Donegal CC failure

raymon wrote: »

Ok then , let's say that FF had remained in power and introduced their water charges and their Irish Water. Do you think that all the FF councillors would be staging revolts and shaking their heads in fake outrage on the 6-one news???
Not a chance.

Do you think Barry Cowen would be shouting like an idiot on television.

I am against water charges. I am no big fan of FG/ lab ( although they are making some progress) and Phil Hogan annoys me. But I can't let Fianna Fail take the moral high ground on this. It is cynical.

Eh, this is politics no? I'm quite serious, I'd put good money on the average Councillor regardless of creed compromising on almost all areas of politics (excluding but not always, things like abortion) if it helped them get elected. Sure you get the odd true believer Green or Socialist Councillor but they're the exception not the rule. I find it very very odd to single out FF for criticism on this because well, all of the Big Three have been up to it since I first started paying attention to politics twenty years ago! It's really not because I think FF are faultless here or anything just that this really is the norm and them not doing this would be deeply out of character and similar to the Tallaght Strategy from when I was rather young (which was a high point for FG in terms of integrity tbh).

nesf wrote: »

Eh, this is politics no? I'm quite serious, I'd put good money on the average Councillor regardless of creed compromising on almost all areas of politics (excluding but not always, things like abortion) if it helped them get elected. Sure you get the odd true believer Green or Socialist Councillor but they're the exception not the rule. I find it very very odd to single out FF for criticism on this because well, all of the Big Three have been up to it since I first started paying attention to politics twenty years ago! It's really not because I think FF are faultless here or anything just that this really is the norm and them not doing this would be deeply out of character and similar to the Tallaght Strategy from when I was rather young (which was a high point for FG in terms of integrity tbh).

I agree with most of what you are saying.

I am singling out FF in this thread because it is they that are misrepresenting themselves in the media over these charges. If you notice I didn't criticize Sinn Fein, because they have a valid right to protest on this issue.

Let me tell you it gives me no pleasure to see Phil Hogan with his arrogant bulldozer attitude on our screens either

nesf wrote: »

If you don't think SF talk as often out of both sides of their mouth as any other party there then you've got a lot to learn about politics I'm afraid.

In general yes. But on this specific issue SF and independents are the only sides that should be protesting .

FF have been making a habit of hijacking other peoples protests lately.

nesf wrote: »

Former FF Ministers protesting sure, some CC far from the leadership? Eh, I doubt they knew more about the Troika negotiations than FG etc did to be honest and a lot of them were not very on-board with the whole thing either if memory serves.

That's a bit of a cop out. Fianna Fail are not responsible for FF policies and decisions?

Interesting .......

nesf wrote: »

Well, just to start with it'd be more than a tad unreasonable to hold someone who was minorly involved in Ógra as responsible for Ministerial decisions. FF is responsible sure, but does that responsibility permeate down to every member of it? Every voter who threw a preference their way? Etc.

Yes , I hold all members of FF responsible for all decisions that FF made , especially people like Ogra and other grassroots members.

Shame on them all for bankrupting the country and handing over our soverignty.

Shame on them for instigating water charges and Irish Water

Phoebas wrote: »

What do you mean by especially responsible? More responsible that the leadership?

They are all to blame in my opinion.

Take a look at this youtube clip of Brian Cowen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j8F-9nmZ5I

Do you see one idiot ? Or many ?

I see many - although I am biased.

Phoebas wrote: »

But why do you hold Ogra and the grassroots especially responsible?

You never answered the question - how many idiots did you see in the video ?


They are the people who canvass their friends and neighbours up and down the country to sell their party leaders to the electorate. Without the popular support of grassroots the party would not have leaders like Charlie, Bertie , Cowen and Martin.

I dont want to drag this thread off the OP - that is not my intention. I just wanted to highlight the hipocracy of Fianna Fail CC members , protesting against a body which was their idea.

Phoebas wrote: »

But you're right about one thing - this is going off topic, so probably not worth pursuing further.

Agreed