Seanie Johnston Kildare Transfer?

Tom Joad · 27-01-2012 6:08pm

premierstone wrote: »

Fair points indeed Tom.

You say though you feel that Johnston should have put hes head down and worked hard and took on board what Andrews said to hime he could have worked hes way back, this I think is the crux of the problem, Andrews didnt tell him why he was no longer required a mere 10 secong phonecall, your not on the panel, personally I think Johnston deserved more than that after the years service he has given. I feel that it wouldnt have mattered what Johnston did the only way he was ever going to play for Cavan again was post Andrews.

Also when I said that Mcgeaney was a far better coach than Andrews I wasnt referring to the case in point it was a general statement, and I disagree that if Kildare were to go on and win the AI with Johnston staring that it wouldnt prove Andrews wrong, it is exactly what it would do imo.

I agree completely with your last paragraph and admire the support and that of your fellow Cavan supporters are affording the team management, the only slight issue I would take with it is referring to Johnston as a sideshow, I really am perplexed by how easily Johnston is been alienated after what 10 plus years serivce??

Fair point but we keep hearing about this ten second phonecall and I have heard some of the stories floating about in Cavan about the context of it but you can only have a ten second phonecall with me if I slam the phone on you after ten seconds.:)

I don't know much about Seanie Johnston personally but while accepting that on his day he is as good as any footballer in the country it did appear to me sitting in the stands that he wasn't always a team player. He was captain last year and didn't show any leadership in a very young team - he was dropped by his club, has let Cavan down before so Andrews has a right to drop him if its for the good of the team.

Johnston is now going to get to play county football with a county on the up and up and good luck to the lad but what we need to do in Cavan is get behind the team - I or anyone else is not going to change Andrews mind on this so we have to accept his decision and move on.

Lemlin · 27-01-2012 6:29pm

premierstone wrote: »

Johnston has said he wasnt given any reason only that he was no longer part of their plans, Andrews has not refuted this, I have no reason to believe that the conversation was anymore or less than this, I feel Johnston deserved more you dont fair enough we will have to agree to disagree on that.

9 years service to the seniors, I was referring to service to Cavan Footbasll, minor, u-21 etc.

I am reading the same thread as you but I dont have an agenda here I couldnt give two fcuks if Cavan never won a game again, or if they went on to win 5 AIs in a row, wont bother me either way, in that sense the word perplexed was perhaps not the best, suprised then. Are you implying from that last sentence that Johnston was responsible for the shambles the county team has been and the attitude of the players involved for the last few years??

I'd appreciate if you could back some of your posts up with some links or quotes. Whenever I have asked you for some, they haven't been forthcoming.

Andrews hasn't commented at all in the media. The right approach IMO. If Johnston feels he wasn't given adequate reasons, what's to stop him ringing the management or what stopped him asking in the call? He was available to reveal to the media the reason Lyng was given.

In no way was Johnston responsible. I'm not sure who could be blamed exactly. Things just went wrong at some point and haven't been corrected. If Andrews is the one to do it than more power to him.

I just find it strange that you keep questioning the dropping and seem to ignore what endless posters have said about the state of Cavan football.

tayto lover · 27-01-2012 7:58pm

Lemlin wrote: »

I'd appreciate if you could back some of your posts up with some links or quotes. Whenever I have asked you for some, they haven't been forthcoming.

Andrews hasn't commented at all in the media. The right approach IMO. If Johnston feels he wasn't given adequate reasons, what's to stop him ringing the management or what stopped him asking in the call? He was available to reveal to the media the reason Lyng was given.

In no way was Johnston responsible. I'm not sure who could be blamed exactly. Things just went wrong at some point and haven't been corrected. If Andrews is the one to do it than more power to him.

I just find it strange that you keep questioning the dropping and seem to ignore what endless posters have said about the state of Cavan football.

That is a very simplistic way to look at the situation. Maybe the manager IS a dictator who had his methods questioned and just decided to get rid of Sean Johnson to teach any other would be questioner a lesson. This could happen again.

Lord Trollington · 28-01-2012 12:54am

Lemlin wrote: »

Andrews hasn't commented at all in the media. The right approach IMO. If Johnston feels he wasn't given adequate reasons, what's to stop him ringing the management or what stopped him asking in the call? He was available to reveal to the media the reason Lyng was given.

Johnston went to media for the very reason this entire thread exists I would imagine.

The amount of pure and utter shoite talk about Johnston in this thread other forums and media is way beyond shocking.

Maybe he wants to have his say on the matter while his name , character and personality is dragged through the gutter by internet hard men and rag journo's that don't even know the chap.

I don't know him either, but I would reckon I know about as much about Seanie than umpteen people that has posted on this thread does.

StupidLikeAFox · 28-01-2012 1:42am

ColHol wrote: »

Kildare looked sharp and did well against dublin the other day even though none of the big players were playing, so if Seanie is good enough to make the team more power to him

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

That's bull none of the big players for Dublin were playing?? Did you watch the game?? Or at the game??

What you just posted said to me well done Kildare but you didn't beat the AI champions. Insulting to the effort from the Kildare lads

I know this was a few pages back (just checked back on the thread now) but I just want to say that when I said "none of the big players were playing" I was referring to Kildares big players, not Dublins - ie our second string outplayed the Dubs half strength team

Sorry for any confusion!

Lemlin · 30-01-2012 12:07pm

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Johnston went to media for the very reason this entire thread exists I would imagine.

The amount of pure and utter shoite talk about Johnston in this thread other forums and media is way beyond shocking.

Maybe he wants to have his say on the matter while his name , character and personality is dragged through the gutter by internet hard men and rag journo's that don't even know the chap.

I don't know him either, but I would reckon I know about as much about Seanie than umpteen people that has posted on this thread does.

When you replied, you quoted me so I feel compelled to reply.

As I've stated above, I've said nothing about Johnston directly - I've just said that I'm happy with the necessary work that is being done with culling certain individuals from the panel.

blackbelt · 30-01-2012 12:44pm

ColHol wrote: »

I know this was a few pages back (just checked back on the thread now) but I just want to say that when I said "none of the big players were playing" I was referring to Kildares big players, not Dublins - ie our second string outplayed the Dubs half strength team Sorry for any confusion!

I don't want to drag this off topic but Kildare were only missing John Doyle and maybe Hugh McGrillen.Apart from that, it was a full strength league/championship looking team.

keane2097 · 30-01-2012 12:52pm

blackbelt wrote: »

I don't want to drag this off topic but Kildare were only missing John Doyle and maybe Hugh McGrillen.Apart from that, it was a full strength league/championship looking team.

lolwat?

They were missing two All Stars and a 2011 All Star nominee on top of those lads for a start.

tayto lover · 30-01-2012 12:52pm

Lemlin wrote: »

When you replied, you quoted me so I feel compelled to reply.

As I've stated above, I've said nothing about Johnston directly - I've just said that I'm happy with the necessary work that is being done with culling certain individuals from the panel.

Is Val Andrews a bit of a dictator by doing this by phone and not face to face. I thought good servants of Gaelic Football in Cavan deserved better than to be told in a 10 second phone call that their services were no longer required. Was Johnson not captain last year too ?

Lemlin · 30-01-2012 2:21pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Is Val Andrews a bit of a dictator by doing this by phone and not face to face. I thought good servants of Gaelic Football in Cavan deserved better than to be told in a 10 second phone call that their services were no longer required. Was Johnson not captain last year too ?

I don't see how he is a dictator. But, to be honest, a dictator is what Cavan football needs at this stage. I hoped we had it in Tommy Carr, him being an army man, a few years ago but it didn't materialise. Terry Hyland is very like a dictator and I think he is exactly what Cavan football needs. Someone to go in and tell the jumped up primamadonnas that were on the county panel where to go. Those lads have won nothing yet.

Last year, the county team performed so badly that each and every member of the panel got an official letter confirming that the panel was being disbanded and that players for the upcoming season would receive notification at a further date.

So, in effect, the entire panel was dropped. Val then decided to contact a number of players, including Johnston, directly. The reason given for doing this is that they had been in the panel a number of years consecutively and I'm sure he felt they should be given a reason.

What he told them on this call is up for discussion though. Some people are still arguing he told the players they wouldn't be in the initial squad but may work their way back into his plans. Some people are arguing he told them they wouldn't be required and wouldn't play for Cavan again under him. It's difficult to know to be honest because I'm sure some may have been shocked and didn't take the call in properly.

Seanie said he had a ten second phone call so it appears he wasn't told too much. However, he's been more than happy to tell the media Mickey Lyng was told he was "too old". The one thing I wonder is why he didn't question, or won't announce, the exact reason he was told he wasn't required.

Cavan have a very tough away fixture to Wexford this weekend and there could be alot of pressure on Val after it.

bruschi · 30-01-2012 2:37pm

Lemlin wrote: »

I don't see how he is a dictator. But, to be honest, a dictator is what Cavan football needs at this stage. I hoped we had it in Tommy Carr, him being an army man, a few years ago but it didn't materialise. Terry Hyland is very like a dictator and I think he is exactly what Cavan football needs. Someone to go in and tell the jumped up primamadonnas that were on the county panel where to go. Those lads have won nothing yet.

Last year, the county team performed so badly that each and every member of the panel got an official letter confirming that the panel was being disbanded and that players for the upcoming season would receive notification at a further date.

So, in effect, the entire panel was dropped. Val then decided to contact a number of players, including Johnston, directly. The reason given for doing this is that they had been in the panel a number of years consecutively and I'm sure he felt they should be given a reason.

What he told them on this call is up for discussion though. Some people are still arguing he told the players they wouldn't be in the initial squad but may work their way back into his plans. Some people are arguing he told them they wouldn't be required and wouldn't play for Cavan again under him. It's difficult to know to be honest because I'm sure some may have been shocked and didn't take the call in properly.

Seanie said he had a ten second phone call so it appears he wasn't told too much. However, he's been more than happy to tell the media Mickey Lyng was told he was "too old". The one thing I wonder is why he didn't question, or won't announce, the exact reason he was told he wasn't required.

Cavan have a very tough away fixture to Wexford this weekend and there could be alot of pressure on Val after it.

this ten second phone call is one thing that has been thrown around a lot on this thread. who hung up on who, why was it only ten seconds, are we to blieve Johsntons word on the whole matter? it just seems very odd to me to be honest. I know if I was being let go after so long involved, I wouldnt just say ok after ten seconds, hang up, and then try get a move to Kildare on the basis of that. I'd be asking why. I'd have a row there and then with the manager and find out why, and what I'd do to get back in. I just am not sure I really believe the whole facts that Johsnton is leaking out into the media over all this.

klairondavis · 30-01-2012 4:25pm

blackbelt wrote: »

I don't want to drag this off topic but Kildare were only missing John Doyle and maybe Hugh McGrillen.Apart from that, it was a full strength league/championship looking team.

That's nonsense. Mick Foley, Emmet Bolton, Aindriú MacLochlainn, Morgan O'Flaherty, Hugh Lynch and Dermot Earley also played no part. Éamonn Callaghan and Rob Kelly, both championship starters, only came off the bench.

Kildare were less experimental than Dublin but at least half that team will not start in the summer barring injuries. I'd say Fitzpatrick, Lyons, Flanagan, Sweeney, Moolick, both the O'Neill brothers and possibly Mikey Conway will be confined to a substitute's role come Offaly in Portlaoise. If this Johnston thing materialises (which I hope it doesn't) then he might force his way in ahead of either Smith or Kavanagh.

Lemlin · 30-01-2012 5:05pm

bruschi wrote: »

this ten second phone call is one thing that has been thrown around a lot on this thread. who hung up on who, why was it only ten seconds, are we to blieve Johsntons word on the whole matter? it just seems very odd to me to be honest. I know if I was being let go after so long involved, I wouldnt just say ok after ten seconds, hang up, and then try get a move to Kildare on the basis of that. I'd be asking why. I'd have a row there and then with the manager and find out why, and what I'd do to get back in. I just am not sure I really believe the whole facts that Johsnton is leaking out into the media over all this.

My point exactly. Johnston is being very patchy about what exact details were given and, if he's speaking out, surely he should be willing to give all the facts.

tayto lover · 30-01-2012 5:28pm

Lemlin wrote: »

My point exactly. Johnston is being very patchy about what exact details were given and, if he's speaking out, surely he should be willing to give all the facts.

Why does Andrews not call his bluff then and tell the media the truth so as to end the matter once and for all ? Maybe there is two sides to the story.

Lemlin · 30-01-2012 7:25pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Why does Andrews not call his bluff then and tell the media the truth so as to end the matter once and for all ? Maybe there is two sides to the story.

Lifted from Hogan Stand but what a Cavan sports reporter alleges the call was about:

1. Cavan county board had written to every panelist from the 2011 campaign in August-September thanking them for their efforts and advising them that the panel had been disbanded.
This gave the manager a clean sheet to work with for the coming season.

2. The manager whilst putting together his preliminary panel obviously phoned players he wanted to invite in but despite the panel already been disbanded out of courtesy, he also rang individuals not being looked for at that juncture. The reporter went on to say these players included former captain Martin Cahill, Micheal Lyng, Dermot Sheridan, Cian Mackey, Gareth Smith and Sean Johnston.

3. It was said that Cavan operated an open door policy and that this group are training with their clubs and depending on their progress may or may not feature with Cavan later in the season.

4. The reporter stated clearly that no player was told he would never play for the manager or Cavan again.

Frank Spencer · 31-01-2012 11:01am

hoganstand.com wrote:

Cavan won't sign Johnston transfer form

The transfer of Seanie Johnston to Kildare has hit a stumbling block after Cavan county board decided they could not sign the transfer application as in their opinion it might break GAA rules.

The Breffni County have cited Rule 6.9 of the GAA's official guide which relates to the 'permanent residence' of the player seeking the transfer, with Cavan questioning whether Johnston is in fact living in Kildare.

The statement released after Monday's Cavan board meeting reads:

"During the January meeting of Cavan county board's management committee, the issue of an inter-county transfer request was discussed. The committee have decided that they will be unable to assist this particular process as they believe there is a doubt about compliance with rial 6.9 T.O. 2011."

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=161190

premierstone · 31-01-2012 11:44am

Frank Spencer wrote: »

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=161190

I would surely have thought it was up to Kildare ie the recepient county to ensure such logistics are in place and not Cavan?

Gophur · 31-01-2012 1:24pm

Lord Trollington wrote: »

..........
The amount of pure and utter shoite talk about Johnston in this thread other forums and media is way beyond shocking.
...........

I think you need to get a sense of perspective about things.

munchkin_utd · 01-02-2012 12:32pm

just some additional background info from county PRO Declan Woods via Colm Keys in the indo today

Cavan PRO Declan Woods said that the executive had effectively cast doubt on the residency issue and it would now be a matter for the CCCC to deal with it.

"We're not the body who decides whether Seanie Johnston can transfer or not. That's for the CCCC to determine and eradicate that doubt we have cast about his private principal residence," said Woods.

"We respect his right to seek a transfer and we'd be very disappointed to see him go if the transfer request is approved.

"But what we are saying is that we have concerns about where the player is living. As far as we know, he is living in Cavan town and we have no knowledge to say that is not the case. We haven't asked for any and we wouldn't need to know, but we felt it wouldn't be right to approve something when we clearly have a concern about it," added Woods.

"This is nothing personal against Seanie Johnston, who has been a wonderful player for Cavan.

"But our belief is that he is still living in Cavan and until it can be proved otherwise, we wouldn't be satisfied with this transfer being approved."

Colm Keys himself adds : "Proof of residency could come in the form of utility bills, registration with the Private Residential Tenancies Board (PRTB), a rental agreement with a landlord, electoral registration or sequence of correspondence over a period of time to a particular address."

so basically claiming to live somewhere is different from being permanently moved!!!

mossyc123 · 01-02-2012 2:42pm

munchkin_utd wrote: »

just some additional background info from county PRO Declan Woods via Colm Keys in the indo today

Colm Keys himself adds : "Proof of residency could come in the form of utility bills, registration with the Private Residential Tenancies Board (PRTB), a rental agreement with a landlord, electoral registration or sequence of correspondence over a period of time to a particular address."

so basically claiming to live somewhere is different from being permanently moved!!!

Was listening to Off the Ball last night.

Couldn't believe the Cavan PRO was given such a hard time by the lads!

They started bringing in stuff like Cavan allegedly breaking other rules such as the winter training ban and payments to managers and suggesting that why wouldn't they just break this rule and agree that SJ had moved to Kildare...

Why would they?!

Val Andrews could be gone by the year end, a new manager could take SJ back into the squad and Cavan have there best player in a generation back.

Suggesting that they just roll over and bow to the all-powerful pull of Kildare under McGeeney instead of standing up for themselves is ludicrous IMO.

Starie1975 · 01-02-2012 4:29pm

mossyc123 wrote: »

Was listening to Off the Ball last night.

Couldn't believe the Cavan PRO was given such a hard time by the lads!

They started bringing in stuff like Cavan allegedly breaking other rules such as the winter training ban and payments to managers and suggesting that why wouldn't they just break this rule and agree that SJ had moved to Kildare...

Why would they?!

Val Andrews could be gone by the year end, a new manager could take SJ back into the squad and Cavan have there best player in a generation back.

Suggesting that they just roll over and bow to the all-powerful pull of Kildare under McGeeney instead of standing up for themselves is ludicrous IMO.

I though the Cavan PRO got a bit of a hard time too but he spoke very well.

I also agree with the stance taken by the Cavan board. Why should they sign a form without knowing if the player is living in that county? The GAA should have a stronger stance on all these transfers. In fairness it's very easy to write down an address and not live in that area.

Tom Joad · 01-02-2012 9:18pm

Sounds like the county board is hedging their bets - if Cavan have a poor year and they decide to get rid of Andrews then at least they can bring Johnston back.

I assume if Johnston does get a transfer to Kildare that he could never go back to Cavan?

Lemlin · 02-02-2012 5:10pm

Starie1975 wrote: »

I though the Cavan PRO got a bit of a hard time too but he spoke very well.

I also agree with the stance taken by the Cavan board. Why should they sign a form without knowing if the player is living in that county? The GAA should have a stronger stance on all these transfers. In fairness it's very easy to write down an address and not live in that area.

In fairness to Cavan board, they are correct in what they are doing. Allowing Johnston to move could potentially open the floodgates for transfers like this all over the GAA intercounty scene.

It's plain to a dog in the street that Johnston isn't living in Kildare.

tayto lover · 02-02-2012 7:48pm

Lemlin wrote: »

In fairness to Cavan board, they are correct in what they are doing. Allowing Johnston to move could potentially open the floodgates for transfers like this all over the GAA intercounty scene.

It's plain to a dog in the street that Johnston isn't living in Kildare.

Its a pity the same county board couldn't sit down with both manager and player and get both to see sense for the good of their county. I'm sure Cavan supporters cannot understand why their best footballer for so long wants to up-tent and leave. The county board seem to be content to allow that to happen while sitting on their backsides. Is their function not to see that things are running smoothly in the county ?

Lemlin · 03-02-2012 11:16am

tayto lover wrote: »

Its a pity the same county board couldn't sit down with both manager and player and get both to see sense for the good of their county. I'm sure Cavan supporters cannot understand why their best footballer for so long wants to up-tent and leave. The county board seem to be content to allow that to happen while sitting on their backsides. Is their function not to see that things are running smoothly in the county ?

Who said things are not running smoothly? TBH I'm getting sick to death of opinions like yours above at this stage. Plenty of players have been dropped from the Cavan panel. Do you see them all trying to transfer to other counties?

The county board have selected a manager and have left it to him to deal with the panel. That's what he's doing. He's picked who he thinks are the 30 best players in the county to repersent Cavan.

They mightn't be the 30 best players in terms of actual quality, but the GAA is a team game. It's about an entire panel. Not about one man.

From the Cavan posters on this thread, its fairly clear that many do understand why their "best footballer for so long" wants to up and leave so I also don't get your point re " I'm sure Cavan supporters cannot understand why their best footballer for so long wants to up-tent and leave".

To give you an idea of how Cavan supporters are feeling, the latest text going around the county is about Seanie going out with the most wonderful girl in the world but not being sure where he lives! Doesn't look like there's much support for him to me so.

tayto lover · 03-02-2012 12:21pm

Lemlin wrote: »

Who said things are not running smoothly? TBH I'm getting sick to death of opinions like yours above at this stage. Plenty of players have been dropped from the Cavan panel. Do you see them all trying to transfer to other counties?

The county board have selected a manager and have left it to him to deal with the panel. That's what he's doing. He's picked who he thinks are the 30 best players in the county to repersent Cavan.

They mightn't be the 30 best players in terms of actual quality, but the GAA is a team game. It's about an entire panel. Not about one man.

From the Cavan posters on this thread, its fairly clear that many do understand why their "best footballer for so long" wants to up and leave so I also don't get your point re " I'm sure Cavan supporters cannot understand why their best footballer for so long wants to up-tent and leave".

To give you an idea of how Cavan supporters are feeling, the latest text going around the county is about Seanie going out with the most wonderful girl in the world but not being sure where he lives! Doesn't look like there's much support for him to me so.

You seem to be as easily riled as your manager clearly was when someone gave a different view to his. I'm sure many Cavan supporters would rather Seanie in the blue jersey instead of the white and my point stands in that your county board seem willing to let it carry on rather than be proactive in sorting it out. No county can afford to lose its best forward for years especially a county lacking success like Cavan.

dcr22B · 03-02-2012 12:58pm

tayto lover wrote: »

No county can afford to lose its best forward for years especially a county lacking success like Cavan.

If the guy's presence or attitiude towards the cause isn't right then the manager has to do what's best for the panel not for some so called superstar :rolleyes:

Lemlin · 03-02-2012 1:13pm

tayto lover wrote: »

You seem to be as easily riled as your manager clearly was when someone gave a different view to his. I'm sure many Cavan supporters would rather Seanie in the blue jersey instead of the white and my point stands in that your county board seem willing to let it carry on rather than be proactive in sorting it out. No county can afford to lose its best forward for years especially a county lacking success like Cavan.

To be honest, there's been post after post on this thread which is now over 20 pages long of people not being able to understand how Cavan can drop Johnston. Every Cavan poster on here has supported Andrews and stated that something needed to be done with the county setup. Most have then dropped their points at that stage but you continue.

So my problem is not someone having a different view, it's someone reading this thread and stating that Cavan supporters "cannot understand why their best footballer for so long wants to up-tent and leave". They clearly can from reading this thread so, as I've asked, what's your point?

If this thread is indicative of Cavan people's thinking, not many give two fiddlers fooks that Johnston is gone. Of course they would prefer him in blue to white but he's been dropped for whatever reasons and people in Cavan, having seen the panel over the past few years, realise this. So you're entirely wrong to make a statement like that above and its statements like that constantly being made in media etc. which annoy me at this stage. Cavan supporters DO understand what is happening and they are supporting Andrews and the county board, not Johnston.

I also have problems with your labelling of him as the "best foward for years" in Cavan. Have you heard of Jason or Larry Reilly? Jason only quit playing county football in 2009 and Larry was only the year before. So Johnston has not been Cavan's best forward for years.

Also, have you ever seen Johnston play? If you go over to Hogan Stand and have a look at posts over the years, you'll find Seanie had plenty of critics, as well as fans. He can kick a score from anywhere once the ball is delivered to him. Ask him to win the ball or fight to get it though and you're in trouble. Hence the reason he has never scored a Championship goal.

premierstone · 03-02-2012 1:51pm

Reading this thread I have come to the conclusion that Cavan and Andrews deserve each other and Im actually going to kind of enjoy the inevitable debacle that will ensue

tayto lover · 03-02-2012 2:47pm

dcr22B wrote: »

If the guy's presence or attitiude towards the cause isn't right then the manager has to do what's best for the panel not for some so called superstar :rolleyes:

Nobody in the management set-up seems to have come out and said that. That is part of my point, nothing has been explained. Some are saying that Johnston is a bad influence in the dressing room and with young players and others are saying that Andrews hasn't got a clue and can't take criticism. Many are saying that Johnston was last years captain and must have said something following their two championship hammerings to upset Andrews.
If Gooch or Brogan were to be dropped would supporters of those counties not be entitled to ask questions ? We were the same in Louth when the O'Hanlons were dropped years ago, we asked questions and got answers.

Seanie Johnston Kildare Transfer?

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