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First Officer

2

Comments

  • #32
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,668 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Whatever potential Chakotay's character had was lost at the end of the pilot when they put him in a Starfleet uniform and made him into Janeway's lapdog. Instead of getting weak at the knees whenever Janeway was around, he should have constantly been at her throat with one eye on mutiny.

    And re Riker, they should have done The Pegasus much earlier in the show's run. As an explanation for why Riker was still on the Enterprise, it came far too late. Oh and I always thought Riker should have died at the end of Second Chances and been secretly replaced by his transporter twin Thomas. It would have been a brilliant twist.


  • #33
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Sad Professor wrote: »
    And re Riker, they should have done The Pegasus much earlier in the show's run. As an explanation for why Riker was still on the Enterprise, it came far too late.

    Was it ever intended to explain why Riker was still on the Enterprise, by that stage, he had been offered the Captains Chair three times...
    Oh and I always thought Riker should have died at the end of Second Chances and been secretly replaced by his transporter twin Thomas. It would have been a brilliant twist.

    I seem to remember the same thing happening the Professor in Sliders, twas a great little twist.


  • #34
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,668 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Well, it was a reason for keeping him on the Enterprise. Prior to that it seemed he was just hanging around waiting for Picard to die or retire. It didn't make sense given how ambitious he used to be and I think it hurt his character in the long run.


  • #35
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Sad Professor wrote: »
    Well, it was a reason for keeping him on the Enterprise.

    The Pegasus Incident? How?


  • #36
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,668 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    It destroyed his reputation. Picard's words at the end of the episode seemed to imply that nobody would be offering him a command anytime soon as a result.


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  • #37
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Sad Professor wrote: »
    It destroyed his reputation. Picard's words at the end of the episode seemed to imply that nobody would be offering him a command anytime soon as a result.

    Yeah I see what you mean. It took a further nine years for Riker to finally sit in the Captains Chair after the reveal about the Pegasus.

    I dunno, to me Riker was very ambitious as you say, but the reasons he stayed were more to do with the affections he gained for the crew & ship during his years as first officer. I think loyalty overshadowed ambition for Riker, which is why he's so likeable


  • #38
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,639 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    Put it this way lads...
    would you rather be 2nd in command of the Flagship Nimitz Class Carrier Gerald Ford... 775px-CVN-78_Artist_Image.jpg
    or
    ... Captain of this
    nic3.jpg

    Yes its your ship.. but its a crappy ship.
    On the Enterprise he would have a large input into important matters, as a Captain of some far off ship he wouldnt.


  • #39
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,668 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Surely Riker pre-Pregasus would have had his pick of ships? He did save Earth from the Borg after all. And there were other Galaxy class starships like the Enterprise.


  • #40
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,639 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    Sad Professor wrote: »
    Surely Riker pre-Pregasus would have had his pick of ships? He did save Earth from the Borg after all. And there were other Galaxy class starships like the Enterprise.

    But the ships that were mentioned werent galaxy class.
    The Melbourne (i think) was destroyed by the Borg and it was a old class and I think the one of in some other part of the quadrant was a Nebula class

    I'm sure that if a Galazy class had some up, he would have taken it..


  • #41
    nyarlothothep
    Registered Users Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    I think Riker stayed on board the Enterprise as all his friends and Troi were there, he was "seasoned" enough to realise that it's the people you're with that make life enjoyable to quite a degree and he'd progressed far enough in his career on board the flagship to render the advantages of ambition to be less than the benefits of remaining on the Ent.


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  • #42
    downwithpeace
    Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭downwithpeace


    helimachoptor wrote: »
    But the ships that were mentioned werent galaxy class.
    The Melbourne (i think) was destroyed by the Borg and it was a old class and I think the one of in some other part of the quadrant was a Nebula class

    I'm sure that if a Galazy class had some up, he would have taken it..

    Second ship was a Renaissance class ship called the Aries, built for deep space exploration.


  • #43
    norrie rugger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    downwithpeace wrote: »
    Second ship was a Renaissance class ship called the Aries, built for deep space exploration.

    Yet he takes the Titan, deep space exploration ship.
    Troi really seems to be the answer here


  • #44
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    nyarlothothep wrote: »
    I think Riker stayed on board the Enterprise as all his friends and Troi were there, he was "seasoned" enough to realise that it's the people you're with that make life enjoyable to quite a degree and he'd progressed far enough in his career on board the flagship to render the advantages of ambition to be less than the benefits of remaining on the Ent.

    This
    norrie rugger wrote: »
    Yet he takes the Titan, deep space exploration ship.
    Troi really seems to be the answer here

    Also true, maybe there were parts of him still attached to her that wern't fully developed by writers/plot.

    Also by the Titan came around, I think he was more established as a person of authority, & fit the captains seat much better when he was at the Nemesis level, than say, Best Of Both Worlds era.

    Also, with the destruction of the Enterprise-D, maybe it was the little kick he needed to go out & really take command. Finally also, I'd like to imagine that it was quietly whispered to Riker than Picard was likely to step down within a few years, & that he should go out & get actual command experience as he would then be the man to take command of the Enterprise...but that's the wishful thinking Trek geek in me :o


  • #45
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    Surely Riker should of gotten command of a ship during the Dominion War?


  • #46
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    Surely Riker should of gotten command of a ship during the Dominion War?

    I'm sure he could have, but wasn't ready to leave at that stage. Plus the Federation were taking heavy losses, many ships were destroyed & were being destroyed faster than they could be rebuilt...so maybe there was a shortage of ships rather than Captains for them?

    I always thought they should have done a two parter episode during the DS9 last season involving the Enterprise-E. That ship is criminally underused & unseen


  • #47
    downwithpeace
    Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭downwithpeace


    EnterNow wrote: »
    I always thought they should have done a two parter episode during the DS9 last season involving the Enterprise-E. That ship is criminally underused & unseen

    That would have been nice but I suspect the lack of DS9 Sovereign-class ships was down to movie exclusives, annoying since they were the most powerful Federation ships at the time and would have been involved in most major attacks into Cardassian territory.

    The class is mentioned a few times but never seen.


  • #48
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    downwithpeace wrote: »
    That would have been nice but I suspect the lack of DS9 Sovereign-class ships was down to movie exclusives, annoying since they were the most powerful Federation ships at the time and would have been involved in most major attacks into Cardassian territory.

    The class is mentioned a few times but never seen.

    Actually yeah, the bloody whole class isn't seen let alone the Enterprise! Could it really be a movie-exclusive clause? After all, isn't Star Trek simply Star Trek...

    Though now that you mention it, it's probably some kind if ILM clause as to why the Sovereign class was unseen in DS9/Dominion War.


  • #49
    downwithpeace
    Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭downwithpeace


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Actually yeah, the bloody whole class isn't seen let alone the Enterprise! Could it really be a movie-exclusive clause? After all, isn't Star Trek simply Star Trek...

    Though now that you mention it, it's probably some kind if ILM clause as to why the Sovereign class was unseen in DS9/Dominion War.

    There might have been a separation in production companies at the times, one for TV and one for Movies like they have now. The lure of a new ship would have had an effect on the movies for sure. ILM clause?


  • #50
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    downwithpeace wrote: »
    There might have been a separation in production companies at the times, one for TV and one for Movies like they have now. The lure of a new ship would have had an effect on the movies for sure. ILM clause?

    Didn't ILM have input somehow into the Sovereign Class? I could be wrong, but I thought they built it for First Contact (it was a model for most of that movie & moved to CGI from Insurrection onwards).

    Read something years ago, I could well be wrong though


  • #51
    downwithpeace
    Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭downwithpeace


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Didn't ILM have input somehow into the Sovereign Class? I could be wrong, but I thought they built it for First Contact (it was a model for most of that movie & moved to CGI from Insurrection onwards).

    Read something years ago, I could well be wrong though

    They built it but didn't come up with it so any clause might have been limited to the model and in later movies the CGI creations. If there was a clause then it could have come because the producers were only willing to pay so much that ILM limited the model/CGI usage.

    I'm not sure if the Sovereign Class was the outcome but sometime during season 5-6 of TNG the idea of a newer Enterprise was brought up.


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  • #52
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    Sovvys were just basically diet Galaxy class ships. The Enterprise-E would have kicked arse in the war! If Sisko made one tiny reference to the Enterprise-E winning a battle, I'd be happy. DS9 really dropped the ball there.


  • #53
    Indricotherium
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Indricotherium


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    Sovvys were just basically diet Galaxy class ships. The Enterprise-E would have kicked arse in the war! If Sisko made one tiny reference to the Enterprise-E winning a battle, I'd be happy. DS9 really dropped the ball there.

    But it's just one ship among many.

    One of things that made ds9 great was the way it suggested a huge and diverse galaxy.

    Parachuting in characters from tng to help ailing ratIngs was bad enough. Episodes based around them or shoehorned references would have been awful.


  • #54
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Indricotherium wrote: »
    Episodes based around them or shoehorned references would have been awful.

    A two-parter featuring the Enterprise-E & co with the crew of DS9 would have kicked bottom if done correctly. There's many many possibilities that would have been really good, to blanket them all as 'would have been awful' isn't really fair.


  • #55
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    Indricotherium wrote: »
    But it's just one ship among many.

    One of things that made ds9 great was the way it suggested a huge and diverse galaxy.

    Parachuting in characters from tng to help ailing ratIngs was bad enough. Episodes based around them or shoehorned references would have been awful.

    It's not one ship, it's the flagship. The most advanced ship in the fleet. And DS9 suggesting a huge galaxy? Oh let's see there's a fleet blocking the way to DS9..let's go around it?

    I'm not suggesting they should of brought the TNG crew in, I imagine they didn't want TNG stepping on their shoes, but the Trekkie in me wants to believe Picard and co actually did something during the war. I know they tried to get the TNG crew back for Worfs wedding, and they could only get Beverly and LaForge, so they decided all or nothing.


  • #56
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    EnterNow wrote: »
    A two-parter featuring the Enterprise-E & co with the crew of DS9 would have kicked bottom if done correctly. There's many many possibilities that would have been really good, to blanket them all as 'would have been awful' isn't really fair.

    I never got Insurrection. Why didn't they combine the TNG/DS9 crews? The Enterprise-E rescuing Betazed from the Dominion..


  • #57
    norrie rugger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    I never got Insurrection. Why didn't they combine the TNG/DS9 crews? The Enterprise-E rescuing Betazed from the Dominion..

    Even if not involving the DS9 crew, why did we have films that seemed to completely ignore the Dominion war? A few mentions is all it got yet the entire known Alpha/Beta quads were in bits due to it


  • #58
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    norrie rugger wrote: »
    Even if not involving the DS9 crew, why did we have films that seemed to completely ignore the Dominion war? A few mentions is all it got yet the entire known Alpha/Beta quads were in bits due to it

    I suppose The Dominion War was DS9's baby. They were probably thinking that if going to the bother of making a film, why not explore something new....& they gave us Insurrection & Nemesis. God they were bad films, this kind of sh1te is truly unforgivable



  • #59
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    I think Spock was by far the best


  • #60
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    I don't see how the Pegasus issue can hold a torch up against what Riker did with the Borg.

    He's the most well rounded FO and I loved the many ridiculous faces the character pulled in the many TNG episodes. He pretty much defined what viewers came to expect from an FO in Trek if you ask me.

    Second to Riker is T'Pol IMO just for the complexity of her character and the inherent conflict of her role.

    It's hard to think of Kira as an FO. Her character should have been much more T'Pol-esque. She never performed any of the typical FO duties. I can't ever remember her leading an away team, or credibly taking command in the Captain's absence and actually resolving a situation. She didn't act as an intermediary between the Captain and the rest of the crew. And she didn't even throw her weight around as the "Bajoran liason". There was a chance to make Kira much more of a challenge to Sisko in this respect (because of her backing from the Bajoran Government) but it never happened.


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  • #61
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,931 ✭✭✭Daith


    AngryLips wrote: »
    It's hard to think of Kira as an FO. Her character should have been much more T'Pol-esque. She never performed any of the typical FO duties. I can't ever remember her leading an away team, or credibly taking command in the Captain's absence and actually resolving a situation. She didn't act as an intermediary between the Captain and the rest of the crew. And she didn't even throw her weight around as the "Bajoran liason". There was a chance to make Kira much more of a challenge to Sisko in this respect (because of her backing from the Bajoran Government) but it never happened.

    Well she couldn't be a standard FO because she wasn't Starfleet. I don't think she would have to perform crew evaluations for the Starfleet crew when she didn't go through the Academy herself.

    She led away teams a few times. I remember when her taking command of the Defiant to find out what the Klingon's were looking for. Let's face it though DS9 had far less away missions than any other Trek show.

    She did take command of the Defiant when Sisko was unable to in Tears of the Prophets. Even over Worf! Then she was running the station at the start of season 7. Defying the Federation when the Romulans were putting weapons on a Bajoran moon.

    And the Bajoran liaison stuff was brought up a few times. However when Sisko accepted the Emissary job well he didn't really need a liaison officer cos well he was part God to them.

    I think though even if Kira wasn't a model FO she couldn't have been expected too. However she was hands on, capable of running mission. Had the respect of the crew. Easily able to take command and point out when she thought people were stupid.


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