like conditions. Where is our summer?:mad:

    WTD 4 runs 39 miles


    Month|No. of days Runnning|Miles
    January|28/31|256.3
    February|24/28|236.9
    March|23/31|221.9
    April|22/30|150.2
    May|25/31|198.5
    June|8/9|58.7
    Total|130/160|1149


  • #1706
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    This was my sneaky goal 5k after missing Donore a few weeks ago. I had planned to go with woddle but got a call at 3 to say he wouldn't make it. I knew Jackyback and WB Yeats would be there, so I headed anyway after work. Didn't get out of work till 5.10pm but was there already by five to 6. registered and met JB, did a warm up and sauntered up to the start line. The first criticism of the race was here. it was to start at 7pm but we had to wait to let all the cars out that were leaving mass :rolleyes: and ended up waiting to 7.30pm. When the race finally got going there was an absolute maul at the start line. Myself and JB were only about 5 meters back but there was an immediate pile up as the slower runners held up the show. While JB slalomed through the crowds I managed to get tripped up and briefly hit the deck.

    By the time I got going I was 20 meter back of JB, but decided to keep it cool and wait to the crowd thinned. The Garmin was saying 6'2x pace after half a k, but I soon found the gaps and made it past JB after about 800m. I was concentrating on getting the lap pace down to 6'0x, so I was happy to get through the first k in 3.42 (6 seconds up on 19min pace) and through the first mile in 6'06. Second mile I held the pace fine, 6'09 for the mile. At the 3k marker I was 11'22 I think, so still 2 seconds up on sub 19...then things got tough. Looking at the garmin now I can see it was a drag in the third mile but my legs just turned to lead. The lungs felt fine but I couldn't turn the legs over as fast any more. People started to stream past me including JB at about 3.5k. I didn't look at the watch again until 4k gone when I realised the sub 19 was gone. I was at 14'30 for 4k (18 seconds down) and 6'38 pace for the third mile. It was just damage limitation now, the target was just to hold on and get a PB (previous one was 19'45 for the Rathfarnham 5k last September). The finishing straight eventually came and I picked it up a bit and got in at 19'27 for an 18 second PB.
    Summary 5k in 19'27, mile splits:6'06, 6'09, 6'37 :eek: and 6'10 for the last 0.1. Obviously I lost the sub 19 in the third mile.

    Initially I was really disappointed but in retrospect I am happy enough. I know where I stand now and the course was quite tough, an overall net uphill. The marathon on Monday may still have been in my legs and caused the slow down, I felt comfortable enough up to that point and the lungs actually felt ok as I slowed, it was just the legs. Onwards and upwards. I'll still give the sub40 a lash in Dunshaughlin.

    5 miles for the day in total


    WTD 5 runs 44 miles


    Month|No. of days Runnning|Miles
    January|28/31|256.3
    February|24/28|236.9
    March|23/31|221.9
    April|22/30|150.2
    May|25/31|198.5
    June|9/11|58.7
    Total|131/162|1154[/QUOTE]


  • #1707
    Oisin11178
    Registered Users Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭Oisin11178


    well done on the pb, its a fine line in the short races. No time to recover if it goes wrong.
    edit, thats not a hard course by the way. Its looks nearly ideal.


  • #1708
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    Oisin11178 wrote: »
    well done on the pb, its a fine line in the short races. No time to recover if it goes wrong.
    edit, thats not a hard course by the way. Its looks nearly ideal.

    Definitely not a hard course. Not as fast as Rathfarnham though. I can't blame the course, I was just not quite there myself today.


  • #1709
    chinguetti
    Registered Users Posts: 2,545 ✭✭✭chinguetti


    3 days ago you said your legs were feeling Monday's marathon so to get a pb is fair going. Well done.

    But you're not a machine, so you might be a bit unrealistic to expect to get a sub 19 in a 5k after a 4 hr marathon 5 days later. You done alot of long run all year for Conn so if you ever decide to do half marathons and less for a few months, you will knock out serious pbs.


  • #1710
    Davis Big Limo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭ Davis Big Limo


    Niall as i said after the race getting a pb is a mighty result considering a marathon in the same week. 18:xx is deffo there for this year you just got to pick the right race and get the lead up right.
    FWIW when i seen you starting to go away from me i thought **** ye you aul grey bollix showing me up:)


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  • #1711
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    Davis Big Limo wrote: »
    Niall as i said after the race getting a pb is a mighty result considering a marathon in the same week. 18:xx is deffo there for this year you just got to pick the right race and get the lead up right.
    FWIW when i seen you starting to go away from me i thought **** ye you aul grey bollix showing me up:)

    Nice run yourself, especially after a 2k swim this morning :cool:
    I said the same thing when you came past at 3.5km, but you were too in the zone to hear me.

    Also, old? :rolleyes: What age are you? :P That makes you an old bollix too!


This discussion has been closed.
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