Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

DWCommuter · 25-06-2010 11:18am

Hungerford wrote: »

I'm puzzled about why you think the Navan line is unnecessary - I think that provision of a commuter rail link from a major commuter town would seem like a no-brainer to me. It's likely to carry more passengers in a week than the WRC would manage in a month.

Navan is a classic example of our diabolical planning from the Celtic Tiger years whereby people could only afford homes miles from Dublin. Building this railway was just an attempt to feed that frenzied expansion. Now that its all gone bang, its time to get back to some commonsense. Furthermore this line has just been a literal carrot dangled by local politicians to secure votes. Their real agenda was the M3 and they got it. With that road in place the publics appetite for a railway will disappear.

I was always a supporter of it in comparison to the WRC, but I very quickly noticed how seriously uncommitted to it the Government was. The evidence has been outlined on this forum many times. So as I said above, time to get back to reality and move on from building badly planned commuter towns that require €500 million (and thats conservative) railways. In a funny way, its almost as bad as the whole WRC debacle.

dynamick · 25-06-2010 3:14pm

Navan Phase II is likely to proceed now that phase 1 is nearly complete and metro and interconnector are behind schedule. Something Dempsey can do for his constituency that will live on after him. He can point at a (little used) M3 and railway and say that was him.

A completed phase I makes phase II more viable. Also they might save some cash by shutting down the freight line to drogheda and using the new route.

Hungerford · 25-06-2010 5:36pm

DWCommuter wrote: »

Navan is a classic example of our diabolical planning from the Celtic Tiger years whereby people could only afford homes miles from Dublin. Building this railway was just an attempt to feed that frenzied expansion.

Last time I checked the promotion of public transport was a strategic government policy (not that it means much around here). You could also argue that the reopening puts one of the worst closure decisions ever made by CIE right [behind Harcourt St-Bray].

Navan badly needs improved transport links with Dublin and, unlike the WRC, the plans seem relatively sane in terms of engineering and potential ridership.

While we can argue about the dreadful planning which led to the explosion in the town's population, the fact remains that we have to provide for the people who live there now. We can't turn back the clock.

foggy_lad · 25-06-2010 6:10pm

Back onto the whest and galway where although there was a large Que of people waiting to board the Dublin train the ticket checker shut the gate shutting down the boarding to help elderly passengers on with their luggage. A real Victorian scene!

Where are the automated barriers? The west are too backward to deserve a rail corridor at all!

unit 1 · 25-06-2010 6:27pm

Kenny for WRC anyone:D

DWCommuter · 26-06-2010 1:23am

Hungerford wrote: »

Last time I checked the promotion of public transport was a strategic government policy (not that it means much around here). You could also argue that the reopening puts one of the worst closure decisions ever made by CIE right [behind Harcourt St-Bray].

Navan badly needs improved transport links with Dublin and, unlike the WRC, the plans seem relatively sane in terms of engineering and potential ridership.

While we can argue about the dreadful planning which led to the explosion in the town's population, the fact remains that we have to provide for the people who live there now. We can't turn back the clock.

Navan has been provided for. Its called the M3. When the line closed it was NOT one of the worst closure decisions by CIE and NOT even comparable to the Harcourt st line.

Hungerford · 26-06-2010 11:57am

DWCommuter wrote: »

Navan has been provided for. Its called the M3.

But that's not a public transport link.

My attitude would be that while we would all like to turn the clock back and prevent the horrible planning of the Celtic Tiger era, I think that it is important that we put the public transport infrastructure in place in the Dublin region to support future growth.

Then again, I support the development of commuter rail links around all the country's major cities.

DWCommuter · 27-06-2010 1:45am

In my opinion Navan commuters will be more than happy with the tolled M3. (based on the long established cultutre of car ownership and driving everywhere.) Im now on the side of the drawbridge mentality in terms of public transport. (Abort plans to feed the careless and failed development practises.)

A lot of houses in Navan were sold on the basis of the railway, to guillable people. The town should not actually be part of any future growth from now on. The city of Dublin hasn't been developed to its maximum potential yet. T21 is a failed document and will always be based on the Celtic Tiger buiding frenzy. Its now time to assess and re-evaluated what is required in the current situation as this dictates the future

The WRC was and is nothing more than a politically motivated exercise that amounts to a waste of time..

westtip · 28-06-2010 10:22am

DWCommuter wrote: »

The WRC was and is nothing more than a politically motivated exercise that amounts to a waste of time..

and money...

Cookie_Monster · 28-06-2010 10:23am

westtip wrote: »

and money...

and rolling stock...

westtip · 28-06-2010 11:19am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

and rolling stock...

and likely passengers, and drivers, and a timetable that will work....

Judgement Day · 28-06-2010 12:12pm

and post space on Boards.ie

dowlingm · 28-06-2010 4:29pm

Well, it's now government policy that we can only have so many miles of rail - so the price of Tuam will be Nenagh and the price of Claremorris will be Clonmel. The fact that both of those cut are bigger than both of those added is irrelevant, naturally...

westtip · 03-07-2010 11:06pm

was having a pint with somone who lives in cork today visiting his elderly parents here in sligo, he said he would never use the WRC if it went from Sligo to Cork could somene tell me what drugs these people are on?

dynamick · 05-07-2010 11:22am

Sunday Business Post...

CIE seeks €60m for unprofitable rail connection
04 July 2010 By Nicola Cooke

CIE is looking for more than €60 million to carry out the second phase of a rail connection, despite the fact that the route will be unprofitable and will require an ongoing subsidy.

The company is applying to the Department of Transport for funding for phase two of the Western Rail Corridor, a 24-kilometre stretch from Athenry to Tuam.

Engineers and other experts are currently carrying out topographical surveys of the existing line and the lands that surround it, to assess what would be required for the upgrade and how much it would cost.

CIE still owns the existing line, which was closed 30 years ago, and no railway order will be required.

When the surveys are complete, an application for funding will be made.

A CIE spokesman said the track bed and possible changes to the land on the line had to be analysed.

The section of the route would be expected to carry 65,000 passengers in its first year of operation, increasing to double that within five years.

There is more...

T Corolla · 05-07-2010 12:19pm

I would have more faith in this section been more sucessful that the Limerick-Galway section. I see it been similar to that of the midelton rail line opened last year

GM071class · 05-07-2010 12:35pm

dynamick wrote: »

CIE is looking for more than €60 million... ...despite the fact that the route will be unprofitable and will require an ongoing subsidy.

Shocking really,

They'll close the South Wexford because it's 'un-profitable' but they'll open a new un-profitable line instead???

Who's at the controls, and doesn't realise that it's not just a game of toy trains???

corktina · 05-07-2010 2:00pm

T Corolla wrote: »

I would have more faith in this section been more sucessful that the Limerick-Galway section. I see it been similar to that of the midelton rail line opened last year

how can a 24 km line to a very small town be more sucessfull than a line twice that length between two cities?:rolleyes:

L1011 · 05-07-2010 2:01pm

corktina wrote: »

how can a 24 km line to a very small town be more sucessfull than a line twice that length between two cities?:rolleyes:

There may, possibly, be more people from that small town looking to make the journey than people from the two cities. Potentially.

I'd want them to have very well done independent traffic surveys to prove that though.

Victor · 05-07-2010 2:48pm

corktina wrote: »

how can a 24 km line to a very small town be more sucessfull than a line twice that length between two cities?:rolleyes:

Its a different type of travel.

Based on societal / economic / educational hierarchies (neighbourhood / village, town, local city, bigger city, capital, international centre), most people from Tuam travel to Galway at some point. However, only specific people would travel between Galway and Limerick as the two carry out similar functions, but may travel more often.

Southsider1 · 05-07-2010 2:50pm

From Today's Independent:

The next day, a farmer died after he was struck by a train while attempting to herd livestock across a railway line.
James McInerney (62), from Newmarket-on-Fergus in Co Clare, was attempting to move livestock when he was struck by the 9.45pm Ennis to Limerick train.
The bachelor, who lived alone, died instantly when he was hit by the train at the townland of Ralahine, near Newmarket-on-Fergus, just after 10.15pm.
It is understood that he was used to herding livestock across the line, but may have got into difficulty when he was forced to run after some cattle that had escaped down the tracks.
It is also thought that he may have believed the trains had stopped running for the night and, as a result, moved the livestock on his own.
Just the train driver and one passenger were on the train when the accident occurred .
An Iarnrod Eireann probe into the deaths is ongoing, and a spokeswoman said new warning signs are being rolled out at level crossings across the country.

So they're running trains with a driver and just one passenger on this line and they close the Wexford/Waterford line.... Why?

Victor · 05-07-2010 2:54pm

Southsider1 wrote: »

So they're running trains with a driver and just one passenger on this line and they close the Wexford/Waterford line.... Why?

I was the only passenger on a 6-car DART twice (zero dark hundred / Dalkey-Killiney at 0730). Close the DART?

KC61 · 05-07-2010 4:13pm

Southsider1 wrote: »

From Today's Independent:

So they're running trains with a driver and just one passenger on this line and they close the Wexford/Waterford line.... Why?

To be fair the train was at 2150 from Ennis to Limerick which follows directly behind another Ennis to Limerick train at 2105.

Hardly peak travel times. They are effectively positioning trains back to Limerick. Better to have them in service than not.

GM071class · 05-07-2010 4:18pm

Victor wrote: »

I was the only passenger on a 6-car DART twice (zero dark hundred / Dalkey-Killiney at 0730). Close the DART?

Brilliant idea!! Haha,

corktina · 05-07-2010 7:18pm

Victor wrote: »

Its a different type of travel.

Based on societal / economic / educational hierarchies (neighbourhood / village, town, local city, bigger city, capital, international centre), most people from Tuam travel to Galway at some point. However, only specific people would travel between Galway and Limerick as the two carry out similar functions, but may travel more often.

do people from Gort or Ardrahan not travel to Galway then?

westtip · 05-07-2010 11:09pm

Look folks this government is seeking to save money - we all know the capital spending projects are going to be cut - this one is going to join a queue and be assessed for priority. so think about it this way - how far down the queue will this project be. My guess is a long way. It simply is not a priority and priorities are the only ones going to make it to the consideration stage.

Colm McCarthy will make a judgement on this one, in his review of semi-state bodies and we all know his opinion on this little subject.

oh and by the way I wonder how the silent majority in the west will feel about this little project going through in preference to any developement work on the N17/18 and N 26......

DWCommuter · 05-07-2010 11:58pm

westtip wrote: »

Look folks this government is seeking to save money - we all know the capital spending projects are going to be cut - this one is going to join a queue and be assessed for priority. so think about it this way - how far down the queue will this project be. My guess is a long way. It simply is not a priority and priorities are the only ones going to make it to the consideration stage.

Colm McCarthy will make a judgement on this one, in his review of semi-state bodies and we all know his opinion on this little subject.

oh and by the way I wonder how the silent majority in the west will feel about this little project going through in preference to any developement work on the N17/18 and N 26......

I hate to disagree with you Westtip, but this line will go ahead because;

1. Its low cost and appeases the western fraternity after years of "traditional" lobbying for the restoration of their "trean".

2. It creates the "illusion" that Transport 21 is actually in motion when its really just a mechanism for developmental announcements. The key difference is that in Dublin its mere planning and preconstruction works due to the real cost of serving millions, while in the west, its easy and cheap relaying of track to provide a pitiful service to thousands.

Thats politics!

highlydebased · 05-07-2010 11:59pm

While I may have advocated phase 1, phase 2 will be a huge farse and must not proceed. I'd love to see the people of Tuam have a train, but I'm sure I'd be used just as much as the people in Ardrahan use theirs...not at all!

DWCommuter · 06-07-2010 12:15am

Neon-Circles wrote: »

While I may have advocated phase 1, phase 2 will be a huge farse and must not proceed. I'd love to see the people of Tuam have a train, but I'm sure I'd be used just as much as the people in Ardrahan use theirs...not at all!

Despite your agreeable points I think we both know that it will proceed and provide all the evidence one needs to finally declare Irish Public transport policy to be a ****ing joke beyond all jokes.

Like all things Irish, mere joe soaps develop an interest and belief. This then morphs into a frenzied need for something that is usually beyond their ability. But in the interests of politics, if its cheap enough then we'll do it regardless of merit.

Its a bit like a mirage.:D

Zoney · 06-07-2010 9:10am

DWCommuter wrote: »

2. It creates the "illusion" that Transport 21 is actually in motion when its really just a mechanism for developmental announcements. The key difference is that in Dublin its mere planning and preconstruction works due to the real cost of serving millions, while in the west, its easy and cheap relaying of track to provide a pitiful service to thousands.

Actually that's a bit of an exaggeration - it is low hundreds of thousands (100-200,000 conservatively) in the Galway/Limerick regions and high hundreds of thousands (even if a bit past *one* million) that would be served by the developments in Dublin. Millions vs. thousands is not quite on the mark.

Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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