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Cheapest Club Membership in Ireland

13

Comments

  • #62
    Almaviva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭Almaviva


    Unglika Norse wrote: »
    I am against a person buying a "membership" for a convinience of handicap.

    I am against NAMA owned golf courses whose rates of green fees are set below local members clubs because they can do so in an effort to to make it look as if they can survive.

    I am against propriotry golf course in the main as their prime objective is to make money for themselves and as can be seen from recent events care little about the people who have helped them to build up that business in the first place.

    I'll sit back now and wait for the usual reply's

    Unglika Norse is against stuff.




  • #63
    Almaviva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭Almaviva


    I think its a case of horses(or golfers) for (golf) courses. The vaste majority of Golf Clubs, in all their varieties, are under severe pressure, like every other facet of the Ireland these days after spending 10 years spending more money than it really had. Now it has to adjust. And different clubs and golfers are taking different tacks. The downturn is also very uneven in its impact. Some people are little or not at all affected. Others are taking a major hit. I would be slow to be critical of either clubs taking a cut price approach to maintaining revenue, or golfers choosing that option. The key is keeping as many golfers in the game, and clubs running as possible. However unpalatable some of the stategies might seem at the moment.


  • #64
    onlyfinewine
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭onlyfinewine


    By Unglika Norse And by the way there is the rule within CONGU that your handicap must be held at the club in which you play most of your competitive golf, so if you don't play at your home club your handicap could well come in for scrutiny as to whether or not it should be allowed.

    I'm sure that this only applies where you are a member of more than one club and have to define which club keeps your home handicap record.


  • #65
    Unglika Norse
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭Unglika Norse


    true, but it may be an argumentative point if you are playing all of your competitive golf in one club of which you are not a member....must read that definition again


  • #66
    ernieprice
    Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭ernieprice


    Reganovski wrote: »
    That was defeated I think

    http://www.gui.ie/munster/general/result-of-motions-at-adm-munster-2012.aspx[/QUOTE]


    It came up again at the Leinster Golf ADM on Tuesday 27th Nov in Carton


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  • #67
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,027 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    so who is reviewing the handicaps of these people?
    or do they just "manage" their own...


  • #68
    onlyfinewine
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭onlyfinewine


    GreeBo wrote: »
    so who is reviewing the handicaps of these people?
    or do they just "manage" their own...

    I assume you are not being serious? Otherwise a description of distance members as "these people" is not only sarcastic, it shows a large degree of insensitivity. Just because they have or choose to cut their cloth to their measure and not indulge in large joining fees or yearly subscriptions does not allow you to cast aspersions on them.
    Being well versed in golf you already know who manages the handicaps? and of course it is the handicap secretary of their home club.
    A little bit less of the them and us in the future please.


  • #69
    gggg
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭gggg


    looks like i reopened a can of worms... anyway, yes Scarke for 99...

    i probably phrased my post poorly but i dont want 'membership'... have no time to be entering the clubhouse to be honest. If clubs are ok with these cheap types of membership and the GUI are happy then thats fine with me. For the record, i play off 6 at a well established club just now and am simply not getting value playing 20 rounds a year so looking at an option where i can simply keep a handicap and play 5-10 opens in Dublin next year. Nothing dodgy or banditry about that at all...

    gggg


  • #70
    ernieprice
    Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭ernieprice


    The reason that the GUI will not do anything about distant membership or NAMA run courses is that they get €19 for every member who is issued with a GUI handicap card.


  • #71
    scrubber72
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,215 ✭✭✭scrubber72


    My father has asked me to look into cheap membership anywhere in the country. He is 72 now and his membership would be 700 euro for the club he is in don't do a senior membership fee and any other local club want full payment including hello money. Its not viable for him so at 99 euro and he can play open days and he can hold a proper handicap.


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  • #72
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,027 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    scrubber72 wrote: »
    at 99 euro and he can play open days and he can hold a proper handicap.
    I guess this raises the question of what a "proper" handicap is.
    Im not too confident that a course accepting distance "memberships" from people for €99 with no requirement to ever play there will be investing much time into maintaining handicaps or conducting reviews for these same people.

    I think this approach to memberships makes it very easy for people to manage their handicaps in perhaps a less honest way than they should, with little to no oversight from anyone or reviews on their actual golfing ability.


  • #73
    scrubber72
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,215 ✭✭✭scrubber72


    By proper handicap i mean a truthful handicap.
    He lives in galway so he will only play open days in the area.
    Maybe one a week and the odd am am during the summer.
    Like i said he is 72, plays off 22 and struggles over 18 holes with fatigue.
    The cost of membership is too high locally so you have to see my point.


  • #74
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,027 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    scrubber72 wrote: »
    By proper handicap i mean a truthful handicap.
    What makes it truthful though? For me, someone has to be monitoring it in your own club and making reviews (up and down) when necessary for it to be an accurate reflection of your ability and comparable to everyone elses handicap (otherwise it defeats the point)
    scrubber72 wrote: »
    He lives in galway so he will only play open days in the area.
    Maybe one a week and the odd am am during the summer.
    Like i said he is 72, plays off 22 and struggles over 18 holes with fatigue.
    Fair enough, but that doesnt mean he cant be very useful in a scramble/fourball/team etc event and potentially be at an advantage against golfers whose handicaps are being closely monitored by a handicap secretary.
    Wouldnt non competitive golf be a better fit in this scenario?
    scrubber72 wrote: »
    The cost of membership is too high locally so you have to see my point.
    Tbh I dont think thats a valid enough reason to join a club that you will never play in.

    Im not having a go at your old man in any way here and I accept the situation he is in, I just believe there has to be a better way to provide someone with a correct, monitored handicap than just letting them join a club hundreds of miles away to fulfil the GUI handicap requirement for competitive golf. (effectively in name only)

    Maybe it should be possible to enter opens without a GUI, you just cannot claim any prizes...


  • #75
    onlyfinewine
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭onlyfinewine


    GreeBo wrote: »
    What makes it truthful though? For me, someone has to be monitoring it in your own club and making reviews (up and down) when necessary for it to be an accurate reflection of your ability and comparable to everyone elses handicap (otherwise it defeats the point)
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by scrubber72 View Post
    The cost of membership is too high locally so you have to see my point.
    Tbh I dont think thats a valid enough reason to join a club that you will never play in.



    Greebo, what kind of fairyland are you gone to? Are you not reading what the posters are saying or have your own prejudices blinded you to the current economic realities.

    You are saying that if the op's father (Failing stamina, in his golden years, gone out to 22 handicap,retired etc.who wants to play some limited golf without breaking the bank) decides to join a major priced club in his vicinity, pay his hello money, his annual subscription and his GUI affiliation fee, he will be a more honest, truthful golfer than if he takes a distance membership and also pays his GUI fee when he will somehow suddenly be less honest and less trustworthy? That kind of attitude in incredible and unworthy.

    If you think you are being monitored closely as to your ups and downs you are suffering from a massive ego trip. Nobody cares or has the time or resources these days to give every individual the kind of time you are suggesting to closely monitor their handicaps.

    With or without prejudice, unless you are prepared to pay his membership you shouldn't be commenting on his financial position, and I am sure there are plenty of other distance members who would be delighted if you were to pay their subs also, and their hello money if required, so that they will have "proper" handicaps.
    Maybe it should be possible to enter opens without a GUI, you just cannot claim any prizes...

    All the handicaps that are GUI affiliated are the same and are just as valid no matter which club you are a member of. They are run under the same handicap scheme, and I am pretty sure that the GUI would not like to lose tens of thousands of yearly subs in order to facilitate your pensive musings.


  • #76
    alxmorgan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭alxmorgan


    GreeBo wrote: »
    golfers whose handicaps are being closely monitored by a handicap secretary.
    .

    Does this actually happen ? This is a serious question as I am fairly new to the game and clueless in this regard.

    If you are playing singles then where does the extra monitoring come in ? Winter comps that are non-qualifying etc ?

    And as for truthful handicaps I think we are back again to the whole question of managing handicaps etc. I think its been accepted on here by now that if someone wants to manage their handicap there is not much that can be done about it in reality.

    I don't think scrubbers Dad is anymore likely to have an untruthful handicap than anyone in any club in the land really.

    He's not breaking any rules here is he ? I mean he is choosing to take a road which is financially viable for him.

    I have considered a similar approach myself as with two young kids there may come a time when I cannot justify a full membership for the amount I play.

    And why not just play uncompetitive golf you ask ? Well I golf on my own a good bit as I need to be flexible with the kids and cannot always find a playing partner that matches my time window. And playing opens means you can fit in with others playing that day. Much harder if you cannot play in them.


  • #77
    Peterdalkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭Peterdalkey


    I thought this thread was about the Cheapest Golf Membership in Ireland. Silly boy!!

    Peter

    PS. At 72 his Dad should be encouraged and enabled to play as much as he can and facilitiated by lowest cost.


  • #78
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,027 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    alxmorgan wrote: »
    Does this actually happen ? This is a serious question as I am fairly new to the game and clueless in this regard.

    If you are playing singles then where does the extra monitoring come in ? Winter comps that are non-qualifying etc ?
    Yes, your clubs handicap secretary (well chances are its the handicap software thats prompting him most of the time but...) would/should be aware of any significant scores you have had throughout the year, not only in singles competitions and make adjustments accordingly.
    alxmorgan wrote: »
    And as for truthful handicaps I think we are back again to the whole question of managing handicaps etc. I think its been accepted on here by now that if someone wants to manage their handicap there is not much that can be done about it in reality.
    Perhaps not, but making it trivial for someone by not requiring them to ever set foot in the door of a club and giving them GUI handicaps via post doesnt seem that great an idea to me. Its hardly going to improve matters.
    alxmorgan wrote: »

    I don't think scrubbers Dad is anymore likely to have an untruthful handicap than anyone in any club in the land really.

    As I said, Im not in any way accusing his dad of anything, I'm merely pointing out that one of the methods to help ensure handicaps are correct is that your club is monitoring it. If you club is a place that you post a cheque to once a year and they dont know you from Adam I cannot see how they are managing your handicap.
    alxmorgan wrote: »
    He's not breaking any rules here is he ? I mean he is choosing to take a road which is financially viable for him.
    Agreed. I just dont think it should be an available option to anyone.


    Whats the difference between this and me posting the GUI their €15 and not joining any club at all, I'll just tell them my handicap and am free to play all the opens I want?

    Would you consider this fair, since I cannot afford €99 I will just pay €15.


  • #79
    PARlance
    Registered Users Posts: 21,093 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    Would someone that is paying more feel the need to recoup that by managing their handicap in order to win back some of their high fee??? :p

    The higher the sub, the more bandits. It's as simple as that isn't it :rolleyes:


  • #80
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,027 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Peterdalkey wrote: »
    PS. At 72 his Dad should be encouraged and enabled to play as much as he can and facilitiated by lowest cost.

    Within reason.
    As I asked above, why not just let people pay the GUI €15 and do away with the requirement to join a club totally?


  • #81
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,027 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    ajcurry123 wrote: »
    Would someone that is paying more feel the need to recoup that by managing their handicap in order to win back some of their high fee??? :p

    The higher the sub, the more bandits. It's as simple as that isn't it :rolleyes:

    I dont see any connection between the cost of golf and the likelihood of cheating, do you?


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  • #82
    mike12
    Registered Users Posts: 2,331 ✭✭✭mike12


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Within reason.
    As I asked above, why not just let people pay the GUI €15 and do away with the requirement to join a club totally?
    Have to agree with you here.
    Maybe the way to go is to host opens for society handicaps and a different day for GUI handicaps. Have all societies register with the GUI and use there software to change all society handicaps. Just pay your 15 quid and you have a form of competitive golf for all. Everyone wins more revenue for the clubs as they open up a new form of revenue and all the nomad golfers can now play comps.
    In principal i have no real problem with guys paying for handicaps but they should have to turn up in the club for there 3 games a year or play x amount of single open comps.

    Mike


  • #83
    IanPoulter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭IanPoulter


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Yes, your clubs handicap secretary (well chances are its the handicap software thats prompting him most of the time but...) would/should be aware of any significant scores you have had throughout the year, not only in singles competitions and make adjustments accordingly.

    In all fairness I don't think a 72 year old will return a significant score at that age playing off 22. In the twilight years of golf the handicap heads north. If he does manage to play better than his handicap in an open some day then the computer will cut him like anyone else. To suggest that the handicap sec monitors players handicaps (other than exceptional scores in winter) is a bit dreamy. At year end the computer adjusts some players handicaps normally by plus or minus 1 shot (occasionally 2 shots) but the percentage of players adjusted is very low. In a club of 700 I've only seen about 40 adjusted each year (less than 6%).


  • #84
    onlyfinewine
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭onlyfinewine


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I dont see any connection between the cost of golf and the likelihood of cheating, do you?


    How interesting !!!

    Seems to me that you saw a huge connection when you were talking abut a distance membership, What a two faced argument.


  • #85
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,027 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    IanPoulter wrote: »
    In all fairness I don't think a 72 year old will return a significant score at that age playing off 22. In the twilight years of golf the handicap heads north. If he does manage to play better than his handicap in an open some day then the computer will cut him like anyone else. To suggest that the handicap sec monitors players handicaps (other than exceptional scores in winter) is a bit dreamy. At year end the computer adjusts some players handicaps normally by plus or minus 1 shot (occasionally 2 shots) but the percentage of players adjusted is very low. In a club of 700 I've only seen about 40 adjusted each year (less than 6%).

    As I said, this isnt about one 72 year old, this is about allowing people to buy a GUI handicap.

    What about the 22 year old playing of 28, living in Dublin but a "member" of Scarke?
    They only play open events, perhaps a high number of fourball and team events.
    Would you fancy playing them in a single competition?

    Also is there any requirement on Scarke (or any club) to use a computerised handicap system? What if its manual and they have 1,500 people listed as members. Are you confident that all the away scores are:
    a) being reported
    b) being looked at by anyone


  • #86
    bobwilliams
    Registered Users Posts: 1,050 ✭✭✭bobwilliams


    GreeBo wrote: »
    As I said, this isnt about one 72 year old, this is about allowing people to buy a GUI handicap.

    What about the 22 year old playing of 28, living in Dublin but a "member" of Scarke?
    They only play open events, perhaps a high number of fourball and team events.
    Would you fancy playing them in a single competition?

    Also is there any requirement on Scarke (or any club) to use a computerised handicap system? What if its manual and they have 1,500 people listed as members. Are you confident that all the away scores are:
    a) being reported
    b) being looked at by anyone

    yes i would for sure,i think you're missing something here.
    Most of the bandits i know are 'proper' members and not distance members.
    The reason is simple,they have more opportunities to get .1's back.Most clubs have at 2 singles comps a week.
    The distance member is going to have to shell out a lot of cash to get those .1's back.


  • #87
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,027 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    bobwilliams wrote: »
    yes i would for sure,i think you're missing something here.
    Most of the bandits i know are 'proper' members and not distance members.
    The reason is simple,they have more opportunities to get .1's back.Most clubs have at 2 singles comps a week.
    The distance member is going to have to shell out a lot of cash to get those .1's back.

    You only need to get 0.1's back if you are getting cut in the first place...


  • #88
    bobwilliams
    Registered Users Posts: 1,050 ✭✭✭bobwilliams


    GreeBo wrote: »
    You only need to get 0.1's back if you are getting cut in the first place...

    i'm aware of how the system works,the typical bandit will hover up and down winning the odd comp here and there,feature strongly in interclub team and might do well in the big comps.
    The point is,the .1's come back quicker.


  • #89
    PARlance
    Registered Users Posts: 21,093 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    ajcurry123 wrote: »
    Would someone that is paying more feel the need to recoup that by managing their handicap in order to win back some of their high fee??? :p

    The higher the sub, the more bandits. It's as simple as that isn't it :rolleyes:

    GreeBo wrote: »
    I dont see any connection between the cost of golf and the likelihood of cheating, do you?

    I think you missed the "stick out tongue" and "roll eyes (sarcastic)" face
    But to answer your question, no I don't see any correlation between the cost of golf and the likelihood of cheating.

    Do you really not see any connection?
    Please see below
    GreeBo wrote: »
    so who is reviewing the handicaps of these people?
    or do they just "manage" their own...
    GreeBo wrote: »
    What about the 22 year old playing of 28, living in Dublin but a "member" of Scarke?
    They only play open events, perhaps a high number of fourball and team events.
    Would you fancy playing them in a single competition?

    Are you confident that all the away scores are:
    a) being reported


  • #90
    Almaviva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭Almaviva


    bobwilliams wrote: »
    The distance member is going to have to shell out a lot of cash to get those .1's back.

    Which is unfair alright. They should allow us buy 0.1s at a reasonable price to overcome this problem. People dont have so much money these days for handicap maintenance. €2 per 0.1 would probably be about right I guess. (probably with a limit of 40 or so per year)


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  • #91
    Almaviva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭Almaviva


    bobwilliams wrote: »
    Most of the bandits i know are 'proper' members and not distance members. The reason is simple,they have more opportunities to get .1's back.

    You have a point though.


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