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Justification!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭Soul Winner


    Acts 13:1-3

    "Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away"

    To SubjectSean: How can you reconcile these verses (not written by Paul by the way) with your argument? I suppose Luke (who wrote the book of Acts) was making this up as well? Or maybe the Holy Spirit was confused about Paul here? Now I'm confused. Peter (as Brian points out) endorsed Paul, even James at Jerusalem endorsed Paul and said he was to preach the Gospel unto the Gentiles and they to the Jews.


  • Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭SubjectSean


    JimiTime wrote: »
    SUBJECTSEAN, lets say for arguements sake you are correct. That Paul never had the road to damascus event etc. Lets say he just made it up etc. What parts of Pauls teachings do you think contend with Jesus' and why do you think it does?

    Simply I don't think Jesus ever said he was God or that faith alone would save anybody


  • Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭SubjectSean


    Acts 13:1-3

    To SubjectSean: How can you reconcile these verses (not written by Paul by the way) with your argument? I suppose Luke (who wrote the book of Acts) was making this up as well? Or maybe the Holy Spirit was confused about Paul here? Now I'm confused. Peter (as Brian points out) endorsed Paul, even James at Jerusalem endorsed Paul and said he was to preach the Gospel unto the Gentiles and they to the Jews.

    I think the trouble is that you have a Church that can only trace its growth from the teachings of Paul. Where is the Gospel that was preached to the Jews? What happened to that part of the movement that was based in Jerusalem? The only trace of it is possibly the epistle of James and that is totally at odds with the teachings of Paul. A look at the history books would seem to suggest strongly that the Jewish followers of Jesus were persecuted out of existence as heretics by the very Church that Paul established. Any difference there was between the two sets of doctrines was entirely due to Pauls inventions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭Soul Winner


    I think the trouble is that you have a Church that can only trace its growth from the teachings of Paul. Where is the Gospel that was preached to the Jews? What happened to that part of the movement that was based in Jerusalem? The only trace of it is possibly the epistle of James and that is totally at odds with the teachings of Paul. A look at the history books would seem to suggest strongly that the Jewish followers of Jesus were persecuted out of existence as heretics by the very Church that Paul established. Any difference there was between the two sets of doctrines was entirely due to Pauls inventions.

    What separated both sides (and I'm glad you pointed it out) is the doctrine that started this post. Justification! Is it by works of the law or faith in God's promises? Paul again and again has pointed out from the scriptures that God's way is the way of faith. There is more weight behind Paul's argument than there is behind James' one little Epistle. Contrast: “James, a ‘servant’ of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the ‘twelve tribes’ which are scattered abroad," and “Paul an apostle (one sent) of Jesus Christ to the gentiles” a charge James himself endorsed. You cannot get away form it. If you’re going to listen to James at all then Paul is still the one you should follow unless you are not a gentile (non Jew). And as for the churches that Paul established persecuting other Christians? Are you picking these ideas out of the air or what? Where is your basis for such a ridiculous statement? Are you so desperate to save face here that you would blatantly lie? If anything it was the other way around. The Galatatians were spied on by those from Jerusalem to see if they were circumcised, and as such adhered to the Law of Moses. They where the ones that persecuted the churches Paul established not the other way around.


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