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Christians who are not Mormons

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  • #32
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    You mean you are not swayed by the magical mystical underwear ?

    180px-Garment.jpg

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9upYoCHyCv4
    I'm sold!

    Anyway, you Christians are just dismissing Mormonism just like the Jews dismissed Christianity all those years ago.


  • #33
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    JC 2K3 wrote: »
    I'm sold!

    Anyway, you Christians are just dismissing Mormonism just like the Jews dismissed Christianity all those years ago.
    There is a difference. The Prophecy of the forthcoming of Jesus was made plane to the Jews right throughout Isaiah but because Judaism is steeped in man made tradition and rituals to this day just like other Christian religions rather than being based on the inspired Word of God so they rejected Christ. (There is a growing number of Messianic Jews).

    "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were [our] faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed". Isaiah 53.

    The following would warn you on the likes of Mormonism: "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." Matthew 7:15.


  • #34
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    Was Jesus not supposed to bring world peace and a host of other things promised in scripture that he didn't deliver though?

    (I only have a vague understanding of this, don't crucify me if I'm wrong ;) )


  • #35
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    JC 2K3 wrote: »
    Was Jesus not supposed to bring world peace and a host of other things promised in scripture that he didn't deliver though?

    (I only have a vague understanding of this, don't crucify me if I'm wrong ;) )
    Jesus, by no means came to bring peace, but to divide his children from the world. Pasters and Christian leaders should do the same. But so called Christian leaders such as the Pope do the exact oposite, they try bring unity and world peace. Christians are to be seperate and holy and not of this world. Jesus said that families would be split up over him. My family is certainly split up.

    "Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law." Luke 12vs51


  • #36
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    There is a difference. The Prophecy of the forthcoming of Jesus was made plane to the Jews right throughout Isaiah but because Judaism is steeped in man made tradition and rituals to this day just like other Christian religions rather than being based on the inspired Word of God so they rejected Christ.

    Thats great, except Isaiah 35 isn't about the messiah, its about Israel.

    "My servant" is explained in numerous other passages in Isaiah to refer to Israel itself.

    Isaiah 41:9
    [Thou] whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou [art] my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.


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  • #37
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Wicknight wrote: »
    Thats great, except Isaiah 35 isn't about the messiah, its about Israel.
    Isaiah 35 is not Isaiah 53, nor is it Isaiah 7:14 both of which predicted Christ.

    One of the points of contention between Christians and Jews is the proper interpretation of Isaiah 7:14. If you read Matthew 1:22-23, it's easy to see why:

    "Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us". Matthew 1:22/23

    The author of the Gospel of Matthew was quoting Isaiah 7:14. Let us examine this verse:

    Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.


    Israel was/is considered the "Fig tree",


  • #38
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Isaiah 35 is not Isaiah 53, nor is it Isaiah 7:14 both of which predicted Christ.

    Isaiah 52:13
    Behold, My servant will prosper,
    He will be high and lifted up and greatly exalted.

    The "servant" of God is not Jesus, it is Israel itself. It says this in numerous other passages in Isaiah.
    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

    Pretty sure Jesus wasn't named Immanuel.

    Also, what land of 2 kings was forsaken while Jesus was a child?


  • #39
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Wicknight wrote: »
    Isaiah 52:13 Behold, My servant will prosper, He will be high and lifted up and greatly exalted. The "servant" of God is not Jesus, it is Israel itself. It says this in numerous other passages in Isaiah. Pretty sure Jesus wasn't named Immanuel.
    Isaiah 52:13 is not Isaiah 53 although this is also clearly speaking of the coming Messiah.

    Matthew 1 23 reads "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us".

    Immanuel or Emmanuel or Imanu'el (עִמָּנוּאֵל "God [is] with us" consists of two Hebrew words: אל (El, meaning 'God') and עמנו (Immanu, meaning 'with us'); Standard Hebrew ʻImmanuʼel, Tiberian Hebrew ʻImmānûʼēl). It is a name used in the Bible in Isaiah 7:14 and Isaiah 8:8. It also appears in Matthew 1:23 in the Christian New Testament.


  • #40
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Isaiah 52:13 is not Isaiah 53 although this is also clearly speaking of the coming Messiah.

    The original writing didn't have chapters. Biblical scholars (both Jewish and Christian) accept that it is all the same piece, the "person" (ie Israel) being spoken about at the end of 52 is the same person in 53.
    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Matthew 1 23 reads "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us".

    What the Christians said after Jesus was born is rather irrelevant. For a prophecy to be considered relevant it has to correct predict the future before the fact.
    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Immanuel or Emmanuel or Imanu'el (עִמָּנוּאֵל "God [is] with us" consists of two Hebrew words: אל (El, meaning 'God') and עמנו (Immanu, meaning 'with us'); Standard Hebrew ʻImmanuʼel, Tiberian Hebrew ʻImmānûʼēl). It is a name used in the Bible in Isaiah 7:14 and Isaiah 8:8. It also appears in Matthew 1:23 in the Christian New Testament.

    None of that changes the fact that Jesus' name wasn't Immanuel.

    If someone stretches it enough one can make any prophecy fit anything, particularly in the context of this thread.

    It is rather pointless giving out about the Mormons not holding to a strict interpretation of the Bible when none of the rest of you do either.


  • #41
    ryoishin
    Registered Users Posts: 754 ✭✭✭ryoishin


    The world council of churches came to an agreement that to be a Christian a faith must profess that they believe in One God who is Trinitarian. I think that this excluded 6 self proclaimed Christian faiths (could be wrong on the number) but one of which was Mormonism. I think it had something to do with God living on another planet and therefore existing within time and space and being subject to time means getting old and dying meaning that one is not divine and so not God.


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  • #42
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    ryoishin wrote: »
    The world council of churches came to an agreement that to be a Christian a faith must profess that they believe in One God who is Trinitarian. I think that this excluded 6 self proclaimed Christian faiths (could be wrong on the number) but one of which was Mormonism. I think it had something to do with God living on another planet and therefore existing within time and space and being subject to time means getting old and dying meaning that one is not divine and so not God.
    It has always been the desire of the Devil to get all of us under one canopy and his favourite tool is through ecumenism. Organised religion is never of God but is of the Devil. The World Council of Churches is not of God. A Christian Church should be separate from any such an organisation. http://www.wcc-coe.org/


  • #43
    ryoishin
    Registered Users Posts: 754 ✭✭✭ryoishin


    I think thats a bot extreme. to hold that view would mean that all those involved in the world council of churches are abandoned by God.

    However I dont know much about the world council of churches it just came up in college at one stage. Im sure they have negative and positive points but I would agree that the Trinity is core to Christianity.


  • #44
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    ryoishin wrote: »
    I think thats a bot extreme. to hold that view would mean that all those involved in the world council of churches are abandoned by God. .
    Its a case of the World Council of Churches abondoning the Word of God.


  • #45
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    BrianCalgary wrote: »
    Mormonism also teaches that when you die you eventually become a god yourslef

    Run brought up an interesting point that I wasn't aware of, that Satan himself is referred to as a "god" in the Bible, the god of this world.

    Is it possible that Mormons are using this term in this way. And does that contradict the Bible?


  • #46
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Wicknight wrote: »
    Run brought up an interesting point that I wasn't aware of, that Satan himself is referred to as a "god" in the Bible, the god of this world.

    Is it possible that Mormons are using this term in this way. And does that contradict the Bible?

    I don't think that Satan's designation as 'the god of this age' means much more than if we said, "Americans have made money their god". It signifies that Satan is honoured by society's standards. It may well also refer to him exercising some level of authority over this present age - but that is a far cry from the biblical doctrine of God as the Eternal Creator.

    Mormon doctrine declares that God is not Eternal, but was once a man on another planet who managed to get promoted to Godness and therefore now rules over our planet. This concept of God as a localised deity certainly contradicts the biblical idea of one God as the Eternal Lord of heaven and earth.


  • #47
    BrianCalgary
    Registered Users Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭BrianCalgary


    Wicknight wrote: »
    Again, having lived with a Mormon in college (strange, strange fellow), I'm pretty sure they see Jesus as being the one "God".

    The book of Mormon describes God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Ghost as being the "one God"

    Jesus is a separate being from the Father, but they are all the one God



    I suppose at the end of the day it comes down to what one means by "god" or "God"

    My (limited) understand is that all the "gods" that Mormons talk about are actually pieces of God's spirit. Basically everything is God.

    That is one interesting quote. Thanks.

    We in Southern Alberta are surrounded by Mormons. My son is just after spending a sleepover birthday party where there was one present. My son was quite interested to hear this young fellows understandings of who God is.

    It doesn't seem to agree with that statment from the book.


  • #48
    BrianCalgary
    Registered Users Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭BrianCalgary


    Wicknight wrote: »
    Run brought up an interesting point that I wasn't aware of, that Satan himself is referred to as a "god" in the Bible, the god of this world.

    Is it possible that Mormons are using this term in this way. And does that contradict the Bible?

    PDN said it well.
    The concept of a lower case 'god' is anything that is the priority in our life. There are those who would claim that my god is football, with the shrines being Old Trafford and the Brandywell. (one of which I have been to :))

    Satan is the 'god' of this world and he is the one who gets worshipped in a round about way.


  • #49
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    PDN wrote: »
    Mormon doctrine declares that God is not Eternal, but was once a man on another planet who managed to get promoted to Godness and therefore now rules over our planet. This concept of God as a localised deity certainly contradicts the biblical idea of one God as the Eternal Lord of heaven and earth.

    http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/godhead/farms_man.htm

    Well the Mormons, surprisingly, disagree :D


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