New SI released, changes to licencing upcoming.

dc99 · 18-09-2015 6:47pm

So, you think (on first review) I could go and apply for - with some level of expectencey, a PPK in .22lr?

Of course my other problem is that I already have a licence for Hammerli...

Sparks · 18-09-2015 6:55pm

dc99 wrote: »

So, you think (on first review) I could go and apply for - with some level of expectencey, a PPK in .22lr?

Of course my other problem is that I already have a licence for Hammerli...

Levels of expectancy are a dangerous concept

But legally, there is no longer any difference in standing between an application for a PPK in .22lr and a Ruger MkII in .22lr. They both satisfy the SI equally, and that's now been made explicit.

gunhappy_ie · 18-09-2015 7:16pm

dc99 wrote: »

So, you think (on first review) I could go and apply for - with some level of expectencey, a PPK in .22lr?

Of course my other problem is that I already have a licence for Hammerli...

I only had a Walther PP (the .22 version) in my hands last week

Grizzly 45 · 18-09-2015 7:44pm

Should be a few of them knocking about on the intl market as they were issued up in the North a PDW to the "Green Finches".Only .22lr pistol to have a STANAG number because of it becoming then an issue firearm to the UK armed forces.

Speaking of which...this legislation would of course come out now in this form and I finally tracked down in Germany a Ruger mini14 GB that was a former RUC rifle..For handy enough money too....:mad: FECKIN typical!!!:mad::(

LATER
Y'know it is remarkeably silent on one thing I thought the would have pushed thru no matter what...GUNSAFES for all firearms,including our agricultural brethern or despite them needing inst access to them at any iven moment of the day or night.

juice1304 · 18-09-2015 7:56pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

d I finally tracked down in Germany a Ruger mini14 GB that was a former RUC rifle..For handy enough money too....:mad: FECKIN typical!!!:mad::(

Where abouts was that? :pac:

Sparks · 18-09-2015 8:05pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Y'know it is remarkeably silent on one thing I thought the would have pushed thru no matter what...GUNSAFES for all firearms,including our agricultural brethern or despite them needing inst access to them at any iven moment of the day or night.

As quiet as the original proposals really.
If, however, those proposals and the gunsafes weren't on the first page of the FCP's new agenda, I'd be surprised.

But then, the FCP was always the right place for stuff like that.

gunhappy_ie · 18-09-2015 8:47pm

Sparks wrote: »

As quiet as the original proposals really.
If, however, those proposals and the gunsafes weren't on the first page of the FCP's new agenda, I'd be surprised.

But then, the FCP was always the right place for stuff like that.

Lunacy that they dont have but proof to me on 1 of 2 things:

(i) that AGS werent really as serious about public safety as they made out

(ii) it was their intention to divide shooting factions and over time made owning a firearm more and more restrictive until few licences existed

Nekarsulm · 18-09-2015 10:09pm

Ah lads, you don't expect Minister for Cows&Guns Coveney to have the biggest glad-handing exercise in his whole year spoiled by an announcement about compulsory gun safes, do you?
Wait till after the Ploughing is over, and he gets to highlight some new EEC scheme, then he might let it be announced when the first trance of SFP money comes out.

It's not as if a farmer with a shotgun and a rifle is exempt from having a safe. Any farmer i know with more than one gun has a safe installed. The Gardai round here insist on it.

garrettod · 19-09-2015 2:13am

The farming community are far too well organised, to risk upsetting in the run up to an election...

Zxthinger · 19-09-2015 10:52am

So this new SI now makes revolvers restricted thereby banning one of the of most benign forms of pistol shooting after air powered units.
How easy would it have been to add a clause to the new SI stating that for the purposes of the subsection a magazine will also mean a cylinder.

Simple stuff really. If anything this exclusion serves to demonstrate any technical input to the process.

pm. · 19-09-2015 11:07am

No mention of semi auto shotguns that I can see are they back in the clear?

Sparks · 19-09-2015 11:13am

pm. wrote: »

No mention of semi auto shotguns that I can see are they back in the clear?

Yes.

Limerick Sovereigns · 19-09-2015 11:27am

I've been holding off on buying a .22 pistol until some clarity emerged. I'm sure that there are others like me.

Will our new applications be portrayed as a "surge" in pistol ownership and used as grounds to trigger this proviso in the announcement?

"The Minister intends to monitor the number of 0.22 inch rim fire calibre
handguns being licensed. In line with her commitment to prevent any
proliferation of handgun availability in Ireland, the Minister today
announced that if there is a significant increase in the number of
applications for new certificates or import licence applications for these
handguns then she will introduce priority legislation for a future cap."

Sparks · 19-09-2015 11:32am

Will our new applications be portrayed as a "surge" in pistol ownership and used as grounds to trigger this proviso in the announcement?

Nobody knows, but that's the reason why we want the FCP restarted. Minister comes to table, asks "Is this 23 new licences a spike?" and someone who actually knows the facts says "er, no. There were less than a thousand licences. If we see 500 more in the first year, you could call it a spike, but you'd want to watch it for longer than the first six months to make sure you're not catching genuine shooters who were waiting on clarification in the licencing".

As opposed to now, when she effectively would ask Garda Ballistics.

Witcher · 19-09-2015 11:46am

Irish Examiner;

Fitzgerald also said she would monitor the number of
0.22 inch rim-fire calibre handguns....
This model of handgun is relatively low-powered and
intended mainly for pest control...

Someone must have been on Wikipedia.

Melodeon · 19-09-2015 11:48am

Strider wrote: »

Irish Examiner;

Someone must have been on Wikipedia.

Grand picture of an AK there too:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/new-rules-to-restrict-firearm-ownership-354740.html

Edited to add:
Here it is in case they take it down, notice the filename :rolleyes:

Sparks · 19-09-2015 12:04pm

/sigh

Sparks · 19-09-2015 12:06pm

*ha* And the comments are disabled right off the bat too

Grizzly 45 · 19-09-2015 12:27pm

From their Face book page

The NASRPC acknowledge that the Minister for Justice, Frances Fitzgerald TD, was the first Minister for Justice to engage with the shooting community, visit a range and initiate a Joint Justice Committee review. This fair and reasonable approach was welcomed and was in stark contrast to the approach adopted by others in the past.
That said, while the NASRPC appreciate the value of the one point clarified by today’s SI and the positive intent behind the Ministers roadmap for change we are disappointed that the opportunity was not taken to increase 0.22lr short firearm magazine capacities to six rounds, as requested, and that the opportunity was not taken to remove the many other reasons used to prevent the issue of new licenses or the renewal of existing licenses to legitimate shooting sports participants.
Furthermore, the Ministers roadmap has to survive a general election and potentially a new Minister.

Witcher · 19-09-2015 12:58pm

Such a pity about the cap on the CF S/A's, M1 Carbine gallery rifle was only starting to take off.

Sparks · 19-09-2015 1:10pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

From their Face book page

Oh for ****s sakes.

The phrase "shut up and get to work to improve things and safeguard things instead of slagging off the first breath of a chance to improve things that we've gotten in the last decade" comes to mind.

Grizzly 45 · 19-09-2015 1:26pm

Strider wrote: »

Such a pity about the cap on the CF S/A's, M1 Carbine gallery rifle was only starting to take off.

This part isnt over by a long shot[excuse the pun] or this possible temp cap on .22 pistols.Reason...There are now a good few gun dealers sitting on stocks of SA CF rifles either in their shops or in whole saler depots on the Continent.Specifically ww2 vintage clasics like the M1 garand and M1 carbine.They are not as cheap as chips on the Continent as they used to be,it is a significant tie up of some dealers finances storing them in whole salers.So what are they going to do with them?Sell them at a loss back in the Continent?You cant sell them to the Uk or NI due to the SA ban.The US wont allow import of them.You can thank O'Bama for that,with him refusing to allow surplus Koren war vintage Garands to be re imported to the US from Korea.Others are sitting here in dealerships in the same prediciment because of people not wanting to fight the court cases and selling them to dealers in trade ins.
There was recomendations in the interim report that CF SA of 1950s vintage should be excluded for this very reason,and this could still be on the cards,IF we get the FCP up and running and/or the dealers make enough noise about this too.

Grizzly 45 · 19-09-2015 1:43pm

Sparks wrote: »

Oh for ****s sakes.

The phrase "shut up and get to work to improve things and safeguard things instead of slagging off the first breath of a chance to improve things that we've gotten in the last decade" comes to mind.

Unfortuneatly,I have to agree with you on this one..5 shot mags or 6 shot cylinders...FS try NO handguns at all!We could have lost a heck of alot more yesterday and have been kerb stomped with legislation that woud have affected us ALL very badly.

However ,this isnt over at all.It will Behoove us ALL to play this carefully with the .22 applications.And TBH this is one thing our organisations had better get in gear in and ask the PTB for some figures as to what thy would consider a "alarming spike" in applications.It just might come to the point that we will have to self police this and simply say that each club can only accept a quota of new handgun only applications a year per club.We are still in a lifeboat people and we might have to ration our water[applications] for the benefit of the sport surviving overall.Lets for once LEARN from our mistakes with the CF handguns.There was a mass application that scared the bejasus out of the PTB and well the rest is history...

Deaf git · 19-09-2015 6:38pm

Check out the very last sentence of the press release. It refers to the effect of court cases on the new arrangements. Yesterdays announcement could be taken as the Minister offering a conditional ceasefire, are court cases taken by individuals going to be considered a hostile act by the shooting community generally?

Traumadoc · 20-09-2015 11:50am

Actually I would fear a centralized firearms appeal process unless it could be challenged legally.

The courts have generally been favorable to our appeals , I would fear the makeup of such a body could be managed in such a way that all appeals could be refused.

It will be interesting to see the makeup of such a body.

Sparks · 20-09-2015 11:53am

That's a risk (like we've said before) but the courts option is still available (and can't be taken away, that's far more fundamental than the Firearms Act).

Cass · 20-09-2015 11:53am

Is it not meant to be pre-DC arbitration? IOW go through this process before going to court, and if that fails court is still a legal option? Of course you can still skip this stage and go straight to court.

Grizzly 45 · 20-09-2015 3:29pm

“The Minister for Justice & Equality, France Fitzgerald TD, published last Friday, September the 18th, a new S.I. governing the licensing of target handguns together with announcing planned new arrangements for the administration of the firearms licensing system, and we now publish those arrangements on the Sports Coalition Website. These announcements come in response to the report and recommendations of the joint review carried out by the Department of Justice and An Garda Siochana this time last year and the response and campaign to that report by the Sports Coalition. Of significance is the fact that all of the arrangements which the Minister has announced were sought by the Sports Coalition. Suffice to say that all firearms currently licensed are safe and there are no proposals to ban anything. Of particular significance for game shooting people is the fact that the proposal to ban certain semi-automatic shotguns is dropped as are the proposals to give An Garda Siochana new powers to refuse firearms licence applications for any firearm.

I wish to express my sincere gratitude to my colleagues in the Sports Coalition for their support and work over the past year. I also wish to thank the many thousands of individual shooting people who contributed actively to our campaign by lobbying their local public representatives. My appreciation also goes to those members of the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice & Equality and particularly its Chairman, David Stanton T.D., for their measured consideration and contributions to resolving what had become a difficult and complicated issue. I also wish to acknowledge the positive and pragmatic approach adopted by Minister Fitzgerald in arriving at her decision. Her planned proposals will in time make a very positive contribution to removing the acromonious and adverserial approach which has categorised firearms licensing in this Country over the past ten years while at the same time taking full account of public safety concerns. It therefore goes without saying that the Sports Coalition welcomes and fully endorses the Ministers announcement. Lastly, I wish to pay tribute to William Egan, Solicitor, who has been a fearless defender of shooting sports for the past twenty years His achievements are unrivalled anywhere in this area. He has provided free legal advice to the Sports Coalition since it was formed which has proved invaluable in our campaign. There are other individuals who are deserving of our gratitude and suffice to say I will be communicating that to those people personally.

Desmond Crofton
National Director – NARGC
&
Spokesperson for the Sports Coalition

turismo2142 · 20-09-2015 11:03pm

Sparks wrote: »

That's a risk (like we've said before) but the courts option is still available (and can't be taken away, that's far more fundamental than the Firearms Act).

Just to clarify; The district court appeal option could theoretically/conceivably be taken away although I doubt that'll ever happen but judicial review (in the high court) will always remain.

Grizzly 45 · 20-09-2015 11:53pm

Would mean having to revamp,yet again the 08/09 act to remove the DC appeal?

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New SI released, changes to licencing upcoming.

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