Lessons to be learned from the LCOC Debacle

Silentcorner · 06-01-2014 12:16am #1

Hope you take the time to read what I'm about to say, this will begin as a Limerick issue, but does have national consequences.

I am from Limerick, a city I genuinely love, I love it because I've only ever enjoyed a positive experience, I go to the theatre. gigs, concerts, sporting events all within a 3 mile radius of where I live, a lot has been written/published about Limerick 90% is incorrect creating a massive misperception.

This week has been a complete rollercoaster for all us Limerick people, 7 days straight of high profile negative media attention...a ridiculous amount of media exposure, but it has challenged me...I could never understand how the people of my city so publically broadcast our issues and always have(issues which now every city/urban area have to varying degrees), well there are two reasons for what I also thought was self loathing, I was partially wrong.

There are two reasons, one, because of the massive misperception of Limerick, it now has a % of citizens who are beaten down, trust me when I say this, everywhere a Limerick person goes we get insulted, the insult isn't necessarily meant as one, but it is an insult (think about/speak to any Limerick person who has worked in your office) that creates a self loathing akin to that of a bullied child, sometimes when a child is bullied it becomes easier to hate yourself...but it still hurts, and it doesn't help you overcome
the bullying.

The other part of that self loathing, isn't self loathing at all, it is a constant challenge to improve...this can be a hard city, a hard city to impress, if you are talented, to Limerick people it is not enough you have to improve, it is not enough to impress once you have to impress all the time...it is this part of our citys personality that has ensured that the city is always improving...and it is, those improvments are becoming more and more obvious to an increased number of people/tourists...it is also the personality trait that has ensured that we are the biggest export of Irish culture outside Dublin, we are, I'll bet most of you didn't know that but check it out...Cranberries/Riverdance/Frank McCourt...the list is so long I actually won't finish it, but you get the idea.

Some Irish people do not understand that drive that I have only just realised is in us Limerick people...therefore they feel uncomfortable in Limerick, they don't get it...but until you confront your issues you cannot heal/improve...but our system does not allow us to rebel...we sweep things under the carpet...which is one reason we haven't protested the greatest political/financial Debacle the world has ever seen!!!

It is also the city that last mounted a political uprising, love them or hate them they (PDs) did initially attempt to rid the country of its parochialism and corruption..the system got to them, they became part of the problem...but it started in Limerick.

But my city has problems, it has social issues that have been and continue to be ignored...that is not good enough...there should be plenty in that city for all to prosper, but our political system doesn't allow it...that is not good enough

To the people of CORK, a city I love, be aware that your self belief is not always confidence, it is insecurity, it holds you back...I'll give an example...The Frank and Walters are Corks biggest musical export, but they only lasted a year outside Cork...they had to return....they are now a pub band!!! They should have sold more albums than the 40 million the Cranberries sold but they didn't have the mentality to drive on, go farther...impress more people in more countries...if you sweep your problems under the carpet they don't go away....do you think the people of Limerick would allow a situation whereby the city centre was flooded every year (which correct me if I'm wrong but should be a bigger newstory than a harmless city of culture debacle)...would we f**k...shout louder...tell everyone...embarrass the establishment into taking action...its going to involve admitting you have a serious problem...this is not nor should be considered an insult...its a challenge!!!

To the people of GALWAY, culture is not a long line of weekend festivals, driven purely to fill hotel beds (lets be honest), it once was a proper bohemian town with a clearly defined personality, it no longer has...get it back...it has become a victim of a tourism beast...take back the city centre from the hoardes of pissheads who frequent your city centre, you shouldn't have to move to the outer areas to socialise...again it is not an insult...it is a challenge.

To the people of WATERFORD...you have been forgotten...you have...how many of us know it is celebrating its 1100th birthday!!! I still remember the Dublin celebrations in 1988 FFS...you are our cultural cousins...we both know it...shout louder don't be afraid to be negative...our political establishment has abandoned you...it is not good enough

To the DUBS, you won't like this but you are very similar to Limerick people, our crime problems are similar, our cultural infrastructure is similar, our streetscapes are similar...areas of Dublin receive negative media attention also, there is a massive drug addicts issue on your main street...that cannot or should be tolerated...it is a disgrace..

To the people of Ireland, your towns have also been damaged, they have...I've seen it myself...do not do the rural thing and pretend it is not there, shout roar kick...the quality of life in our rural areas are being constantly eroded...pubs/post offices/garda stations are being closed down...the political system is literally closing down your communities.

It is in no ones best interest if we think that the only city with challenges is Limerick...it is all around us and it is not good enough

Emmigration is not the answer, it is a disgrace...we should have a population of 8-10 million people and growing, our political establishment does not allow it.

To the PUBLIC SECTOR...no longer will I ever post anything remotely hostile about you...all of us in the Private Sector would do exactly as you are doing...if some one was stupid enough to offer me €100k to do a job I should be getting €60k for would I or anyone turn it down...would we f**k...the ONLY reason we have taken diminished wages/conditions is simply self preservation, we know we will lose our jobs if we don't...but you are not bound by that...if our government are stupid enough to overpay or overstaff services in an unsustainable fashion then that is not your problem...the Germans will be forced to bail us out...enjoy your wages and conditions, we all would in a second if we could...

Now to the media, you have done as much damage as our political establishment, you have destroyed the reputation of my city over a prolonged period of time, you have lied/misled us for long enough...just because FF have crawled back out of their holes does not mean they have renewed...they have not...they cannot be part of our future...just becuase Fg/Lab promised us change and FAILED to deliver on our biggest concern does not mean you can sweep it under the carpet...it is not good enough...

To the POLITICAL ESTABLISHMENT...we have had enough of your cronyism, your inability to resolve real issues, like crime/social deprevation, your continued ability to put your hands into the public purse for a myriad of personal benefits...stop using our hard earned taxes on funding this charade we call a political establishment...

Imagine if a harmless act of parochial parish pump politics, coupled with a ridiculously over embellished media storm...actually became the focal point for absolute renewal of attitudes to the establishment....now that my friends is culture and part of the reason that despite of this absolute mess I have never been prouder of my home city!!!

RandomName2 · 06-01-2014 12:24am

Posted a thread on this earlier but it got sucked into DeVore's black hole

I think it highlights the fallacy of the "political appointment always selects the most competent individuals" mantra. Cox seems to be bringing EU practices to Ireland (although it is, unfortunately, by no means exclusive to Brussels).

And wow... long post OP

flutered · 06-01-2014 12:29am

some post, straight from the heart, i could not have tried to write it, comgrats.

For Reals · 06-01-2014 6:25pm

There are indeed parts of Dublin written off. Even during 'the boom' we had outside interests coming in to our previously ignored neighbourhoods to build private business and apartments while we were given a few playgrounds and a few licks of paint. Now those times have passed, nothing of consequence has changed.
Posting to any position without a public tender is wrong. One would think lessons were learned over the past ten years as regarding the national plight, but it seems some people will play fast and loose with public monies nonetheless.
As regards the Arts, we, (speaking broadly) generally under fund it, or blindly throw money at it, (see the spike) its the first to be cut and even when viewed as a way of healing or bridging gaps people like Cox show it little respect. You don't appoint the neighbour lady simply because she likes the Opera, no more than you appoint a chum, simply because they've administrative experience albeit in another field.
At the end of the day, as an outsider, the people of Limerick or certain representative bodies should be consulted at every stage which is practical. Its sad when Willie O'Dea is fighting your corner.

Mr.Micro · 06-01-2014 6:49pm

It's starting off well, cronyism culture, first up. The €120,000 job was apparently not advertised. People will not stand for that s*it any more. Merit, ability and qualifications are what should count.

raymon · 06-01-2014 11:34pm

Willie o Dea needs to keep his 'tasche out of this debacle.

I knew he would try to get a few sneaky kicks in from the side.

Silentcorner · 07-01-2014 2:49pm

For Reals wrote: »

There are indeed parts of Dublin written off. Even during 'the boom' we had outside interests coming in to our previously ignored neighbourhoods to build private business and apartments while we were given a few playgrounds and a few licks of paint. Now those times have passed, nothing of consequence has changed.
Posting to any position without a public tender is wrong. One would think lessons were learned over the past ten years as regarding the national plight, but it seems some people will play fast and loose with public monies nonetheless.
As regards the Arts, we, (speaking broadly) generally under fund it, or blindly throw money at it, (see the spike) its the first to be cut and even when viewed as a way of healing or bridging gaps people like Cox show it little respect. You don't appoint the neighbour lady simply because she likes the Opera, no more than you appoint a chum, simply because they've administrative experience albeit in another field.
At the end of the day, as an outsider, the people of Limerick or certain representative bodies should be consulted at every stage which is practical. Its sad when Willie O'Dea is fighting your corner.

Limerick has some really serious social issues, some really deprived areas, it is not because these people are lazy or uneducated, in fact these areas often produce the most amount of Culture (the two brothers in the cranberries are from Moyross - International Rock stars is what they are now) it is because our political establishment has allowed it happen...I know people of wealth in this city who tried to help...they did, I know for a fact they did, but our political establishment blocked them...they have surrounded these areas in quangos (that no one knows of) and made them impenetrable to anyone who actually cares about these citizens.

Take this recent example in Dublin, 16 people kicked to death a young fella

Think about that.

For that to happen a number of factors have been ignored...policing, opportunity, drug intake, proliferation of cheap alcohol, self worth, and along with a host of other factors the most crucial of all...a lack of a critical mass of people who will actually stand up and NO MORE...you have to ask yourself how healthy can a city that is literally divided down the middle in terms of wealth be? Is that divide just a manifestation of urban parochialism?

There was a problem with gangland crime in Limerick a number of years ago, 5000 people took to the streets, guess what the problem is gone! I would have been of the opinion at the time that they shouldn't march, it would only bring more negative attention to the city...but I was wrong.

The only way Cork will get their drainage issue resolved (which potentially could have huge consequences for its future) is to go cap in hand to central government (hopefully if you are lucky enough you have a Gov Minister from the area) to beg the exchequer for money that Cork people have paid in taxes so they can resolve the issue...is that right?

We need to rid the political establishment of two things, the massive political power that lies in Dublin, and the parochial nature of local politics, because it is not working for the people of this country. (Willie O'Dea is a classic example of that system)

For Reals · 07-01-2014 5:24pm

Sadly moving from Dublin won't change anything. Politicians come from the four corners, where they do or do nothing will make little, if any difference.
I've heard politicians blame 'Dublin' for their own in-action, like the city itself wields all the power over the rest of the country.
Its as you say, on the one hand Larry the local gets voted in because he gets jerseys for the local GAA team, even though he's a sham of a public representative. We actually had a Fianna Fail chap handing out boxes of chocolates to the elderly one year. Meanwhile great tracts of working class areas are pretty much left to their own devices. I mean as you touched on, look at that guy kicked to death on the walkway and compare to the guy kicked to death outside the Burlington, (Anabels). One just has to compare the reports in the media, the different reporting style, simply based on postal code. Unwanted as I'm sure it was the suspects in the Anabel case became celebrities with interviews with 'close friends' and follow up stories, my favourite being the Judge letting one of them off to tend to his degree and such. The nation was seemingly shocked, but this was based on postal code. A murder, (for that's what it was) in other parts of Dublin or Limerick would be three of four headlines down most days.
A lot of people feel by simply opting out, not voting, that will somehow 'show them'. If you're not voting for them, they'd rather you didn't.
I really don't get why more people aren't taking to the streets and more often. I've marched myself when I felt I had no other recourse, but you just know unless its going to effect their income, politicians are just laughing at you.

Silentcorner · 07-01-2014 8:22pm

For Reals wrote: »

Sadly moving from Dublin won't change anything. Politicians come from the four corners, where they do or do nothing will make little, if any difference.
I've heard politicians blame 'Dublin' for their own in-action, like the city itself wields all the power over the rest of the country.
Its as you say, on the one hand Larry the local gets voted in because he gets jerseys for the local GAA team, even though he's a sham of a public representative. We actually had a Fianna Fail chap handing out boxes of chocolates to the elderly one year. Meanwhile great tracts of working class areas are pretty much left to their own devices. I mean as you touched on, look at that guy kicked to death on the walkway and compare to the guy kicked to death outside the Burlington, (Anabels). One just has to compare the reports in the media, the different reporting style, simply based on postal code. Unwanted as I'm sure it was the suspects in the Anabel case became celebrities with interviews with 'close friends' and follow up stories, my favourite being the Judge letting one of them off to tend to his degree and such. The nation was seemingly shocked, but this was based on postal code. A murder, (for that's what it was) in other parts of Dublin or Limerick would be three of four headlines down most days.
A lot of people feel by simply opting out, not voting, that will somehow 'show them'. If you're not voting for them, they'd rather you didn't.
I really don't get why more people aren't taking to the streets and more often. I've marched myself when I felt I had no other recourse, but you just know unless its going to effect their income, politicians are just laughing at you.

Well I agree with you that politicians tend to blame everyone/everything else for inactivity...so removing power from Dublin would also remove that excuse.

For instance, Dublin City should be in a position to enact law that would tackle/remove any issues particular to Dublin, as the nations biggest urban area it will have issues particular to an urban area of its size.

But the parochial nature of our system ensures that the politician with the biggest client list succeeds (ala Willie O'Dea)..and then expends most of their energy performing tasks more suited to the Citizens Information Service. Each region has it's own issues, therefore should be able to act to resolve those issues, that way funding for Arts/Sport/Infrastructure/Education should be spread more evenly.

For example, Waterfore/Wexford area needs a university, and it does, the region should have the capacity to raise funds regionally through specific taxes to do that.

We have over development in Dublin (nobody should be expected to spend 1 hour in traffic to travel 5/6 miles to work and the same again home), and underdevelopment everywhere else...take a look around the provincial towns, they are struggling to keep their young educated population.

Silentcorner · 07-01-2014 8:36pm

Mr.Micro wrote: »

It's starting off well, cronyism culture, first up. The €120,000 job was apparently not advertised. People will not stand for that s*it any more. Merit, ability and qualifications are what should count.

It actually epitomised every ugly facet of Irish (not just Limerick) life. A baying media (purely because it was never going to allow Limerick have any cultural recognition) an act of parish pump politics from a Government minister, followed up with a completely flawed recruitment process purely to place an underqualified insider in an overpaid position. Sound familiar? This process is typical of every quango in this state...

One reason why we do not protest is because the media picks our battles, ie public v private, no light will ever be shone on the real issues...most of us do not realise to what extent the media influences us, or how it decides what topics we form opinions on.

nuac · 09-01-2014 9:12pm

A few questions

1. Why do we need a Cultural City Programme in a country with so few cities?

2. How was Limerick selected for this programme - what were the criteria, were submissions invited from other centres?

3. In the midst of all the austerity and cutbacks how was €6 mln found, whether taxpayers money, EU funds or Lottery

4. If (2) and (3) were decided by Ml Noonan is this not a Noonan vanity project?.

5. Does Deenihan the Minister for the Arts etc really have responsbility here? After this fiasco become public knowledge he claimed that he only knew what he read in the papers, altho he had a civil servant on the board.

6, Any local funding or contribution here?

7. Will anything permanent remain in Limerick for the city and for the nation after this is all over?

Lessons to be learned from the LCOC Debacle

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