Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Would you?

  • 31-01-2012 3:39pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,325 ✭✭✭✭


    There was woman on the Marion Funnican program on Saturday telling her story, the woman had become an escort/prostitute for a year when she could not pay her mortgage, she was separated and a motherer of 3 children.

    She said it was a logical decision as she couldn't work full time because of childcare the idea came to her after trying dating and only finding men who wanted something casual this led her to think men who only want something causal might use an escort for sex.

    She has now written a book about her time as an escort she keep it totally secrete from her parents and family and her ex husband.

    As I have never been tested by being in a situation where I could not pay my mortgage I don't know what I would do, I like to think I would never do it because I think prostitution is an exploitation of women.

    So if you were rally stuck would you do it.


«13

Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Do you think she was exploited?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,325 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    She said she didn't feel exploited.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    I heard the interview. I don't think its ALWAYS the case that a woman selling herself is being exploited. It didn't sound like this woman was, she had a clear view of her market, targeted it and seemed to have dealt with the consequences of what she was doing in a very level headed way. It was an eye-opening interview. However, she still felt the need to disguise her voice and said she would only be telling her children what she did later in life, if at all. So I guess on some level she's not 100% okay with what she did if she still needs to hide her real identity.


  • Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭lex123


    i think any mother would probably think about it when d risk of losing your home comes into an specially with kids involved,but then again you would think why didnt she turn to her parents or family,its a tricky one indeed but i wouldnt look down at her for doing it not 1 bit!


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    ETA-I wonder how many men have felt this is an option to make money and went ahead with it? I think its interesting to contrast the lap-dancing and stripper end of this where some women need to do this to pay the bills, get through college, support their kids or whatever with the options available to men. How many features are there on men who turned to this kind of thing due to financial woes?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭lex123


    I wouldnt say the market is any were near as big 4 men as it is for women


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    lazygal wrote: »
    I heard the interview. I don't think its ALWAYS the case that a woman selling herself is being exploited. It didn't sound like this woman was, she had a clear view of her market, targeted it and seemed to have dealt with the consequences of what she was doing in a very level headed way. It was an eye-opening interview. However, she still felt the need to disguise her voice and said she would only be telling her children what she did later in life, if at all. So I guess on some level she's not 100% okay with what she did if she still needs to hide her real identity.

    I don't know if that's why, I mean there are lots of things I am 100% ok with doing in private, but if word got out I'm sure there'd be some people who would look at me differently, make assumptions, and all sorts. Perhaps she's being sensible and realising that prostitutes are viewed as 'less than'.

    I don't see her hiding this part of her identity as much different from someone in say, Iran, keeping quiet about being gay. Safety of yourself and your family has to come first.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    I don't know if that's why, I mean there are lots of things I am 100% ok with doing in private, but if word got out I'm sure there'd be some people who would look at me differently, make assumptions, and all sorts. Perhaps she's being sensible and realising that prostitutes are viewed as 'less than'.

    I don't see her hiding this part of her identity as much different from someone in say, Iran, keeping quiet about being gay. Safety of yourself and your family has to come first.


    But have you ever not told someone about a job you're doing? She saw it very much as a job. I know on a pragmatic level people will see what she did, ie work as an escort, as something deserving of judgment. She obviously sees herself as still being judged and she's not ok with that, hence hiding her true identity. So on that level, she's done something she feels she will have to hide, which I would think is not good for anyone, no matter how pragmatic the reason. She always has that period of life which has a cloud over it, which even though she's written a book and done interviews about, could come back to haunt her. Which speaks volumes about the reality of working in this industry. She didn't feel exploited, but equally she can't be open about this job she did.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,877 ✭✭✭stripysocks85


    If you're extremely stuck for money, who knows what you'll resort to in order to pay the bills - especially if you've children to look after too. It wouldn't be for me, and I'm not glamourising it in any way, but it seems quite straight forward. An escort does NOT Have to engage in sexual activities, but generally does because the money is good. Obviously, you can get involved in sticky situtations, pardon the pun, and there may be times when you really really really do NOT want to do anything with your 'date', but if they've paid for you, you pretty much have to. I've looked at an escort website, purely out of curiousity, and it TOTALLY wouldn't be for me, but if someone is that desperate to pay bills, I can see how they would turn to it. Once they are safe and protecting themselves of course...............


  • Registered Users Posts: 38 Beal Tuille


    I'd be interested to read the book (assuming it's genuine and not a makey uppy thing) to find out the type of men that 'used' her.

    Were they single, married etc. If married, why did they need a prostitute. Was the Mrs at home not doing things the man wanted like o and a?


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭panda100


    I would really question the authenticity of this womens account. These types of stories pop up every now and again, and make prostitution sound quite attractive to women in dire economic situations. They are dangerous to the extreme, as its probably some pimp trying to make prostitution sound attractive to desperatly struggling women. If you actually do some research on escort ireland or any similar site, you will see that you can count on both hands the amount of Irish women who are working as prostitutes in Ireland. There is a reason why so few women would do this type of 'work'. The majority of prostitutes in Ireland are migrant women absolutely desperate for cash, and willing to do a variety of peverse acts for very little money. Being a prostitute is not about having sex with a nice,shy,clean man for 30 minutes and then walking away with a whole pile of cash. You have to be willing to do a whole variety of things for not much money, while also being in an extremely vunerable environment. I can't imagine anything more degrading for a human being. It would affect your attitude towards sex and men for the rest of your life,and that is something that money will never buy back.


  • Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭Sister Assumpta


    lazygal wrote: »
    However, she still felt the need to disguise her voice and said she would only be telling her children what she did later in life, if at all. So I guess on some level she's not 100% okay with what she did if she still needs to hide her real identity.

    No, I wouldn't agree there.

    I think she was okay with it. But I think she understood that her family, and her children,and their social groups might not be so okay with it.

    Personally I think anal sex and swinging are perfectly reasonable activities, but I wouldn't necessarily publicly advertise that opinion on live radio, because I wouldn't want to embarrass my family - regardless of how illogical their embarrassment might be.

    Would I have sex for a salary if I had no other options? Hell yes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭Sister Assumpta


    panda100 wrote: »
    If you actually do some research on escort ireland or any similar site, you will see that you can count on both hands the amount of Irish women who are working as prostitutes in Ireland. There is a reason why so few women would do this type of 'work'.
    I recently worked in a large office building where all the degree holders like myself who sat at desks and had administrative duties were Irish women. And all the cleaning staff that we worked alongside were Romanian, Chinese, Bulgarian and Brazilian women. What is the meaning of this? Why, that there is simply a hierarchy of desirability in terms of employment opportunities. It doesn't mean that typically undesirable occupations, which may be held by migrants who are new to the domestic labour market, are 'wrong' in themselves.
    The majority of prostitutes in Ireland are migrant women absolutely desperate for cash, and willing to do a variety of peverse acts for very little money.
    Perverse?

    What is a perverted act?:confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 38 Beal Tuille


    I'd say the 'tastier' end of the requirements like w'sports and beyond.

    I'd say most Irish men wouldn't be at that end of the scale. I certainly wouldn't be.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭panda100


    I recently worked in a large office building where all the degree holders like myself who sat at desks and had administrative duties were Irish women. And all the cleaning staff that we worked alongside were Romanian, Chinese, Bulgarian and Brazilian women. What is the meaning of this? Why, that there is simply a hierarchy of desirability in terms of employment opportunities. It doesn't mean that typically undesirable occupations, which may be held by migrants who are new to the domestic labour market, are 'wrong' in themselves.


    Perverse?

    What is a perverted act?:confused:

    I don't think prostitution will ever be a desirable occupation for women. If it was then there would be lots of Irish women working as prostitutes.There isn't,because luckily in Ireland we are given a lot better opportunities than the majority of women involved in prostitution in Ireland, such as asylum seekers who have no other choice but to sell their bodies.Who on earth would choose to give a blow job,followed by anal sex,followed by whatever other whim a client your not remotely attracted to decides he wants to do to and with your body.And thats the tame stuff, your boundaries will be pushed to the absolute limits if your desperate enough for money. Oh and dont foget that after you have done everything you can do sexually to please this man he will rate you looks and peformance and put it up on the escort ireland community forums.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    panda100 wrote: »
    I don't think prostitution will ever be a desirable occupation for women. If it was then there would be lots of Irish women working as prostitutes.There isn't,because luckily in Ireland we are given a lot better opportunities than the majority of women involved in prostitution in Ireland, such as asylum seekers who have no other choice but to sell their bodies.Who on earth would choose to give a blow job,followed by anal sex,followed by whatever other whim a client your not remotely attracted to decides he wants to do to and with your body.And thats the tame stuff, your boundaries will be pushed to the absolute limits if your desperate enough for money. Oh and dont foget that after you have done everything you can do sexually to please this man he will rate you looks and peformance and put it up on the escort ireland community forums.

    Well yeah, it's not for everyone, and there are lots of women (and men) who are desperate and are forced into the sex trade either through circumstance or through physical force.

    But for some people, it is a means to an end. It means food on the table, a roof over their heads and bills paid. It might not be, for a lot of people, the 'best' way to earn a living, but it beats being homeless for an awful lot of people.

    And lets not forget, some people really, really like sex. So for them, if they enjoy what they are doing, why should other people look down on them?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭saa


    Its not ooh selling sex thats shameful, I'm fine with someone who truly wants to work as a prostitute doing so but I am really unsettled by the idea that someone said she just targeted the market.. well the market scares me I'm glad she didn't get hurt or abused. Some women can't mentally cope with that kind of work some can my problem is still with the regulation of it concerning the safety of the women.


  • Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭Sister Assumpta


    panda100 wrote: »
    I don't think prostitution will ever be a desirable occupation for women. If it was then there would be lots of Irish women working as prostitutes.
    Generally speaking, I agree. But I don't think cleaning toilets will ever be a desirable occupation either. If it was, then there would be lots of Irish women working as toilet cleaners.

    But it isn't the end of the world to have to work as a toilet cleaner. And personally, I wouldn't necessarily consider it the end of the world to have to work as a prostitute.
    Who on earth would choose to give a blow job,followed by anal sex,followed by whatever other whim a client your not remotely attracted to decides he wants to do to and with your body.
    Why do you find these things so precious? It's just sex. Sorry to be crass, but I don't know why we treat handjobs with more gravity than we treat handshakes.

    I think it would do both woman AND men the world of good to be a little bit more grown up when it comes to sex. We need to stop pussyfooting around perfectly natural bodily functions and stop treating them like magical wonders.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    It's not so much the acts I view as precious, as me, I'm precious. I have no wish to deliberately put myself at risk by choosing a job that is renowned for being on the receiving end of violence and extortion.
    Why do you find these things so precious? It's just sex. Sorry to be crass, but I don't know why we treat handjobs with more gravity than we treat handshakes.

    Seriously? Do you agree with the laws that put restrictions on sex - ie familial relations or in public places? Presumably if they carry the same gravity as handshakes, there shouldn't be an issue... :confused:
    I think it would do both woman AND men the world of good to be a little bit more grown up when it comes to sex. We need to stop pussyfooting around perfectly natural bodily functions and stop treating them like magical wonders.

    I don't understand why not caring who touches you or who you touch would ever be equated with maturity &/or sure-footedness...

    I would always want to retain the right to choose who can intimately touch me and while I don't consider bodily functions magical wonders; touching - never mind intimately - some bloke I'm actually physically repulsed by would never be my idea of a rational and attractive career move.


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 sherbett32


    panda100 wrote: »
    I would really question the authenticity of this womens account. These types of stories pop up every now and again, and make prostitution sound quite attractive to women in dire economic situations. They are dangerous to the extreme, as its probably some pimp trying to make prostitution sound attractive to desperatly struggling women. If you actually do some research on escort ireland or any similar site, you will see that you can count on both hands the amount of Irish women who are working as prostitutes in Ireland. There is a reason why so few women would do this type of 'work'. The majority of prostitutes in Ireland are migrant women absolutely desperate for cash, and willing to do a variety of peverse acts for very little money. Being a prostitute is not about having sex with a nice,shy,clean man for 30 minutes and then walking away with a whole pile of cash. You have to be willing to do a whole variety of things for not much money, while also being in an extremely vunerable environment. I can't imagine anything more degrading for a human being. It would affect your attitude towards sex and men for the rest of your life,and that is something that money will never buy back.

    Completely agree with this, woman in question made it all sound very easy, just gritting your teeth while some ordinary joe pumps away for 5 minutes then she left with a lots of money.

    This is not the "real" face of prostitution in Ireland - very dangereous and damaging story IMO & may make soem women think it's easy money


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 965 ✭✭✭johnr1


    Ok, as a guy posting on this, I'm aware that my opinion is less relevant than that of women, but one thing struck me about her interview which hasn't come up in this thread yet.
    She uses supporting her children as a justification for doing a job she clearly has issues with, and feels that she can't tell anyone she knows about.

    I have absolutely zero issue with how she chooses to earn her living, - if she either didn't have children, or at least if she didn't use them to justify something she feels she must hide from everybody who knows her.

    My issue would be with what message she is teaching to her children when they almost inevitably find out. I say inevitably because this country is so small, and everyone knows someone who knows someone, and we all talk.

    This message seems to be :That material possesions and comforts are of more value than dignity and self worth.

    No child with one committed sober parent starves, lives rough or goes uneducated in this country. She had other options. This is the one she chose, fine, but she'd want to be prepared for an avalanche of anger and problems in her children if they were to find out during their mid teens for example.

    Once again, I apologise if something in this post offends women, whose opinions this thread was started for.

    .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,288 ✭✭✭pow wow


    johnr1 wrote: »
    This message seems to be :That material possesions and comforts are of more value than dignity and self worth.

    She had other options. This is the one she chose, fine, but she'd want to be prepared for an avalanche of anger and problems in her children if they were to find out during their mid teens for example.

    In the interview she didn't come across as being without dignity or self-worth so I'm not sure the message she would send to her kids is about material possessions being more valuable than those attributes. She made a decision which was right for her at the time, it doesn't make her bereft of dignity and self worth. The message, if any, doesn't need to be an either/or scenario. The fact she doesn't want her children/family to know doesn't necessarily mean she's ashamed of what she did, but one can imagine the hurt other people would feel (i.e. her parents feeling she was forced into it, her kids' friends taking the proverbial etc.)

    As for the OP's question, would I do it? If I had kids and felt that was my only option then absolutely, no question.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    I wouldn't unless in extremely dire circumstances. I don't buy "It's just sex" thinking - sex means different things to different people and if a person sees it as a merely functional act, then cool, their personal view, but it's not reasonable to feel everyone else should share their view, or that people who see it as a bigger deal are wrong. I personally can't relate to physical intimacy being put in the same category as shaking hands - i find that cold, and even a little dangerous. There are feelings of arousal required to even make it half enjoyable.

    I don't put sex on that much of a pedestal, but there has to be at least a degree of physical attraction present for me to want to engage in it. I certainly wouldn't like to engage in it as a business transaction and with someone who holds zero appeal for me whatsoever on any level besides being a form of income.
    johnr1 wrote: »
    Ok, as a guy posting on this, I'm aware that my opinion is less relevant than that of women
    .
    I don't see how it is, just because you're a man. If you said "What about the men who are exploited by the prostitutes?" or something... well that's the sort of whataboutery that leads to tensions here, not the mere fact you're a man.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    It's just sex. Sorry to be crass, but I don't know why we treat handjobs with more gravity than we treat handshakes. .

    It's not just sex. You are actually selling YOURSELF. This blog gives an honest opinion of one "escort" as she calls herself, and details why being a prostitute is about more than selling sex.
    Thankyou for showing me what sex as an object with holes is like, so I am now so grateful to have sex with someone who wants to have sex with me, my whole person, not just my vagina or mouth...

    (It’ll be over in an hour. It’ll be over in an hour. It’ll be over in an hour. It’ll be over in an hour). Every time you ordered me into a position, you made my soul shrink a little bit more. Every time you made a weird little remark about some part of my body, every time you clucked approvingly, every time you sighed when I didn’t want to do something, you made me feel that bit less powerful, that bit more submissive, that bit more devalued.....

    The money gives you the power to say who you want to ****, when you want to ****, how you want to **** them, and for how long, irrespective of her desires, pain limits, levels of comfort. You’re paying so you get to say.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 965 ✭✭✭johnr1


    pow wow wrote: »
    In the interview she didn't come across as being without dignity or self-worth so I'm not sure the message she would send to her kids is about material possessions being more valuable than those attributes. She made a decision which was right for her at the time, it doesn't make her bereft of dignity and self worth. The message, if any, doesn't need to be an either/or scenario. The fact she doesn't want her children/family to know doesn't necessarily mean she's ashamed of what she did, but one can imagine the hurt other people would feel (i.e. her parents feeling she was forced into it, her kids' friends taking the proverbial etc.)

    As for the OP's question, would I do it? If I had kids and felt that was my only option then absolutely, no question.

    If she or you lived in a country with no social supports, and there was a real danger of your children dying of hunger, or lack of shelter or of them growing up without an education, then yes, it would be in their interest to do this.
    However, neither she nor you do, and the potential damage caused to them by having a mother an escort/prostitute is in my opinion more than that caused by having to live on the welfare system here.

    Dudess wrote: »

    I don't see how it is, just because you're a man. If you said "What about the men who are exploited by the prostitutes?" or something... well that's the sort of whataboutery that leads to tensions here, not the mere fact you're a man.

    No, there are plenty of other opinions which SOME men hold which would also be unwelcome, and not just the ridiculous hyperbole you gave as an example.

    It's not just sex. You are actually selling YOURSELF. This blog gives an honest opinion of one "escort" as she calls herself, and details why being a prostitute is about more than selling sex.

    There are plenty of other escort bloggers - some who found it to be a more positive experience than the one you linked.
    Most are however by single women without children, and for them the motivation seems to be money, lifestyle, material possessions.
    I think that's fine, if those things are most important to that person. Free will, free choice etc.

    What I don't agree with is using one's children's lifestyle and material comforts to justify it in one of the richest countries in the world with a very generous welfare system.

    .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Would I walk the streets looking for punters - no, absolutely not.

    Would I accept cash in exchange for a variety of sexual acts? Yes, absolutely, if I needed or wanted the money.

    But because its not legal in Ireland and its an underground dangerous career, its highly unlikely Id ever do it here no matter how bad things were.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Giselle


    Sorry to be crass, but I don't know why we treat handjobs with more gravity than we treat handshakes.

    Its also important to remember that other people are entitled to a differing opinion as surely as you are to yours. It doesn't make them precious - whatever that means.

    I find your attitude (equating handjobs with handshakes), absolutely baffling to be honest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,325 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Its easy to take a moral position when you have never been tested!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Giselle


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Its easy to take a moral posation when you have never been tested!

    Thats very true, and I wouldn't judge anyone who goes that route.

    Its not for me, unless I had an otherwise starving brood of kids or something equally desperate, and I think I'd pay a high price in myself. But we're all different. :)


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Why do you find these things so precious? It's just sex. Sorry to be crass, but I don't know why we treat handjobs with more gravity than we treat handshakes.

    I think it would do both woman AND men the world of good to be a little bit more grown up when it comes to sex. We need to stop pussyfooting around perfectly natural bodily functions and stop treating them like magical wonders.
    That phrase makes me think of urination, defecation, menstruation.

    Sex acts as bodily functions - really reduces them to something completely perfunctory. They are natural once certain elements are present - like arousal, lubrication, desire, consent. Would you consider rape natural? I mean it's sex, a natural bodily function...

    For many people, anal isn't "just sex" - it's something they'd rather not do. Personal preference.

    And do you really think cleaner is a fair comparison with prostitute?


Advertisement