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Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Peculiar new ICU website

13

Comments

  • #62
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,143 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Not yet.

    I presume they have to let Cork know they can upload the results first.


  • #63
    brilliantboy
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭brilliantboy


    Yes, the old website is seemingly back but why is there no notice of that on the temp website?
    And why are both websites posting updates? :rolleyes:

    And still no sign of Cork being rated


  • #64
    mikhail
    Registered Users Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭mikhail


    brilliantboy wrote: »
    Yes, the old website is seemingly back but why is there no notice of that on the temp website?
    I just noticed this note on the right hand sidebar of icu.ie:
    Apart from its two websites, www.icu.ie and ratings.icu.ie, the ICU is not responsible for any other internet media relating to Irish chess.

    I haven't seen that before: I presume it's new. I don't know what's going on there, but something smells off.


  • #65
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,143 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    That note was there before, I think it's a reference to the Facebook page in particular


  • #66
    reunion
    Registered Users Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭reunion


    cdeb wrote: »
    That note was there before, I think it's a reference to the Facebook page in particular

    That notice was due to Colm Daly's blog. As Colm uses Ex-ICU PRO on Facebook (and now ICU PRO on facebook) and has a blog called Irish Chess Cog.... The ICU had to show that they were not associated with his personal blog and that only the ICU.ie site had official information.

    Bernard Palmer was leaking information to Colm for publication, which meant that the ICU had to state that the blog was not in anyway associated with the ICU. He posted information which was decided by the executive not to be published (the name of the child in the Cork cheating case). Along with attacks on people, insults, etc.



    And now Colm has set up the ICU's blog and is our PRO.


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  • #67
    mikhail
    Registered Users Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭mikhail


    reunion wrote: »
    And now Colm has set up the ICU's blog and is our PRO.
    Is it the official blog so? They could do with updating that notice.

    I made the (completely innocent) mistake of referring to it as the "temporary ICU site" in the ECU grant thread and got a histrionic email from admin@irishchessunion.net, who ignored requests to identify himself. Apparently this forum is a "vile echochamber", by the way.


  • #68
    reunion
    Registered Users Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭reunion


    mikhail wrote: »
    Is it the official blog so? They could do with updating that notice.

    I made the (completely innocent) mistake of referring to it as the "temporary ICU site" in the ECU grant thread and got a histrionic email from admin@irishchessunion.net, who ignored requests to identify himself. Apparently this forum is a "vile echochamber", by the way.

    That's Colm Daly. He uses admin on his personal blog and on the ICU's blog.

    You can clearly see from the WHOIS details that this site is owned by Colm and he is the admin.

    It is also hosted on Colm Daly's hosting package (where he hosts his blog). I wonder who is paying for this hosting package? Is the ICU funding Colm's blogs (i.e the ICU is paying for the hosting) or has the ICU placed the blog in an unsecure server (i.e. Colm has sole control over the ICU blog?)



    If I had to guess why he doesn't like this forum, I'd guess:
    A. He isn't an admin
    B. It's open to everyone equally (so higher rating does not equal higher valued input)
    C. We don't tolerate abusive posts
    D. We aren't a rumour mill


  • #69
    Pete Morriss
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭Pete Morriss


    mikhail wrote: »
    I just noticed this note on the right hand sidebar of icu.ie:



    I haven't seen that before: I presume it's new. I don't know what's going on there, but something smells off.


    The note was put there last year, during my stint as ICU Chairperson. It was added partly to indicate that the ICU had nothing to do with various Irish chess blogs, but mainly that it had no connection with the (so called) Irish Chess facebook page: we had received a number of complaints about offensive posts there (some of which were truly awful) and it seemed that the only action open to us was to say on our site that these were nothing to do with the ICU. Most of us (including me) found that an unsatisfactory response to items that were potentially damaging to Irish chess - but that is doubtless a topic for another thread, not this one.

    It is rather amusing that the ICU appears to be disassociating itself from the other Irish Chess Union website - the one we used to be sent to when trying to access icu.ie - but doubtless all this will be fully explained when the people currently in control of the Executive bother to tell us what on earth has been going on.


  • #70
    brilliantboy
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭brilliantboy


    An update of sorts on icu.ie. :confused:
    Most functionality of the old ICU website has now been restored. This includes our Stripe account, which was and is again used for membership payment and for the ICU shop section of the website. This is fully operational now as are both the ratings section of the website plus the email system and addresses.

    For the most up to date news and ICU announcements the new ICU website IRISHCHESSUNION.NET will continue be the main ICU portal.


  • #71
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,143 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Really don't understand why IrishChessUnion.net is still the main ICU portal if ICU.ie is back up and running?

    Why complicate things?


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  • #72
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Pete Morriss wrote: »
    The note was put there last year, during my stint as ICU Chairperson. It was added partly to indicate that the ICU had nothing to do with various Irish chess blogs, but mainly that it had no connection with the (so called) Irish Chess facebook page: we had received a number of complaints about offensive posts there (some of which were truly awful) and it seemed that the only action open to us was to say on our site that these were nothing to do with the ICU.
    ...and now the ICU PRO is an admin of that page.

    Not really seeing all this as an improvement to be honest.


  • #73
    Mustafa Chess
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭Mustafa Chess


    Shocking stuff really and I guess the only thing we can do now is decide who among us will put ourselves forward at the next agm. That will surely sort things out to our collective satisfaction. In the meantime, we have to hope that there are some good reasons for why they are doing certain things and they might know a bit more than we do. So maybe they do know what they are doing and fingers crossed they won't make a mess of things any more than they have done so far.

    They did wrest control back from that guy who sabotaged the website and deleted the previous ICU stripe account and prevented the ICU from taking payments online for weeks. There was also that business of setting up the use of ICU email addresses in such a way that blind copies of all emails sent to various ICU officers were sent to his personal email address.

    So it can be understood that it has required a huge amount of time and effort to correct problems and gain full control of the ICU website. And aside from an inability to actually edit static web pages on the ICU website at the moment and having no FTP access or access to various files from the website, everything else is now working as is needed.

    Of course it so easy to get confused about many of these things and perhaps I have picked it up wrong. It is only a bit of a laugh and sure when any of us in here gets it wrong, we always admit it and apologize.


  • #74
    brilliantboy
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭brilliantboy


    Mustafa Chess wrote: »
    They did wrest control back from that guy who sabotaged the website and deleted the previous ICU stripe account and prevented the ICU from taking payments online for weeks. There was also that business of setting up the use of ICU email addresses in such a way that blind copies of all emails sent to various ICU officers were sent to his personal email address.

    So it can be understood that it has required a huge amount of time and effort to correct problems and gain full control of the ICU website. And aside from an inability to actually edit static web pages on the ICU website at the moment and having no FTP access or access to various files from the website, everything else is now working as is needed.

    Now that wasn't so hard was it?


  • #75
    Mustafa Chess
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭Mustafa Chess


    cdeb wrote: »
    Really don't understand why IrishChessUnion.net is still the main ICU portal if ICU.ie is back up and running?

    Why complicate things?

    Yeah that is a mystery alright. Probably has nothing to do with the fact that the ICU website was and still is kinda crap. At least from the visual, graphic and navigational point of view. Otherwise I agree some things do work very well indeed, but the homepage is atrociously dull.

    Apparently it is much easier to post and edit using the new website and easier to do all a manner of things with the.net website, as compared to the previous ICU website.

    The trusty new website is also fully controlled by the ICU executive and all the username and passwords, including FTP access (still no such access available on the old website) have been handed over to, and are in possession of the Chairman and other key members of the executive. And apparently it is not costing the ICU one red cent either.

    So one website has a homepage that is bright clear and easy for anybody on the ICU executive to manage and maintain. While the other homepage cannot be edited and is very limited in the range of features and presentation choices available.

    Of course I am open to the possibility that I am being hoodwinked and mislead here, but how many times have people here been wrong, totally wrong and utterly clueless?

    Guessing game really. Seems like the old website was actually designed to be as complicated as can be so that to do even simple things it is awkward. A clear eye on trying to make the the previous admin as indispensable as possible was the main feature. That is until the new rating officer out foxed and beat the previous guy hands down. But why not have the best of both if it suits the ICU and the new rating officer?


  • #76
    Mustafa Chess
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭Mustafa Chess


    brilliantboy wrote: »
    Now that wasn't so hard was it?

    Well it could be more cow dung and I am being fed a pile of you know what.


  • #77
    historian
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭historian


    @ Mustafa Chess

    Your comments are the first reasonably detailed explanations I've seen of what's been going on with the ICU website. Of course it's against the rules here to speculate on who you might be. However I'm going to assume that you're not being fed animal produce and that you're someone in the know.

    So, as I'm sure the ICU Executive is far too busy to be scanning the comments here, here's a question for you to take back to whoever's making you so well-informed :-)

    Wouldn't it be nice to see a full, open and transparent statement on this whole business from the ICU Chairman on whatever organ(s) the ICU feels best suited to that purpose?

    Time to go a bit further than a drip-feed of short updates and the odd "media briefing" here and there. After all wasn't the new regime promising an era of glasnost?


  • #78
    Chess_Coach
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 182 ✭✭Chess_Coach


    Mustafa Chess wrote: »
    Shocking stuff really and I guess the only thing we can do now is decide who among us will put ourselves forward at the next agm. That will surely sort things out to our collective satisfaction. In the meantime, we have to hope that there are some good reasons for why they are doing certain things and they might know a bit more than we do. So maybe they do know what they are doing and fingers crossed they won't make a mess of things any more than they have done so far.

    They did wrest control back from that guy who sabotaged the website and deleted the previous ICU stripe account and prevented the ICU from taking payments online for weeks. There was also that business of setting up the use of ICU email addresses in such a way that blind copies of all emails sent to various ICU officers were sent to his personal email address.

    So it can be understood that it has required a huge amount of time and effort to correct problems and gain full control of the ICU website. And aside from an inability to actually edit static web pages on the ICU website at the moment and having no FTP access or access to various files from the website, everything else is now working as is needed.

    Of course it so easy to get confused about many of these things and perhaps I have picked it up wrong. It is only a bit of a laugh and sure when any of us in here gets it wrong, we always admit it and apologize.[/QUOTE

    I have asked at AGM our previous admin about those emails ? So he could read them then !


  • #79
    reunion
    Registered Users Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭reunion


    Mustafa Chess wrote: »
    Yeah that is a mystery alright. Probably has nothing to do with the fact that the ICU website was and still is kinda crap. At least from the visual, graphic and navigational point of view. Otherwise I agree some things do work very well indeed, but the homepage is atrociously dull.

    Yeah the Irishchessunion.net is pretty poor.... Oh wait, you are talking about icu.ie which was designed with years of development and feedback.
    Mustafa Chess wrote: »
    Apparently it is much easier to post and edit using the new website and easier to do all a manner of things with the.net website, as compared to the previous ICU website.

    The trusty new website is also fully controlled by the ICU executive and all the username and passwords, including FTP access (still no such access available on the old website) have been handed over to, and are in possession of the Chairman and other key members of the executive. And apparently it is not costing the ICU one red cent either.

    So one website has a homepage that is bright clear and easy for anybody on the ICU executive to manage and maintain. While the other homepage cannot be edited and is very limited in the range of features and presentation choices available.

    Ah so it's hosted insecurely! We should remove the other domains that are hosted on the same package or move it to where the icu.ie is hosted. OR the ICU hasn't been given full control which means all our data is on an unsecure server! :eek:

    A wordpress blog is simple to move and use. We could even have blog.icu.ie which is a lot better.

    The icu.ie website doesn't use a What You See Is What You Get editor but it does use something similar to boards (details here). Seems straightforward and used for the last 14(ish) years by previous executives!
    Mustafa Chess wrote: »
    Of course I am open to the possibility that I am being hoodwinked and mislead here, but how many times have people here been wrong, totally wrong and utterly clueless?

    Guessing game really. Seems like the old website was actually designed to be as complicated as can be so that to do even simple things it is awkward. A clear eye on trying to make the the previous admin as indispensable as possible was the main feature. That is until the new rating officer out foxed and beat the previous guy hands down. But why not have the best of both if it suits the ICU and the new rating officer?

    I don't think you are being mislead, the ICU really did start a website in less than a day with no thought about presentation or feedback from members. If only it had gone through a beta period like the icu.ie website....

    Actually I've heard there was handover documents AND someone with suitable credentials to take over from the last webmaster. However, they were rejected based on personal bias against the individual.

    I really don't know why uneducated individuals think that a website is like microsoft word. If you want that functionality, you won't know how it works and if it breaks, you can't fix it (also open to attacks from bots).


  • #80
    Mustafa Chess
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭Mustafa Chess


    reunion wrote: »
    Why does icu.ie (main website) not show the teams? but the irishchessunion.net (redundant site) does?

    You seem to think you know more than just about anybody on some of these issues. Yet you also seem to have been wrong about 90 percent of the time you posted on these issues?

    At least that is how it seems to me, and even if I assume I am just wrong and being misinformed, or fed some animal produce to confuse me then fair enough I will have to assume you know more than even those actually on the ICU.

    For example I noticed a very curious thing after I seen your post here. It seems to completely contradict exactly what you just claimed, but it has been there for days before you posted. That just confuses me and even allowing for me being easily confused it seems you just might be every bit as clueless as you seem to want the more critical minded to see quite plainly? But forgive me if I am being too harsh, and sure maybe it is me who is the less informed and more clueless one here. Sorry in advance if that is the case.
    Main Functionality Of Old ICU Website Restored
    2015-04-22

    Most functionality of the old ICU website has now been restored. This includes our Stripe account, which was and is again used for membership payment and for the ICU shop section of the website. This is fully operational now as are both the ratings section of the website plus the email system and addresses.

    For the most up to date news and ICU announcements the new ICU website IRISHCHESSUNION.NET will continue be the main ICU portal.
    That is what is on what you called the "main site" yet it seems most peculiar that the very opposite to what you wrote seems to be the case? Maybe they got mixed up? But the mystery only deepens further. Then on the website you say is "redundant" there is the comment below:

    Main Functionality Of Old ICU Website Restored
    2015-04-22

    April 22, 2015
    Main Functionality Of Old ICU Website Restored

    Most functionality of the old ICU website has now been restored. This includes our Stripe account, which was and is again used for membership payment and for the ICU shop section of the website. This is fully operational now as are both the ratings section of the website plus the email system and addresses.

    For the most up to date news and ICU announcements this website will continue be the main ICU portal.
    Now I am no expert or anything but unless they made a mistake it seems very odd indeed to have something like

    "For the most up to date news and ICU announcements this website will continue be the main ICU portal." to be posted if it is "redundant"

    In all fairness perhaps you might know something we, or those doing the website stuff don't know.

    I am reluctant to write it but I too "heard" that the homepage of the website that you call the "main site" and the website itself says is the "old website" will just disappear before too long and be re-directed to the other main website that you call the "redundant website" and it is only for "technical" reasons that the current .ie homepage does not render or appear as the .net homepage.

    As confused as I am, I hope you won't take offense if I suggest that I think I am going to assume that you might not know as much as those actually involved with the ICU website and in general you are guessing and just having a bit of a laugh. I find it funny at least. So hopefully that is of some solace to you.


  • #81
    Mustafa Chess
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭Mustafa Chess


    reunion wrote: »
    That's where your sentence stops. Colm Daly posted that the event is cancelled on the ICU site and on his the ICU blog. Either Colm did this by himself or the executive did this. Guess we need those minutes from that executive meeting to say that Colm did indeed do this with the blessing of the executive.....

    Would I be so crazy to suggest that the post by the ICU Pro was not a personal post and that I don't think the website belongs to anybody other than the ICU?

    That it is not a blog, and I have seen no claim or evidence of it being a blog by either the ICU, or the website, old part and new.

    I don't imagine the Pro needs the "blessing" of the executive to post on the ICU website. I think they just let people get on with their brief and the pro can sometimes act under instruction and direction of the executive and or chairman.


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  • #82
    reunion
    Registered Users Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭reunion


    Mustafa Chess wrote: »
    you call the "main site"

    The ICU.ie site is the main site as it says on the FIDE page and the ECU page.
    Mustafa Chess wrote: »
    I don't think the website belongs to anybody other than the ICU?

    The site is still owned by Colm Daly.
    eclipsechaser wrote: »
    It must be all the Solve a Problem/ Post a Problem puzzles :)

    I suspect the captain was taking the mickey out of me there. I had a good come-back tournament (TPR 1990) last Summer but I'll need a lot of those just to make the bottom of the team. As for being a wonderkid, I haven't been mistaken as a pupil for at least 6 months now... :p

    I believe Adare beat Gonzaga in that round.

    What do the standing currently look like?


  • #83
    Lecale
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭Lecale


    Sparks wrote:
    For running a perfectly functional website for years and being a helpful person?
    Serious charges indeed! :rolleyes:

    I read elsewhere that
    BP wrote:
    MO has been suspended from the ICU for 3 years, not allowed to be on the Executive for 5 years, and had his HLM removed. Fact.
    Now, I gather that MO and CD hate each other, and have done so for years, but that alone doesn't explain this. Even the fact that various factions exist in a state of open warfare inside the ICU don't really explain this. I imagine that there has to be some pretty solid evidence for this committee to give out this verdict, and am a bit baffled as to what actually happened, and how it could have happened.

    It could be a big pork pie - in which case I've been royally trolled. :p

    If it is true, and I assume it is:
    - why if MO has open sourced, and documented the software to run the website, can this come to pass - see github sanichi (not just the website software I might add)
    - how can passwords not be given back to the ICU if they've been 'lost' , doesn't the ICU have the credit card details for the website account? (facepalm if not)
    - how can changing emails around be a hassle - isn't that a 10 minute job?
    - why do both websites list MO as a HLM?
    - why is there nothing about this on any official website, or indeed boards.ie? I mean last year all the proceedings where leaked as soon as possible! :) Yet here, no statement at all?

    other question:
    - who did they find to sit on the disciplinary committee who wasn't biased :)


  • #84
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Lecale wrote: »
    I gather that MO and CD hate each other, and have done so for years, but that alone doesn't explain this.
    I imagine that there has to be some pretty solid evidence for this committee to give out this verdict
    Honestly, I'd disagree with both of those...


  • #85
    Lecale
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭Lecale


    Mustafa Chess wrote: »
    Seems like the old website was actually designed to be as complicated as can be so that to do even simple things it is awkward. A clear eye on trying to make the the previous admin as indispensable as possible was the main feature.

    You don't open source all your software if you're trying to make yourself indispensable. :)


  • #86
    Lecale
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭Lecale


    Lecale wrote: »
    - why do both websites list MO as a HLM?

    I see that somebody has been reading what I wrote, because MO's HLM entry has been deleted from the new website now. Still official silence on the issue, but I'm sure all the details will be leaked soon. Not sure why the ICU would want to hide what they've done?


  • #87
    HaraldSchmidt
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭HaraldSchmidt


    My guess is they are able to make very small changes in text, but adding new functionality is well beyond the ability of the current executive and their helpers.

    I have also heard that there was no executive vote taken on the banning, even though the secretary wrote to the former web master.

    The executive were never likely to announce something like this during the Irish championships, because too many members of that executive would get asked very hard questions by the players. I think they are also unlikely to announce anything until after the Glorney.


  • #88
    maol
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16 ✭maol


    Software is my job, and the regular ICU site is a lovely piece of software built using what would be seen in the industry as one of the simplest and easiest to use web application frameworks. It is NOT however a Wordpress site that anyone can update. As someone already pointed out, the commercial fee for developing and maintaining the ICU site would have run into many tens of thousands of euro. The idea that Mark, who did all this for free, made it hard to update so that he would be indispensable doesn't make any sense. It was labour of love that we all benefited from.


  • #89
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    maol wrote: »
    Software is my job...
    I'll echo that sentiment and on the same basis. If the ICU want a short sharp shock, they should tender for a qualified professional to replicate what Mark Orr wrote for them for free and to a high standard (that's some nice clean code he's written). My best guess is that it'd be a reasonably high five figure sum, probably touching six figures when you add in the service and maintenance contracts you'd need to replicate Orr's work over the years.


  • #90
    reunion
    Registered Users Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭reunion


    HaraldSchmidt wrote: »
    The executive were never likely to announce something like this

    you could really just have ended the sentence there. Darko Polimac on the Facebook group has stated that there is a ban incoming for mark. Yet no mention of a disciplinary committee being formed. I'm guessing transparency isn't a key factor of the executive (or its a failing of the pro) if there is any punishment handed to mark.

    Also judging from the basic lack of knowledge of programming and computers, I'd believe that the website crashed and they blamed it on mark because they didn't know what was wrong.


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  • #91
    Lecale
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭Lecale


    reunion wrote: »
    you could really just have ended the sentence there. Darko Polimac on the Facebook group has stated that there is a ban incoming for mark. Yet no mention of a disciplinary committee being formed. I'm guessing transparency isn't a key factor of the executive (or its a failing of the pro) if there is any punishment handed to mark.

    Also judging from the basic lack of knowledge of programming and computers, I'd believe that the website crashed and they blamed it on mark because they didn't know what was wrong.

    Was the Facebook group hut down for repeated violation of terms of service - I don't see it anymore? Regardless, I read this from Darko
    DP wrote:
    Many people ask me where do I stand West - East . I stand for fairness and transparency. I stand for truth. My religion is Chess. My passion is to coach chess. My ultimate priority is my family and friends ,simple as that
    Will Darko stand for transparency here?

    Why was no disciplinary committee formed?
    Was all the executive allowed to vote?
    Why was no announcement made?
    What decision was actually made?
    Why is somebody who open sourced their software, and documented it, bad mouthed behind their backs with blatantly false claims such as "he tried to make himself irreplaceable"?


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