Veronica Guerin

seamus · 12-07-2003 10:54am #1

Since you can't really have any spoilers......

Brilliant.

Cate Blanchett is fantastic. You'd swear she was Irish, her accent is perfect, and her acting is great. Admittedly I'd never seen or met Veronica Guerin, but I read about the research Cate put in, and the reaction of the Guerins, so I assume she's pretty accurate.

The entire movie is extremely accurate. There's very little artistic licence taken with the story (afaik), and not much done to add drama or suspense or anything to it. It's just presented, as is, and the audience left to draw what they want from it. The characters are the complete picks you expect them to be, and the language gritty. Very authentic inner-city Dublin IMO.

Highly recommended by me.

byte · 13-07-2003 1:39am

Yup, just after watching it, and indeed, it was a lot better than I thought it would be. I also recommend it!

Ivan · 13-07-2003 1:46am

Originally posted by seamus

The entire movie is extremely accurate. There's very little artistic licence taken with the story (afaik), and not much done to add drama or suspense or anything to it. It's just presented, as is, and the audience left to draw what they want from it.

Apparently its been bashed to bits for its gross inaccuracies.

That said I'm looking forward to seeing it.

Mr E · 13-07-2003 3:40pm

I'm not sure about the inaccuracies, but the movie itself is great. It deserves to do well worldwide, but I'm not sure how well it will do outside Ireland.

Even though you know whats going to happen, the last 10 minutes are very moving..... The building music, the reaction of friends and family as they are told, the funeral procession etc.

I can only imagine how difficult the final scenes were for Veronica's family to watch.

- Dave.

SweetBirdOfTruth · 13-07-2003 6:53pm

Originally posted by seamus
The entire movie is extremely accurate. There's very little artistic licence taken with the story (afaik), and not much done to add drama or suspense or anything to it. It's just presented, as is, and the audience left to draw what they want from it.

an unbelievable comment. there is practically only one truth left in the film, and that's that guerin got shot. just about everything else is lies and exageration. gilligan never did heroin, only soft drugs. if 8 kids died of drugs in one year then we'd have all besieged dail eireann. the concerned parents were active and successful long before guerin even started writing as a career, they did not need her death to be galvanised into action. just about everything in the "and they all lived happily ever after" voice over is a lie - you cannot change the constitution without a referendum, yet we are shown tony gregory (in a tie? tony gregory? in a tie?!?) signing the change within a week of her death. crime is higher than it's ever been (how many killed last week, four?). gilligan did not kill cahill, and when cahill was killed it was, as far as i remember it, just cahill and not his whole gang. even minor things are fiddled - how about when her brother says he's the only guerin in the phone book? hello?

the whole story is bull**** and fake and nothing - nothing - in it can be relied upon to be a fair depiction of actual events.

and the little asthmatic knacker kid wheezing his way through the fields of athenry is even worse in a cinema than the little **** is on grafton street.

the only good thing i can say of the film is that they did get the accents right.

seamus · 13-07-2003 7:06pm

Originally posted by SweetBirdOfTruth
an unbelievable comment. there is practically only one truth left in the film, and that's that guerin got shot. just about everything else is lies and exageration. gilligan never did heroin, only soft drugs. if 8 kids died of drugs in one year then we'd have all besieged dail eireann. the concerned parents were active and successful long before guerin even started writing as a career, they did not need her death to be galvanised into action. just about everything in the "and they all lived happily ever after" voice over is a lie - you cannot change the constitution without a referendum, yet we are shown tony gregory (in a tie? tony gregory? in a tie?!?) signing the change within a week of her death. crime is higher than it's ever been (how many killed last week, four?). gilligan did not kill cahill, and when cahill was killed it was, as far as i remember it, just cahill and not his whole gang. even minor things are fiddled - how about when her brother says he's the only guerin in the phone book? hello?

8 kids dying of drugs in one year isn't exactly remarkable. The movie never says Gilligan did heroin. Implies, certainly. It doesn't say concerned parents was unsuccessful or new. The constitution statement was a bit strange alright. There is no 'they all lived happily ever after' part in it, just the facts. X people got jailed, and crime dropped 15% - that's all it says. Crime atm is certainly not higher than it's ever been, and even if it was, the movie is based 7 years ago, with no reference to the current day :rolleyes:
It implies Gilligan killed Cahill, doesn't say it. And Cahill's whole gang wasn't killed in the film, hence the "The Cahill mob will kill you...etc" statements repeatedly made :rolleyes:.
The last statement isn't a minor fiddle - he meant he was the only family member in the phonebook. Obviously gangsters aren't just going to look up every Guerin in the phonebook and attack them like the Terminator or something :rolleyes:.

It's quite similar to the general, in that it makes many implications but never points the finger. The only thing it shows is that Brian Meehan was driving the bike - something established in court, and so legal. Everything else shown is based on the evidence.

Accuracy in a film isn't minor semantics like who was wearing what tie, and who said exactly what...

SweetBirdOfTruth · 14-07-2003 12:33am

oh ffs, are you for real? the film doesn't say this, the film doesn't say that, it only implies things? look, whatever you're smoking, i want some, ok?

the concerned parents. early scene, vg attends concerned parents' rally, virtually no one on it. later scene, post death, hundreds. that's not the way it was - living in dolphin's barn at the time i know that that's not the way it was.

gilligan/cahill - the film is pretty unequivical on its claim that gilligan ordered cahill killed.

the killing of the cahill gang - what is this, pedants night out? we see three or four of them killed before cahill. i don't remember that as being the way it actually happened. maybe someone with better memory/research will tell me i'm wrong.

eight kids dying in one clock of flats, four from one family, counts as remarkable in my books. too remarkable. if you know where/when it actually happened, i look forward to you showing me how unremarkable it really is.

"Crime atm is certainly not higher than it's ever been, and even if it was" ... which roughly translates as "you're wrong and even if you're right you're still wrong, so there." take it back to the schoolyard.

the film shows far more that meehan driving a bike. take your blinkers off sometime.

SweetBirdOfTruth · 14-07-2003 12:45am

and accuracy does matter for there are many morons dumb enough to believe that what they saw on the screen is what actually happened.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,2-1507-721318,00.html

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2003/06/15/story266478895.asp

sceptre · 14-07-2003 2:37am

On the Cahill thing:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,997239,00.html

Two different review juries with two different votes then.

Jimy Guerin had a piece in the Sindo this week. Doesn't add much but may be of interest to some:
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=129&si=1010342&issue_id=9492

de5p0i1er · 14-07-2003 6:26am

Haven't seen it yet but heard great feed back from all sides I'll check it out next weekend.

Venom · 14-07-2003 12:24pm

the concerned parents. early scene, vg attends concerned parents' rally, virtually no one on it. later scene, post death, hundreds. that's not the way it was - living in dolphin's barn at the time i know that that's not the way it was.

Havent seen the movie yet, but just wanted to comment about the above quote. Its spot on the money. The whole concerned parent's movement for lack of a official discription was HUGE right from the START. VG's death had **** all to do with it and this is the first time Iv heard her name mentioned in relation to the whole drug problem of that area.

Now I may be getting on in years, and the old brain cells slowing down a tad, but I recall the drug problem in Dolphins Barn and the role of the concerned parent's of being well over long before VG's death by at least 5 years.

Having grew up in the area, stuff like that tends to stick in one's mind.

TomTom · 16-07-2003 12:48am

I just seen the film and I liked it alot. weather it was innacurate, which parts were, I'd advise ppl to see it from a good film point of view.

It starts with "based on a true story" which can mean elements may be true but does not say the entire film is pure fact.

I however failed to see the part where it says Gilligan was the supplier of heroin. She was moving from criminal to criminal acuseing them of providing drugs, and she eventualy found the possibility that gilligan was doing it. But according to the film he proved to be more ruthless than the others. It showed some of his guys in the area where the heroin was being delt but it never defined a clear link that he was doing it. It did imply a lot of things without actually saying them directly. I think the film used this to let you think these things to make the story better without saying the so called facts were indeed factual.

As for the murder of cahel, it showed gilligan talking about the fact he would not pay the money back and then it showed several men being killed followed by cahel himself. It never outlined that these were the cahel gang. It never stated that gilligan did it. Trainer comes in and askes gilligan why he did it but gilligan never says he did he simply asks whos side trainer is on. VG implies it was not the ira by reading a statment from the family.

Stuff about 8 kids dying of the drugs is balderdash as reported by many papers. And I don't think from what i've read that Vg had that much influence on the protests but this does add to the theme of the film.

Now I may be getting on in years, and the old brain cells slowing down a tad, but I recall the drug problem in Dolphins Barn and the role of the concerned parent's of being well over long before VG's death by at least 5 years.
Your saying that in 1991 the problem of drugs in dolphins barn were over if i'm getting you correctly, but in my recolection, 3 - 4 years ago after walking pissed through dolphins barn coming home from the pub, even though warned by locals not to do this. No problems encountered but the next morning it was on the news that a tallagh man had been shot there the night before by local drug dealers for 'dealing outside his area'. Thats a drug problem if you ask me.

It's full of uncertainties and that is what holds the film together. makes it interisting. Sure if half of history portrayed in films was told as it happened it would be boreing.

I'm open for critisism but I'll tell ya something though, the cast of glenroe had a hell of a reunion.

Snakeoid · 16-07-2003 10:27am

Just a quick point - Crime is not increasing but it is the Press and TV coverage that is increasing.

gandalf · 16-07-2003 11:46pm

Saw it tonight and it was a good film, with the exception of the odd bit of paddywackery and dodgy facts (Tony Gregory in a tie!!!). Kate Blancett was very good as Veronica.

Gandalf.

sceptre · 17-07-2003 3:40pm

Originally posted by gandalf
Saw it tonight and it was a good film, with the exception of the odd bit of paddywackery and dodgy facts (Tony Gregory in a tie!!!). Kate Blancett was very good as Veronica.

Gandalf.

Tony owns a tie. If I recall rightly he wore it in 1989 when CJH needed him to abstain in order to form a government. I'm not taking the mickey here - I'm fairly sure he did wear a tie on that occasion. On the other hand, I think we can all guarantee that he won't be wearing a tie when a journo comes for tea.

SweetBirdOfTruth · 17-07-2003 3:48pm

gregory's approach to the film currently seems to be to ignore it. he says he never did anything like storm into the indo as shown here, but at the same time, he doesn't want to get into slagging the film off ....

Pumpkinhead · 17-07-2003 4:56pm

Im going to it tonight - can't wait...

heard Gilligan is amazing...

jArgHA · 18-07-2003 4:03pm

Saw the flic yesterday, it's worth going to see but I would have to agree with SweetBird on the inaccuracies and how this is leading to misconceptions outside (and inside) of Ireland.

Also, I'm never a big fan of sentimentality and this film gets pretty carried away in this regard at times, sure it's the american influence in the flic, but the rendition of Fields of Athenry at the end is bloody painful.

Thought Blanchett pulled off the role very well, and of the other actors Brian Meehan and Veronica's Mum (Brenda Fricker) were excellent.

6/10 IMHO

Kalina · 21-07-2003 3:31pm

Cate Blanchett was incredible in the title role, she looked eerily like Veronica. Her accent was on the spot aswell. If the real Veronica did the things that her character did in this movie- walking up to Gilligans ranch, calling on the Monk on a regular basis, setting up John Traynor and dropping around to Martin Cahill's family home- then I think she was a very foolhardy woman!!

Originally posted by Pumpkinhead
heard Gilligan is amazing...

Gilligan was portrayed as a volatile, terrifying and cruel man in this movie. He frightened me, especially in the scene where he meets Veronica face to face on his front door.. though whether that happened in real life or not is questionable. I wasn't prepared to take Gerard McSorley that seriously after his portrayal as Todunctious in he Father Ted special (

), even though he was excellent in his threatening crooked cop role in 'In the Name of the Father'.

Another character who was well portrayed was of course Martin Cahill. John Boormans 'The General' painted Cahill as likeable and even generous, he was funny when he regularily outsmarted the gardai and the housing authorities when he stubbornly stayed in his home while it was being torn down around him. And picking the excellent but almost comic and cuddly Brendan Gleeson further strenghtened this depiction of Cahill as the likeable rogue. However, the Cahill in Veronica Guerin was evil and chilling, especially in the scene where Veronica looks in through his kitchen window and he stares back at her- very freaky stuff!! And his wife was a bit more accurate in this movie, she had a bit of a film star quality in 'The General'. How many sisters did Cahill have children with?? At his funeral there looked to be about 3!!

Overall I enjoyed the movie, there were fantastic performances from all the leading actors. If people can get past the fact that Veronica's last two years alive are not portrayed accurately then they will enjoy it. The worst thing about the fiction in this movie is that John Gilligan now reckons 'he'll have his day in court' (thanks for those great links SweetBirdofTruth) and the last thing we want to see is him profiting from this movie. It would be horribly ironic if he did!

Veronica Guerin

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