Dublin Bus workers threaten strike

January · 10-11-2007 11:36pm

Any idea if they're going on strike yet, I have to make alternative travel arrangements and it's not going to be easy...

spareman · 11-11-2007 1:15am

Im not arguing any more stupid nity points with people on boards, here's what I know, Management have decided to change the work practice's of staff in Harristown Garage without agreement, In other words they will force drivers to travel 11 km further to start work, without consulting them. Staff in harristown have refused to accept these new roster's and as a result have given there union a Mandate for industrial action.

Industrial action will begin when management try to force drivers to work the new roster's, the 1st driver will refuse, he will be suspended, and all drivers in Harristown will be at the gate. This is likely to happen at 6am monday morning, now given that Dublin Bus has a number of properties in the Dublin area, A union member who is in dispute with Dublin bus can picket any property owned by Dublin Bus, So I would say if This is not resolved by Lunch time on Monday, every bus in the city will be parked up.

Now before you go replying and quoting me I would just like to point out that this is my opinion of what will happen, I am not an expert in industrial relations or union matters, or the internal working's of Dublin bus management.

If you want to know if the strike will go ahead phone Harristown Depot and ask are they going to start the new roster's on monday, if the answer is yes they above may happen.

As far as Im aware there has been no contact between the union's and Dublin bus.

Alot of our drivers in harristown would live north of the garage, So if your boss asked you to go and work 11 km further than you already travel to work would that be ok with you?

spareman · 11-11-2007 1:17am

adrieanne__x wrote: »

Any idea if they're going on strike yet, I have to make alternative travel arrangements and it's not going to be easy...

You should ask Dublin Bus, they are the only people who know, If they try to implement the unagreed roster's, then there will be strike action, If they decide to talk to the unions then there may not be strike action, Phone them and see what they will do, Id love to know myself, I may need the long johns with me on monday.

MiniD · 11-11-2007 1:45am

spareman wrote: »

Alot of our drivers in harristown would live north of the garage, So if your boss asked you to go and work 11 km further than you already travel to work would that be ok with you?

People travel all distances to work, that should bear no relevance on the job they do. Can I ask, how does a driver who may be working eg. the 11 bus work their shift?

This is a cross city route and doesn't pass by Donnybrook garage. How do those drivers take over a journey from another driver?

For the record, I'm not arguing "stupid nity points". We're discussing possible citywide disruption of bus services from Monday morning. As a passenger, I'm genuinely interested in the reasons for this strike. I understand drivers may have to travel to the city centre to get their bus. Given that they are paid for this travel as part of the shift, and this arrangement has been approved by the Labour Court, I honestly don't understand why drivers have a problem. This arrangement exists in all other Dublin Bus garages and has done for years, yet the only difference I can see here is that Harristown is further away from the City Centre.

Nobody has offered an alternative to operating a cross-city route without drivers ending their shift in the city centre. What do these drivers suggest should happen when they finish their shift?

According to the Dublin Bus website, the 128 is due to begin today, Sunday November 12th. It now seems like this won't be happening and there will be a city-wide strike on Monday. Despite all the media coverage, there is no mention of this possible disruption on the Dublin Bus website, there is no travel advice of alternative modes of transport available to customers. Once again, the customer/passenger come last in all of this. As a result, people like Adrieanne are left wondering if they can go about their normal day on Monday.

jimmycrackcorm · 11-11-2007 3:06am

spareman wrote: »

A union member who is in dispute with Dublin bus can picket any property owned by Dublin Bus, So I would say if This is not resolved by Lunch time on Monday, every bus in the city will be parked up.

The evils of trade unionism exposed. Instead of localising the dispute the travelling public get to be the unions ammunition.

patrickc · 11-11-2007 3:12am

I for one agree with the drivers on this one, and am by no means connected to them

dub_commuter · 11-11-2007 2:04pm

Harristown will be closed on Monday and likely for longer.

gazzer · 11-11-2007 2:13pm

I thought that drivers already started shifts from the city centre so what is the problem??? I have often been on buses where the drivers switched in Parnell St and O'Connell St. I presume the drivers had to come in from their garage to meet the bus in town. So what is different in Harristown??

I work in the Civil Service and we can be moved to any section of a department once it is within a 20 Km(or could be mile) radius of the office we are currently in.. I work in the city centre but could be moved to Ashtown or Maynooth or anywhere that is not on my direct route from where I live but I would still have to make it there and thats that..

jahalpin · 11-11-2007 2:15pm

I think the stike is a complete disgrace. It's about time that semi-state emplyees started living in the real world.

Drivers on most routes change over in the city centre and Dublin Bus provides a large canteen etc. on one of the streets just off O'Connell Street.

The buses from Harristown depot are among the dirtiest and most unrelaible in the fleet.

If I were a union official I would be more worried about the privitisation of the bus services and how this would affect my members rather than where someone has to get on and off a bus

It's about time the unions understood that Dublin Bus is there to provide a service to its customers rather than to its staff.

The labour court ruled against the union on this issue and the unions should respect their decision.

My workplace recently moved from the City Centre to near Harristown and most staff understood that it was in the best interest of the business

As for the drivers in Clontarf garage threatening to go out on strike in sympathy, this would be illegal and any staff taking part should be immediately dismissed from their jobs

spareman · 11-11-2007 2:16pm

Drivers in Harristown are being given 46mins overtime to travel between harristown and the city on top of there working day, so if a driver is working an 8 hour shift lets say 9am to 5pm, He must now turn up at harristown at 08.14 and catch a bus to the city for 9am, and then travel back when he is finished at 5pm, supposedly arriving at harristown at 5.46pm.
This will lead to serious delays for passengers waiting for driver's to arrive at handover points, it will also prolong the bus driver's working day even though they will be paid for it, they did not ask for extra hours. I dont agree with all out strike myself, I believe in the no fares metod of industrial action, for the first week at least. Its up to the company weather there will be industrial action, we have given them notice of pending industrial action if they pursue there agenda of forceing changes on staff with no negotiations or agreement, I cant tell you if you will have a bus or not come monday, the only people who know is the management at Harristown.

The evils of trade unionism exposed. Instead of localising the dispute the travelling public get to be the unions ammunition.

Im not going to get into a debate with anti union people on boards anymore, just to say the evils of both sides have been exposed here. Drivers are angry at the company and as a result our passengers are angry with us, We are doing this in the passengers interest aswell as our own, Most routes that hand over in the garages are much more reliable than other route's, and I think passengers will agree with me there.

spareman · 11-11-2007 2:20pm

jahalpin wrote: »

I think the stike is a complete disgrace. It's about time that semi-state emplyees started living in the real world.

Drivers on most routes change over in the city centre and Dublin Bus provides a large canteen etc. on one of the streets just off O'Connell Street.

The buses from Harristown depot are among the dirtiest and most unrelaible in the fleet.

If I were a union official I would be more worried about the privitisation of the bus services and how this would affect my members rather than where someone has to get on and off a bus

It's about time the unions understood that Dublin Bus is there to provide a service to its customers rather than to its staff.

The labour court ruled against the union on this issue and the unions should respect their decision.

My workplace recently moved from the City Centre to near Harristown and most staff understood that it was in the best interest of the business

As for the drivers in Clontarf garage threatening to go out on strike in sympathy, this would be illegal and any staff taking part should be immediately dismissed from their jobs

Another boards expert who hasn't got a clue.:rolleyes:

trellheim · 11-11-2007 2:22pm

The previous poster shows little knowledge of past industrial relations in this country if saying that refusing to pass a picket would get you fired.

Although I may be wrong ; post examples [ sorry spareman you got in before me, meant jahalpin ]

dub_commuter · 11-11-2007 2:31pm

spareman wrote: »

Drivers in Harristown are being given 46mins overtime to travel between harristown and the city on top of there working day, so if a driver is working an 8 hour shift lets say 9am to 5pm, He must now turn up at harristown at 08.14 and catch a bus to the city for 9am, and then travel back when he is finished at 5pm, supposedly arriving at harristown at 5.46pm.

This will lead to serious delays for passengers waiting for driver's to arrive at handover points, it will also prolong the bus driver's working day even though they will be paid for it, they did not ask for extra hours.

Exactly and thats not acceptable, a good comparison is you start at work at 9am and before you go to work every morning you must go to head office which is ages away to pick up one little piece of paper, only then can you head to work even if it means double backing on yourself. You end up leaving earlier than you need to if you went to work directly.

Then in the evening when you finish work at 5pm, you have to drop this thing into head office again before you can go home, which means you may have to double back again, which means you have to head to head office every day before and after work before you can go home, so whilst you finish at 5, you may not start heading home until six.

I dont agree with all out strike myself, I believe in the no fares metod of industrial action, for the first week at least. Its up to the company weather there will be industrial action, we have given them notice of pending industrial action if they pursue there agenda of forceing changes on staff with no negotiations or agreement, I cant tell you if you will have a bus or not come monday, the only people who know is the management at Harristown.

From what I hear local management is not the problem, more head office that are forcing local management to do whatever they say. There was a few Harristown Driver's on Friday and yesterday not taking fares apparentley because their machines were broke, but I very much doubt this but would not taking fares leave them open to further action? Drivers were earlier advising people to use private services where possible.

Im not going to get into a debate with anti union people on boards anymore, just to say the evils of both sides have been exposed here. Drivers are angry at the company and as a result our passengers are angry with us, We are doing this in the passengers interest aswell as our own, Most routes that hand over in the garages are much more reliable than other route's, and I think passengers will agree with me there.

I fully agree, the Harristown routes are all very reliable from what I have experienced, the drivers are very friendly, always willing to help and should be set as an example for some of the other routes around the company are operated, instead it seems that Dublin Bus would prefer to trumpet the models which results in unreliable service. From listening to a few conversations yesterday, the fear is that if they do this to the new routes they will do it to all the other routes during their next timetable refresh as well so screwing up the whole of north Dublin.

I absolutely hate the unions they strike for bloody strange reasons at times and i never have supported them in my life. I do today though.

dub_commuter · 11-11-2007 2:41pm

jahalpin wrote: »

I think the stike is a complete disgrace. It's about time that semi-state emplyees started living in the real world.

Drivers on most routes change over in the city centre and Dublin Bus provides a large canteen etc. on one of the streets just off O'Connell Street.

The buses from Harristown depot are among the dirtiest and most unrelaible in the fleet.

If I were a union official I would be more worried about the privitisation of the bus services and how this would affect my members rather than where someone has to get on and off a bus

It's about time the unions understood that Dublin Bus is there to provide a service to its customers rather than to its staff.

The labour court ruled against the union on this issue and the unions should respect their decision.

My workplace recently moved from the City Centre to near Harristown and most staff understood that it was in the best interest of the business

As for the drivers in Clontarf garage threatening to go out on strike in sympathy, this would be illegal and any staff taking part should be immediately dismissed from their jobs

What a load of crap you speak.

spareman · 11-11-2007 2:46pm

Just hearing a driver has been suspended at harristown in the last hour, So looks like we will have no buses on monday.
On behalf of myself and other driver's I would like to apolagise to the traveling public and regular bus users.
We are sorry it has come to this, Nobody wanted strike action, We have been backed into a corner by managements forced changes of work practice's.

Quotes taken from our Bus driver site;

We are currently aranging for members to be sent to each dublin bus property and speaking with our colleagues in BE and IE. There are no talks to be held today as HQ will not join union reps

At this point there is a chance of a full all company strike tommorow by mid-day. If any Dublin Bus management are reading this I urge them to come to negotiations to help us avoid this situation.

dub_commuter · 11-11-2007 2:52pm

From the Dublin Bus Site

Due to industrial action by bus drivers in Harristown Bus Garage, services operating from this garage will be disrupted on Monday 12th November 2007.

The main areas which will be affected are Finglas, Swords, Ballymun, Blanchardstown, Donabate, Portrane, Dunboyne, Littlepace, Tyrrelstown, Damastown, Portmarnock, Kinsealy and Kilmore.

The following routes will have NO service:
4, 13, 13a, 17a, 27b, 33b, 37x, 39x, 39b, 40, 40a, 40b, 40c, 40d, 70x, 83, 102, 105, 127, 129, 142, 230, 237, 238, 239.

The following routes will have a LIMITED service:
27x, 37, 38/a, 38c, 39, 41, 41c, 41x, 43, 70/a, 270

27x
The following departures will not operate from Clare Hall 0725, 0805, 0820, 0910 and the following departures will not operate from UCD 1540, 1600, 1645, 1705.

37
The following departures will not operate from Carpenterstown 0645, 0725, 0800, 0810, 0820, 0835, 0920, 1610 and the following departures will not operate from the City Centre 0735, 0840, 0930, 1530, 1640, 1700, 1725, 1756.

38/a
The following departures will not operate from Damastown 0635, 0700, 0710, 0730, 0740, 0830, 0850, 0935, 0940, 1040, 1140, 1500, 1520, 1535, 1540, 1615, 1625, 1640, 1650, 1700, 1715, 1725, 1740, and the following departures will not operate from the City Centre 0735, 0820, 0825, 0845, 0930, 1510, 1515, 1540, 1545, 1600, 1630, 1645, 1655, 1700, 1730, 1750, 1815.

38c
The following departures will not operate from Tyrrellstown 0745, 0810, 1030, 1550 and the following departure will not operate from the City Centre 0925.

39
The following departures will not operate from Ongar 0740, 0800, 0806, 0814, 0815, 0821, 0828, 0830, 0835, 0845, 1025, 1515, 1525, 1530, 1545, 1555, 1600, 1610 and the following departures will not operate from the City Centre 0855, 0910, 0920, 0925, 0930, 0935, 1630, 1640, 1650, 1720, 1755.

41
The following departure will not operate from Dublin Airport 0650, the following departures will not operate from Swords Manor 0700, 1245, 1340, 1510, 1755, 1950 and the following departures will not operate from the City Centre 0750, 0752, 0800, 1125, 1255, 1305, 1455, 1825.

41c
The following departures will not operate from Swords Manor 0640, 1135, 1240, the following departures will not operate from the Christian Brothers School 0715, 0745, 0900 and the following departures will not operate from the City Centre 0910, 1355, 1635, 1905.

41x
The following departures will not operate from Swords 0730, 0745 and the following departures will not operate from UCD 1700, 1715, 1730.

43
The following departure will not operate from Swords Business Park 1530 and the following departure will not operate from the City Centre 1630.

70/a
The following departures will not operate from Dunboyne 0720, 0750, 0815, 0830, 0940, 1710 and the following departures will not operate from the City Centre 0835, 1515, 1600, 1630.

270
The following departures will not operate from Dunboyne 0920, 1015, 1600 and the following departures will not operate from Blanchardstown 0855, 0950.

spareman · 11-11-2007 2:57pm

From what I know Harristown members will send union members to all Dublin Bus properties tomorrow morning, so disregard the Dublin bus statement and make alternative arrangements. I cant see any routes operating tomorrow unless this is resolved tonight.

dub_commuter · 11-11-2007 3:00pm

SIPTU STATEMENT

SIPTU Branch Organiser Willie Noone says the Union is willing to reopen negotiations with Dublin Bus on rosters for new routes at Harristown garage and that members are willing to work normally in the meantime. However they will not operate the proposed 4a and 128 routes which management propose to introduce unilaterally on Monday morning.

Mr. Noone was speaking after a two hour long meeting at Harristown on Saturday, November 10, where SIPTU drivers reviewed the situation in the light of yesterday’s ballot for industrial action over the new routes. Seven days' notice of industrial action has been served by SIPTU on the company but the dispute could be triggered earlier, if Dublin Bus unilaterally introduces new rosters without agreement.

“There is no need for disruption to services if Dublin Bus is willing to defer implementation of its decision and re-enter negotiations”, Mr Noone said. “We remain available for talks. There will be no escalation in the dispute unless management chooses to escalate it.”

spareman · 11-11-2007 3:01pm

Apolagies for the miss imformation, Im hearing now, no driver has been suspended yet at harristown. will keep you posted as and when I hear anything further.

dub_commuter · 11-11-2007 3:04pm

If no driver has been suspended then what has escalated it then? From the SIPTU Statement it seems that originally the strike was just for the 4a and the 128, and would only be more if it was escalated, so something must have happened in order for an all out garage strike.

spareman · 11-11-2007 3:09pm

If a driver gets suspended for refusing to operate the new roster's, The other drivers in harristown will strike in support, Whenever this happens there will be no buses out of harristown, then within a few hours all buses will be parked up, If this happens in the morning people will have a bus service on other route's in the AM and no way of getting home in the pm.
I would advise all passengers to make alternative arrangements tomorrow, We dont want to be leaving passengers stranded anywhere.

dub_commuter · 11-11-2007 3:11pm

Press Release:

Dublin Bus has said that the planned introduction of the new Routes 4a, (Ballymun to Stradbrook) and 128, (Clongriffin Park and Ride to Rathmines) will proceed on Monday 12th November in line with the Labour Court Recommendation of October 22nd 2007.

Trade Unions have indicated to the company that in the event of these routes being introduced there will be disruption to bus services operating out of Harristown Garage.

The Company regrets that the Trade Unions intend to engage in this disruption, which will affect up to 12% of our daily customers.

Did they change the routing of 4a at the last minute to not serve Harristown? I'd say that didn't do them any favours with the Unions. From what the above says it seems that they will be suspending people?

spareman · 11-11-2007 3:18pm

I will be gone for the rest of today, have to do a bit of work myself, hopefully management will cancel plans to introduce the new roster's and return to negotiations, Strike is a no win situation.

evad_lhorg · 11-11-2007 3:43pm

so all the southside routes arent effected?

RuggieBear · 11-11-2007 3:47pm

bollix.

me not getting to work tomorrow handily. I usually use the 4 and 40D.

Suppose i'll have to get a 7 and i believe there is a free shuttle bus to the business park i work in.

MiniD · 11-11-2007 3:50pm

dub_commuter wrote: »

Exactly and thats not acceptable, a good comparison is you start at work at 9am and before you go to work every morning you must go to head office which is ages away to pick up one little piece of paper, only then can you head to work even if it means double backing on yourself. You end up leaving earlier than you need to if you went to work directly.

Then in the evening when you finish work at 5pm, you have to drop this thing into head office again before you can go home, which means you may have to double back again, which means you have to head to head office every day before and after work before you can go home, so whilst you finish at 5, you may not start heading home until six.

DubCommuter, can I ask what alternative you would offer in this situation. Do you suggest pulling a bus out of service at peak hours to drive it empty to Harristown so it can change driver?
In the example you gave, there is no reason for a driver to go to Harristown at all. They could travel directly into town from home, using public transport, and start their day there. Likewise, at 5pm, they could simply clock out in the city centre and head home.
The only reason a driver would need to travel to Harristown is if they had a car parked there. Remember, they would be paid to travel back to Harristown to collect their car, so there is no financial loss there.

What is the difference of a Donnybrook driver starting a duty in the City Centre to a Harristown drivers starting their duty in the city?

Again, I would love someone to explain how Dublin Bus could operate this new cross city 128 route without having drivers change in the city centre. Surely a bus is better in service that running empty to a garage to change driver shifts?

is_that_so · 11-11-2007 3:55pm

spareman wrote: »

I will be gone for the rest of today, have to do a bit of work myself, hopefully management will cancel plans to introduce the new roster's and return to negotiations, Strike is a no win situation.

Perhaps you can explain this "lifestyle" comment on it.

The unions said that since its opening, drivers had developed a lifestyle that had evolved around the Harristown depot, as its location near the M50 and M1 allowed them to easily calculate the time needed to arrive and start at the garage.
-The Irish Times 8/11/07

Full Story

Strikes are an indication of failure. IMO it represents an inability to address core issues. "Management" are not the ones that call strikes. Blaming the other side is not the way to get things resolved. IMO CIE unions have always abused the power they have over the general public. Were it a minor dispute in a small factory somewhere you would still be negotiating.

The Labour Court has already found in favour of "Management" proposals.
IALPA managed to come to a deal with Aer Lingus over their new base. Why are the CIE unions incapable of resolving problems?

Hagar · 11-11-2007 3:59pm

is_that_so wrote: »

Why are the CIE unions incapable of resolving problems?

Because they can hold a city, and if necessary, a whole country to ransom, with support from their buddies in the old CIE club.
Why negotiate when you can demand?

dub_commuter · 11-11-2007 4:03pm

MiniD - I'm not prepared to get into an argument, but at the end of the day it boils down to what gives the passengers a better standard of service, I know some locations which is covered by Harristown and another garage, Harristown break, start and finish at the depot, the other route does so in the City Centre. The Harristown route is much more reliable and for that reason I back what they are doing.

I also used a route that was operated by Phibsborough before the Harristown garage opened, the performance of it has increased 200% nearly overnight with a very similar timetable, the only difference was where the breaks were and the shifts started and finished. To a customer they only care that their bus turns up on time every day, none of the politics.

is_that_so - I agree with what you are saying, they should be still negotiating but from what I have read and heard it seems that Dublin Bus are the ones who do not want to negotiate, not the garage. I also agree that CIE Unions have too much power, but in this case I feel they are correct.

MiniD · 11-11-2007 4:17pm

DubCommuter, I certainly don't wish to argue either. You say you don't agree with the plans approved by Dublin Bus and The Labour Court, but you don't explain how you expect this new 128 bus route to run without drivers changing in the city centre?

Dublin Bus workers threaten strike

Comments