Aer Lingus transfer SNN-LHR flights to BFS

Schuhart · 05-08-2007 10:41pm #1

Aer Lingus is set to cease direct flights between Shannon and Heathrow and transfer the link to Aldergrove airport in Northern Ireland.

The official announcement will be made by the Aer Lingus chief executive Vermot Mannion after he meets Aer Lingus personnel in Shannon on Tuesday morning and then attends a news conference at Stormont on Tuesday afternoon.

Sort of changes perceptions of what 'Ireland' is when you forget the border.

As for Shannon, given the amount of business they lost the country because of their penchant for transatlantic piracy, all I can think is 'Ha Ha'.

Sarsfield · 06-08-2007 1:39am

It's going to be fun watching the reaction to this. The local pols Shannonside must be apoplectic.

Irish Wolf · 06-08-2007 1:58am

It actually will be very intersting to see how our minister of defense reacts to this decision.. it's not in his constituency but it will affect a lot of people who are..

Seems like an odd decision to me as the flight was pretty much always full anytime I took it.. and it cuts everyone off in the Mid West region who are hoping to get a connection through LHR..

Zoney · 06-08-2007 10:38am

Sarsfield wrote:

It's going to be fun watching the reaction to this. The local pols Shannonside must be apoplectic.

Quite right. It's a disaster for quite a large part of the country. We should really all just give up now and move to Greater Dublin and resign ourselves to several hours commuting each day.

Irish Wolf- the decision isn't entirely about patronage of the route - it's about the limited slots at Heathrow. Aer Lingus figure they can make more money servicing a route entirely outside this State. If they had enough slots they'd probably keep Shannon-Heathrow *and* run Aldergrove-Heathrow.

Victor · 06-08-2007 11:09am

Zoney wrote:

Quite right. It's a disaster for quite a large part of the country. We should really all just give up now and move to Greater Dublin and resign ourselves to several hours commuting each day.

Why not move to greater Belfast?

Shannon still has lots of destinations http://www.shannonairport.com/flight-info/index.html?interest=%2Fflight-info%2Findex.html&imageField.x=12&imageField.y=8 (click on View Route Map)

markf909 · 06-08-2007 11:23am

At least when the WRC opens folks in the west will be able to utilise it to take the train to Knock or Cork to get their flights to London.

NewDubliner · 06-08-2007 12:05pm

Zoney wrote:

the decision isn't entirely about patronage of the route - it's about the limited slots at Heathrow. Aer Lingus figure they can make more money servicing a route entirely outside this State.

Well, everyone's been calling for public-sector privitisation and for public-sector outfits to behave more like the provate sector.

Sometimes, if you're unlucky, you get what you wish for.

There was talk on the radio, that local interests in Limerick would call on the government to subsidise the Shannon-Heathrow route.

FlutterinBantam · 06-08-2007 12:10pm

Why all the fuss.???

Aer Lingus Mgmnt are doing what they are paid to do,manage the resources of the airline to provide the best return for the shareholders.

Tough on Shannon, but the folk in Mullingar and Carlow havn't a direct service to LHR either.

Get over it and get on with it.

antoinolachtnai · 06-08-2007 12:31pm

The issue is that the whole point of the State maintaining a 25 percent share in the airline was that stuff like this wasn't supposed to happen. Now it has happened. It turns out that Aer Lingus can do anything they like with those Heathrow slots.

It happened this way because the government didn't structure the sale of the company properly. Now the government is sitting with a useless, worthless 25 percent stake in the company which is of no use whatsoever to influence the airline and is nothing but a political liability.

Hagar · 06-08-2007 12:34pm

I think that there is a longer term agenda for Shannon that is not being made public. I think we will see it becoming more militarised and not by the Irish Army. I suspect it may well become a permanent major staging post for the US with a full time military base there. It's being drained of all other viability so that when the military option is put forward, no matter how un-palletable it is, it will have to be accepted or close down the place completely.

Crackpot conspiracy theory? Maybe. Time will tell.

bowsie casey · 06-08-2007 12:40pm

... and now a large number of displaced SNN-LHR travellers will have to travel via Dublin, adding to an already over-crowded mess !!

I think it's a disgrace for the people of the West of Ireland that such essential infrastructure facilities can be taken away. Aer Lingus is now a private companym and can do what it likes, but the Government needs to ensure in some way that further marginalization of people in the Mid West is not allowed to continue.

Schuhart · 06-08-2007 12:46pm

bowsie casey wrote:

... and now a large number of displaced SNN-LHR travellers will have to travel via Dublin, adding to an already over-crowded mess !!

Or they could try Cork. But you are right. We should see Dublin as a national resource and invest in it accordingly, instead of hamstring it like we did with the Shannon stopover.

bowsie casey wrote:

the Government needs to ensure in some way that further marginalization of people in the Mid West is not allowed to continue.

Like hijack planes and force them to land there, like they used to do to transatlantic flights?

bowsie casey · 06-08-2007 1:05pm

Schuhart wrote:

Or they could try Cork. But you are right. We should see Dublin as a national resource and invest in it accordingly, instead of hamstring it like we did with the Shannon stopover.

That is not what I said....there is no need for Ireland to have most of the population going through Dublin airport. A more balanced approach with support for regional airports will improve the economic development opportunities throughout Ireland, rather than just in the Pale.

As for flying from Cork....it would be quicker to drive to Dublin for anybody north of Limerick. Of course, this is only adding to the already congested roads....

Schuhart · 06-08-2007 1:19pm

bowsie casey wrote:

A more balanced approach with support for regional airports will improve the economic development opportunities throughout Ireland, rather than just in the Pale.

Shannon got the breaks and failed to deliver. Time to give someone else a chance.

I'm not sure mindsets have quite got the message - we're now in a situation where we are looking back at the failure of the policy of dotting the Western seaboard with airports. Why did the Mid West fail to leverage the expensive benefits given to it?

bowsie casey wrote:

As for flying from Cork....it would be quicker to drive to Dublin for anybody north of Limerick. Of course, this is only adding to the already congested roads....

Unfortunately, fantasy has to meet reality at some stage. As you know, road journey times are being addressed so this picture of congested roads is hardly meaningful as people are already talking in terms of the Cork alternative.

At present, its a choice if you really need to be in LHR. Drive to Dublin if that's truly quicker and put up with congestion or drive to Cork and avail of their nice new terminal. That's as much choice as people in Mullingar have.

Flukey · 06-08-2007 2:21pm

They could reduce, but not withdraw. There is no need to cut the service completely. If it is not paying its way, but they are getting passengers, then just reduce the Shannon service and start a Belfast service too.

FlutterinBantam · 06-08-2007 4:32pm

They could reduce....... yes they could..... but....

Its the cost of maintaining ground coverage and handling that dictates this decision. People work 8 hrs a day irrespective of the workload and to reduce would bring in a part time situation which would not be viable in the long run.

Its a commercial decision which was inevitable once the airline was privatised.

it would be like the GAA using Cusack Park Ennis capacity say 20,000 for a big Dubs game,when Croker with an 80k+ capacity lay fallow.

Shannon has very little commercial importance as a MAJOR Intl airport due to geographical reasons. Its future lies in low cost regional traffic.

Let's get a bit real here please.

gjim · 06-08-2007 4:54pm

antoinolachtnai wrote:

It happened this way because the government didn't structure the sale of the company properly. Now the government is sitting with a useless, worthless 25 percent stake in the company which is of no use whatsoever to influence the airline and is nothing but a political liability.

Absolutely correct. The 25% is worthless; it's worse than worthless because it encourages ineffectual politcal meddling. The landing slots should have been hived off into a separate holding entity. This holding company would be 100% publicly owned while the actual airline could have been sold off completely. The holding company could lease the slots to Aer Lingus (or any other airline, for that matter) which would retain public control of the Heathrow slots without any state ownership of any airline.

BuffyBot · 06-08-2007 5:03pm

Its the cost of maintaining ground coverage and handling that dictates this decision. People work 8 hrs a day irrespective of the workload and to reduce would bring in a part time situation which would not be viable in the long run.

Not nessecarily. That's what groundhandling companies like Aviance etc are for.

FlutterinBantam · 06-08-2007 5:22pm

And Aer Lingus have a big history in using ground handling companies IN IRELAND have they???

PhoenixRising · 06-08-2007 5:45pm

The public got what the public wanted - a privatised Aer Lingus. You can't cry foul when Aer Lingus now acts in the interests of it's shareholders and not the State.

antoinolachtnai · 06-08-2007 5:53pm

Flukey wrote:

They could reduce, but not withdraw. There is no need to cut the service completely. If it is not paying its way, but they are getting passengers, then just reduce the Shannon service and start a Belfast service too.

Well, this is supposed to be a service for business passengers. If you don't have a certain level of frequency, it's just not worth bothering. You're better to close it up completely. (It becomes like the 86 bus route in Dublin.)

BendiBus · 06-08-2007 6:03pm

Maybe Shannon Airport could get out there, act like a business (like Aer Lingus is doing) and compete for some business instead of demanding it as a God given right.

There are plenty of airlines and other hubs (Amsterdam, Paris, Frankfurt). Or Heathrow with another carrier.

If Shannon has a good case to make then they can win these routes. If not, then why should they get them?

testicle · 06-08-2007 6:05pm

Schuhart wrote:

As for Shannon, given the amount of business they lost the country because of their penchant for transatlantic piracy, all I can think is 'Ha Ha'.

That was the Government. Shannon didn't have the authority to do anything on its own until a few years ago

antoinolachtnai · 06-08-2007 6:15pm

BendiBus wrote:

Maybe Shannon Airport could get out there, act like a business (like Aer Lingus is doing) and compete for some business instead of demanding it as a God given right.

There are plenty of airlines and other hubs (Amsterdam, Paris, Frankfurt). Or Heathrow with another carrier.

If Shannon has a good case to make then they can win these routes. If not, then why should they get them?

The problem with other hubs is that you won't be able to fill a plane to these destinations or anything like it. The longer flight time means that a lot more capital is required to service these routes to the same frequency. And not everyone is flying east.

And getting to Heathrow with another carrier just won't happen, because all of the landing slots are already committed to other things.

dowlingm · 06-08-2007 6:32pm

If the Government want to prop up Shannon, they should move the Air Corps HQ and fixed wing ops to SNN, rotary to the Curragh, the Government jollyjets to DUB and close/sell Baldonnel. (If the Navy can call Cork home...)

Messing around in commercial ops should be resisted by EI as well as FR and the other commercial operators to UK dests.

Schuhart · 06-08-2007 6:50pm

testicle wrote:

That was the Government. Shannon didn't have the authority to do anything on its own until a few years ago

Lets not be disingenuous. The stopover was the result of loobying by Shannon airport advocates - who even got our Government to use up political capital in Washington to lobby to keep the stopover for as long as possible.

Shannon was quite happy with politically motivated decisions so long as they were the beneficiaries, and regardless of the costs on anyone else.

FlutterinBantam · 06-08-2007 7:13pm

Exactly!!!

The_Conductor · 06-08-2007 7:31pm

Personally I think that it is a shame that the routes are to be closed and moved to Belfast instead. The idea of the government subsidising a Shannon to LHR route, is unfortunately, a total non-runner. Aside from the legalities- it would by definition be an illegal state aid, not covered under the De Minis rules.

As others have pointed out again and again on this thread- Shannon is an unusual airport. Its being and raison d'etre are political in nature, and down the years it was supported through actions that had no economic reasoning in nature.

What we really have to remember is that Ireland is a tiny country- and its simply not possible to have an airport, a hospital, a university, a manufacturing base etc- in every county and consituency. Ireland seems to operate on the basis of parochial politics- where everyone wants everything in their immediate vicinity and doesn't really care what the implications of policies such as that are on the rest of the people in the country.

Despite the loss of the LHR slots from Shannon- instead of wailing to our politicians to try to do something- why not proactively try to see what could be done to capitalise on the situation? I.e. LHR is full, but the other London airports are not- and Stansted is due to open a second runway and have a dedicated rail-link to Paddington by 2014 (funding was approved in February of this year).

A conscious decision to invest all our political capital at Shannon over the years has meant that the other 2 main airports are dreadfully under developed (with the exception of the lovely new terminal at Cork- which is brilliant). Cork badly needs its main runway elongated, so it can handle new A300 and future style aircraft, Dublin needs both a new terminal along with massive elongation of its runways.

By rights if the budget airlines were shifted out of Dub (along the lines as was proposed by Ulick McEvady)- and viable raillinks between the two airports established, Dublin might be able to function (its not functional at the moment- its a sodding disaster).

The big problem here in Ireland is there is no joined up thinking, and there never has been. Its a series of plastering over cracks as they occur, and pandering to local politicians demands and bargaining. What we really need to do is recognise that we are a small little country operating in an open economy- and buckle down and act like one- helping each other out rather than moaning and bitching and backstabbing each other at every opportunity. So what that the Dubliners have an international airport- they also have average 3 hour commutes every day. So what that Cork has a new terminal- and it hasn't been paid for- I don't remember anyone holding up a sign to say Sligo people aren't allowed to use it. So what that we don't have cancer care facilities in every county in the country- as a country as a whole, Ireland and France are considered to be yards ahead of the rest of Europe.

The degree of pettiness in this country never ceases to amaze me.......

BuffyBot · 06-08-2007 8:29pm

FlutterinBantam wrote:

And Aer Lingus have a big history in using ground handling companies IN IRELAND have they???

In the past, no. But that's the past.

dowlingm · 06-08-2007 8:35pm

Zoney wrote:

Aer Lingus figure they can make more money servicing a route entirely outside this State.

Well... there are *at least* 4 TDs that don't consider BFS "outside the State".

The_Conductor · 06-08-2007 8:38pm

dowlingm wrote:

*at least*

Lol.....
Most of the rest of the population doesn't either

We've all had history rammed down our throats afterall!

Aer Lingus transfer SNN-LHR flights to BFS

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