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Dangerous kickback from EU mnf drill with EC marking caused injury

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 536 ✭✭✭mrjoneill


    There is no conflict.

    Its entirely possible to control them when they jam when held correctly, when held incorrectly there is a risk of damage to the hand and wrist.

    As said above, stop blaming other people for your lack of common sense.
    1050 is the rating of the power tool I refer to.
    1 horse power is equiv to 746 watts for electric motors .
    1.050 watts is 1.4075 horsepower almost 1.5 hp

    Most small engines such as lawnmower engines are of the 1 hp type
    One horsepower is power or energy divided by time, and is 550 ft∙lb/sec, or 33,000 ft∙lb/min.
    A pound-foot (lb·ft or lbf·ft) is a unit of torque (a vector). One pound-foot is the torque created by one pound force acting at a perpendicular distance of one foot from a pivot point.

    So in lay-mans terms 1.4 hp is 770 ft-lbs/ sec or 46,200 ft-lb/min acting at a perpendicular distance of one foot from a pivot point.
    30 lbs pressure is what is usually in car tyres.


    Try lifting that in a bench press or a dead weight not to mind control a sudden twisting force not to your center of gravity which happens when using a drill. I understand such are world standard bench records. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6bu9csQC45c#!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 902 ✭✭✭baords dyslexic


    Please please please take this to the highest authority in the land and let us know how you get on - I love a good laugh.

    btw you still haven't posted what diameters of drill bit the drill was rated to use for a given material.


  • Registered Users Posts: 536 ✭✭✭mrjoneill


    Please please please take this to the highest authority in the land and let us know how you get on - I love a good laugh.

    btw you still haven't posted what diameters of drill bit the drill was rated to use for a given material.
    Some people can be amused easily and for the bit size, it’s a non issue, none is specified in the tool manual and the bit in use was a common medium size spade wood-bit if you read the first post.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    This type of thing is why my PS3 has a ridiculous epilepsy warning on startup.

    In other news, fire is hot, so careful now...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,666 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    mrjoneill wrote: »
    No, the only warning was of electrical shock, and the use of protection of hearing, dust and safety goggles.
    There is a complete absence of warning of "kickback".

    What warnings do you want to see on the drill? You state you are aware that a drill can have a kickback. You say you are aware that a drill this powerful needs to be handled very carefully. What possible warning would have prevented the accident?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,163 ✭✭✭ZENER


    Have you tried stamp collecting . . . actually no . . wait . . there's a risk of paper cuts that isn't mentioned anywhere on the stamps !!

    Seriously though a 1KW drill is going to have serious kickback especially when used with Wood Bits !! Common sense would tell you this. I doubt you can blame the drill on your inability to correctly use it.

    KEn


  • Registered Users Posts: 536 ✭✭✭mrjoneill


    ZENER wrote: »
    Have you tried stamp collecting . . . actually no . . wait . . there's a risk of paper cuts that isn't mentioned anywhere on the stamps !!

    Seriously though a 1KW drill is going to have serious kickback especially when used with Wood Bits !! Common sense would tell you this. I doubt you can blame the drill on your inability to correctly use it.

    KEn
    comparing apples or oranges like ..... actually no ... wait ....no actually apples and concrete blocks...

    Did not expect a DIY tool would be capable of causing a serious injury, or capable of wrenching ones shoulder out of its socket. I have used drills with yrs and have experienced kickback but all controllable. I never experienced an uncontrollable kickback and was not aware that portable power tools except that chainsaws could have this effect and with chainsaws they have a mechanical clutch when they get overloaded. As for my wariness of the tool I purchased I quickly became aware through usage of its power and the need to be particularly careful with it but did not think it could cause a serious injury. And if I had thought or as warned that the drill had a dangerous kickback that could cause serious injury I would not be taking it from the supermarket shelf.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Moral of the story, if you buy powerful tools, make sure you know how to use them and be careful. The more power, the more dangerous but the more efficient they are.

    Again op, ask an expert/qualified tradesman to test it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 902 ✭✭✭baords dyslexic


    mrjoneill wrote: »
    Some people can be amused easily and for the bit size, it’s a non issue, none is specified in the tool manual and the bit in use was a common medium size spade wood-bit if you read the first post.

    Just checking here, this wasn't an SDS drill?


  • Registered Users Posts: 536 ✭✭✭mrjoneill


    Just checking here, this wasn't an SDS drill?
    Yes it has sds features with a chuck with sds shaft so that non sds drill-bits could be used.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 902 ✭✭✭baords dyslexic


    mrjoneill wrote: »
    Yes it has sds features with a chuck with sds shaft so that non sds drill-bits could be used.

    I rest my case


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭cojomo2


    OP, as far as I know, drills that have over a certain torque rating( around about 48nm) must be supplied with a side handle..was your drill supplied with one, and did you use it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    in fairness the manuals are light on information when it comes to holding the drill properly

    i flicked through 4 or 5 manuals a few days back


    they mostly say to grip the handle and loss of control could cause injury


    anyone using drills regularly will already know this


    what's the legal requirement on information?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 902 ✭✭✭baords dyslexic


    The OP doesn't seem to want to mention the drill by name but this one fits the bill

    UK_70627_02_v.jpg

    Robust power tool for drilling and chiselling masonry
    1050 watt
    Trigger with rotational speed & direction control
    Auxiliary handle with non-slip grip
    Depth stop for precise drilling in metal and wood
    With non-slip SDS-Plus chuck
    Variable no-load speed up to (rpm): 1100
    LED indicator for carbon brush wear
    Impact speed, up to (bpm): 5100
    Impact force (Joules): 2.2
    Maximum drilling capacity (mm):
    - Metal: 13
    - Wood: 40
    - Masonry: 26
    Cable length (m): 4
    Weight approx. (kg): 3.4
    Includes keyless chuck, 3 SDS-Plus drill bits, 1 pointed and 1 flat chisel
    Includes keyless chuck adaptor for standard drill bits
    Supplied in a sturdy plastic carry case
    3 year manufacturer’s warranty

    (Sorry link is from Lild UK but I've seen them featured in at least two offers in IRL)

    If its the one he's on about (power, front handle guard, SDS adaptor) then it was supplied fitted with a side/front handle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 536 ✭✭✭mrjoneill


    M cebee wrote: »
    in fairness the manuals are light on information when it comes to holding the drill properly

    i flicked through 4 or 5 manuals a few days back


    they mostly say to grip the handle and loss of control could cause injury


    anyone using drills regularly will already know this


    what's the legal requirement on information?


    The issue with me is that the power drill I was using that caused me the injury it’s beyond the bounds of possibility to hold it using the handles on it when it kicks back. Its kickback force is in the region of 770 ft-lbs/ sec in a twisting action off ones center of gravity and as I posted my last drill was rated 750W and I used it for yrs without incident and there is no comparison in the kickback power using this drill and the one that caused me the injury. And as I have posted I have spoken to construction workers who use power tools and they all spoke of having incidents with such power drills and the fear they have of such power tools.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,828 ✭✭✭kirving


    What's ft-lbs /sec? Torque per Second? I don't think that really makes much sense. Or do you mean the torque on your arm ramps up at that speed?

    I think most people have had at least one hairy moment with power tools, but you learn. By their very nature, they can cause injury and you have to follow the correct procedure when using them. This obviously varies from case to case, and you can't expect a manual to incorporate this.

    Happenned to me too, when using a standard drill bit to counter sink a hole. I can't go blaming Makita for my lack of experience. I know now though, to use a countersinking bit because a normal bit will dig in, jam, and twist my arm.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,979 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    mrjoneill wrote: »
    1050 is the rating of the power tool I refer to.
    1 horse power is equiv to 746 watts for electric motors .
    1.050 watts is 1.4075 horsepower almost 1.5 hp

    Most small engines such as lawnmower engines are of the 1 hp type
    One horsepower is power or energy divided by time, and is 550 ft∙lb/sec, or 33,000 ft∙lb/min.
    A pound-foot (lb·ft or lbf·ft) is a unit of torque (a vector). One pound-foot is the torque created by one pound force acting at a perpendicular distance of one foot from a pivot point.

    So in lay-mans terms 1.4 hp is 770 ft-lbs/ sec or 46,200 ft-lb/min acting at a perpendicular distance of one foot from a pivot point.
    30 lbs pressure is what is usually in car tyres.


    Try lifting that in a bench press or a dead weight not to mind control a sudden twisting force not to your center of gravity which happens when using a drill. I understand such are world standard bench records. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6bu9csQC45c#!


    When held correctly the pivot point is the entire body, not your wrist or arm and not the length of one foot in total but rather closer to three. There is also a implied force of friction and mass in regards your body being moved. This is why there is a warning to always hold the drill correctly. You also have a loss of power in the motor and the gearing, 1050watts would at best translate to a power of 850watts in the most efficient drill out there. Which I can assure you is not yours.

    Your maths are flawed and too basic for a actual real world scenario.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,421 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Unless the drill was advertised with anti kickback features, I don't see how this is the fault of the drill or the seller of the drill.

    It was also probably too large/powerful a tool for what you were using it for, or were able to handle correctly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭nibtrix


    mrjoneill wrote: »
    Did not expect a DIY tool would be capable of causing a serious injury, or capable of wrenching ones shoulder out of its socket.

    I thought it broke your finger? Whose shoulder was wrenched out of its socket by a drill?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,953 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    nibtrix wrote: »
    I thought it broke your finger? Whose shoulder was wrenched out of its socket by a drill?

    One of those drills they use in mining might, but I doubt yer common-or-garden diy drill would be capable.


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