yubabill1 wrote: »

Heard nothing either - not holding my breath; they only seem to meet every quarter or so.

Read some of the BAI decisions for pig iron - the framework affords very little control over media sources and c.90% of complaints are dismissed.

However, the BAI do seem to take into account the number of complaints received about a report and I reckon we have about 6 or 7 complaints in, which is more than the BAI would get in an entire quarter.

Don't be surprised when BAI decisions come from a "big picture" "overall" perspective - they like to hide behind this kind of thing.

I reckon Sparks' complaint has the best chance of being upheld in part (mostly because he went into obsessive detail).

Very disappointing that only 7 or 8 of us bothered our ass to make a complaint to the BAI.

knockon wrote: »

Very disappointing that only 7 or 8 of us bothered our ass to make a complaint to the BAI.

People are too ready to accept every edict and proposal from on high.
Back in March I went to a local Gun Clubs "game night" Iin a local pub/restaurant.
listened to two lads discussing the Gardai proposals, and they were chatting like it was already in law! Telling each other how semi auto .23 were going tobe banned, and also all pumps and semi shotguns.
i don't know what it is, that despite all the scandals down the years, lads will swallow any old guff in a fatalistic way. Is there an Irish gene that makes us happy to be oppressed?

Nekarsulm wrote: »

.... Is there an Irish gene that makes us happy to be oppressed?

Yup, apparently it got into the gene pool initially around the Wexford / Waterford region, about 800 years ago and then spread throughout the nation

yubabill1 wrote: »

....6 or 7 BAI complaints is a significant number, all the same. They don't get that many in 3 months, usually - and nearly never that amount about a single broadcast.

I think this is the key point to consider, no matter how small the number its large in terms of the number of complaints the BAI usually get about anything... I'm expecting a favourable ruling from the BAI (albeit, as soft as they can possibly get away with).

Anyone think it might prove worthwhile if we all contacted the BAI now and made it known that we were all in contact with each other and can easily communicate with the press, to let them know that they won't be able to simply "brush us off" on a one by one basis ?

Nekarsulm wrote: »

On your last point, Garret, I wouldn't let them know. Wait till we see what kind of response is received, and whether everyone's response is consistent.

Hi,

My concern would be that it would then be too late, I seem to recall something about not bieng able to appeal a BAI decision (although I'm open to correction)...

Obviously, I'm not suggesting that we invite them over to chat with us here (although in theory, they could if they wanted to engage here), but just to let them know that we "compare notes" etc.

With reference to the recent response that Sparks received, regarding the decision having been made in late June... it hardly takes ten days to send response to each of us saying "Your complaint has been upheld" does it ?

Even better than looking for a creature as rare as an Irish investigative journalist,which has a rarity as much as a breeding pair of unicorns. It can be taken to the Dail and raised as a matter of concern,same as the GSOC finding blameless AGS CS and supers all the time in firearms cases.The more found the better the presentable case.

Decision in the post this morning. Not upheld. Haven't read through the full thing yet.

Why am I in the least bit not surprised?Learn from it.Irish broadcasting media is as anti gun as any other country and the broadcasting complaints authorithy wont hang their comrades in the canteen class of RTE out to dry.Quit thinking the media is our friend or even neutral on this .It isnt ,never has been or will be.

I think we don't need to learn much at all Grizzly; everyone who filed complaints with the BAI would never have trusted Prime Time in the first place (some of us didn't even when asked to). This has been about trying to clean up a mess made by other people.

Had a chance to read the decision; after the reprint of the original complaint/responses/counter-responses, we got a near copy of what RTE had written in their first response. I'll post it when I get a chance to get near a scanner, but it'll be published soon enough anyway.

It would appear that the takeaway is that we were right not to trust Prime Time in the first place; that the SC should never have been gullible enough to trust them; and that in the future, we shouldn't go near them with a barge pole because we don't have an effective means of redress for the inevitable hatchet job.

I have a question.

What would have happened if the complaints had been upheld?

BattleCorp wrote: »

I have a question.
What would have happened if the complaints had been upheld?

Prime Time would have been required to air a retraction and/or correction.
Wouldn't have done much to alleviate the damage the original airing did, but it would have been useful further down the line.

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm trying not to be thick here but how would it have been useful further down the line? Useful in discussions with the Minister, Dept. Justice etc?

Well, yes.
"Deputy McGrath says you lot are an accident waiting to happen".
"Well he says a lot of things, but last time he said them in public, the BAI said..."

An apology might also have been bad press for us.

Very true. But the content of the apology wouldn't have been the point, and we're not talking about the day after it comes out, but months and years afterwards.

To be blunt, the SC should never have jumped at the bait for this in the first place, but since they did and we all got this **** sandwich dumped in front of us, we all had to line up and take a bite.

Personally, I think there's a lesson there, but you know me, I'm biased :rolleyes:

The general public, having seen an apology, wouldn't remember that a gun used in a murder was stolen from a PSNI officer in Northern Ireland. They would remember "stolen gun", and that wouldn't do us any favours.

I think they'd remember the disparity between "privately owned handgun in Ireland" and "stolen service issued handgun from Northern Ireland" though. And so long as they remember the disparity, that's the important bit, if the idea gets out there that what the Gardai say in regard to firearms is not in all cases by default the last word on the situation, that would be useful. When the head of the FPU and the head of the Firearms Unit can present numbers that are provably, mathematically, wrong to the Dail and nobody even thinks to factcheck them because they're the FPU and the Firearms Unit, then the pendulum is a bit too far over to one side and needs some balance.

I'm not exactly in the Fight Da Powa camp and I have a lot more time for the FPU and the Firearms Unit than some but even I check the math.

Letter received from the BAI, complaint not upheld... I'm far from happy !

Can anyone make sense of this?

Complaint 68/15 decision Sept 15

"The Committee found that the risk highlighted in the programme was that legal gun
ownership does present potential risks in terms of theft for criminal activity and also
from the fact that there is always the potential that someone certified to hold a firearm legally may use it to kill. A number of examples were used to highlight these risks and the Committee did not agree that the highlighting of these risks could be taken to mean that those who hold firearms legally are a risk to society."

Or alternatively, "We have made a populist programme, with a strong "scare factor", aimed at the easily alarmed and gullible, and by God, we are going to defend our programme and presenter's to the last"

Maybe it's time the shoe was on the other foot....

Instead of RTE giving us a bit of a hard time with the sort of nonsense they broadcast, why don't we all start giving them a bit of a hard time ?

No reason why a campaign could not be started, calling for a reduction in the number of Radio and TV stations the State provides (after all, there is plenty of choice in the open competitive market, so the State does not need to provide so many services). The sale or both Radio stations and one of the TV stations could bring in siginificant money for the Government, while it would also frighten the life out of many of those very nice people on high salaries, out in Dublin 4.

Sorry for taking the thread a little off topic btw.