Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

profitius · 28-11-2011 3:49pm

AtItAllDayRef wrote: »

Can't be much worse than they've been under Gaffney's stand flat and get small backs to run straight with no space. (sorry I left out the Sexton loop move which is the only variation).

I expect some improvement with Gaffney gone. Les Kiss might know a few things about back play and if nothing else, the players will welcome new ideas.

Podge_irl · 28-11-2011 4:13pm

profitius wrote: »

I expect some improvement with Gaffney gone. Les Kiss might know a few things about back play and if nothing else, the players will welcome new ideas.

I admire your optimism.

GerM · 28-11-2011 11:25pm

Why do people seem set on the idea that the way we've been playing has been the style of Alan Gaffney? He was there to coach the backs. That doesn't necessarily mean that he was there to coach them in the manner that he would do if he was given control of them entirely. Everything about Ireland's back play in the past year suggests Gaffney didn't have a massive amount of input and others were coming up with a game plan that he was working around. Him being the one coach to leave and the decision not to replace him seems to back that up.

Gaffney's trademark was first phase back moves. When did we see one of those in the past year? Everywhere he has coached has seen back lines produce tries off clean ball from the pack with set moves. They simply weren't part of the plan. Our plan was mixing forwards in with the backs.

profitius · 29-11-2011 1:01am

GerM wrote: »

Why do people seem set on the idea that the way we've been playing has been the style of Alan Gaffney? He was there to coach the backs. That doesn't necessarily mean that he was there to coach them in the manner that he would do if he was given control of them entirely. Everything about Ireland's back play in the past year suggests Gaffney didn't have a massive amount of input and others were coming up with a game plan that he was working around. Him being the one coach to leave and the decision not to replace him seems to back that up.

Gaffney's trademark was first phase back moves. When did we see one of those in the past year? Everywhere he has coached has seen back lines produce tries off clean ball from the pack with set moves. They simply weren't part of the plan. Our plan was mixing forwards in with the backs.

In Gaffneys last season with Leinster they were among the lowest try scorers in the ML. Schmidt made a massive difference to Leinster play and it took them a few months to adapt to Schmidts ideas. Munster played poor rugby under him too.

Podge_irl · 29-11-2011 1:19am

profitius wrote: »

In Gaffneys last season with Leinster they were among the lowest try scorers in the ML. Schmidt made a massive difference to Leinster play and it took them a few months to adapt to Schmidts ideas. Munster played poor rugby under him too.

They scored the most tries of anyone in the pool stages of the HEC, excluding the group with Viadana in it.

I'm not going to deny that Leinster played some awful staid rugby that season, but they also scored some amazing first phase tries. Schmidt made a massive difference yes, though I have seen absolutely nothing to suggest anyone involved in the Ireland set up is capable of getting the team playing that kind of game. Particularly when Gaffney's best abilities - or only ones really these days - went completely unused. I imagine Kiss et al had a fair involvement in back play in the RWC which doesn't bode well.

GerM · 29-11-2011 9:11am

profitius wrote: »

In Gaffneys last season with Leinster they were among the lowest try scorers in the ML. Schmidt made a massive difference to Leinster play and it took them a few months to adapt to Schmidts ideas. Munster played poor rugby under him too.

You're absolutely correct in the fact about Leinster being the lowest try scorers. I don't think he was brilliant in his coaching either but his input was definitely there to see. When the opportunities were there, the backs still put into place moves off good clean ball or first phase, set piece ball. I can list off perfect tries from his last season with Leinster. Kearney vs Brive, BOD vs Brive, Kearney vs Munster in the ML semi. They weren't scoring regularly but it showed that they were being coached to do so when they could. For the most part, Leinster took points whenever on offer that season and that's reflected in the points scored/tries ratio. By far the least tries scored yet quite high on the scoring count overall. There's nothing in the Irish game plan to suggest that anything like these backs moves are being even attempted. Leinster x 2, Munster, Saracens...he had all these sides scoring good tries through the backs in the last 10 years. The only time it hasn't happened was with Ireland and particularly in the last 12 months. There was elements of it in his first 12 months but there has been a shift in how we play the game since then.

Munster may have played poorly under Gaffney in terms of results but they were the top try scorers in the ML in 2 of his 3 seasons and scored a load of tries in the HEC also. It just wasn't the right game plan for Munster. The knock out games against Stade and Wasps in 2004 were two of the most exciting games in the tournament's history. In another season, Gaffney would have brought them to a final. Any other knock out draw and they'd be there. They lost to two of the greatest sides in the tournament's existence in the 2003 Toulouse side (away from home by a single point) and the 2004 Wasps side (in the last minutes to a dubious try).

totallegend · 29-11-2011 10:00am

I suppose the question is not whether Gaffney is a good or bad backs coach, but how much input he actually had into team affairs? He seemed to get very little mention in the media, regardless of whether things were going well or badly and when you would see Kidney on TV, it was usually Smal and Kiss beside him. So was he actually calling the shots?

And furthermore, Ireland haven't had a settled half-back partnership since March 09; how much continuity can a backs coach instil with the out-half alternating almost every game and three guys being first-choice SH in that time?

JustinDee · 29-11-2011 10:02am

totallegend wrote: »

I suppose the question is not whether Gaffney is a good or bad backs coach, but how much input he actually had into team affairs? He seemed to get very little mention in the media, regardless of whether things were going well or badly and when you would see Kidney on TV, it was usually Smal and Kiss beside him. So was he actually calling the shots?

They take turns in doing press conferences and top-table meets. Gaffer did his fair plenty share of appearances.

totallegend · 29-11-2011 10:26am

JustinDee wrote: »

They take turns in doing press conferences and top-table meets. Gaffer did his fair plenty share of appearances.

Yeah, perhaps, but press conferences have become increasingly meaningless in the Kidney era of saying nothing, I'm talking more about during the games, i.e. when the camera zooms in on the coaches, it always struck me as though Kidney/Smal/Kiss were the guys in charge. Just my perception anyway, I could be way off the mark.

Robotnic · 03-12-2011 3:44am

Just heard snippet of BOD being interviewed this week, said he's back to some fitness work already! Also said he hadn some much upper body work in last couple of years with injuries, he'll be an animal altogether when he gets back if that was him without upper body conditioning!

JustinDee · 03-12-2011 1:20pm

totallegend wrote: »

Yeah, perhaps, but press conferences have become increasingly meaningless in the Kidney era of saying nothing

Press conferences have actually been excellent. Just because a coach doesn't give controversial views, it doesn't mean they're meaningless. Questions get asked and get answered.

totallegend wrote: »

I'm talking more about during the games, i.e. when the camera zooms in on the coaches, it always struck me as though Kidney/Smal/Kiss were the guys in charge. Just my perception anyway, I could be way off the mark.

Wouldn't worry about camera zooms on the coaches. A lot gets said in that box by all, before, during and after the match.

Podge_irl · 03-12-2011 2:10pm

Justin, Kidney doesn't just not say anything controversial. He says nothing of any note full stop!

Teferi · 03-12-2011 5:17pm

C'mon Justin, I know you work for and generally cheerlead for the IRFU but you have to admit that Kidney says absolutely nothing when being interviewed. Nothing informative, no insight whatsoever. A plank of wood would be more vocal than Kidney when a mic and camera are pointed at him.

JustinDee · 03-12-2011 5:31pm

Teferi wrote: »

C'mon Justin, I know you work for and generally cheerlead for the IRFU but you have to admit that Kidney says absolutely nothing when being interviewed. Nothing informative, no insight whatsoever. A plank of wood would be more vocal than Kidney when a mic and camera are pointed at him.

I'm not "cheerleader". I'm at every post-match conference and interview zone. If any of the coaches said nothing, I'd definitely notice.
No-one is obliged to deliver pot-boiling
post-match rhetoric.
Honestly don't know what you expect him to say. Give an example maybe.

Teferi · 03-12-2011 5:48pm

There is even a spoof about it...

Have a look.

I wasn't trying to insult you in saying you cheerlead, but you are often times the only one defending the IRFU, sometimes correctly and sometimes not.

danthefan · 03-12-2011 5:52pm

Any interview/press conference/etc with Kidney beyond those where he announces a team, are a waste of time. There is no information whatsoever to be gleaned from them at all.

Podge_irl · 03-12-2011 6:00pm

danthefan wrote: »

Any interview/press conference/etc with Kidney beyond those where he announces a team, are a waste of time. There is no information whatsoever to be gleaned from them at all.

He's taken training squad announcements to a new stratosphere of pointlessness though.

.ak · 03-12-2011 6:25pm

Ah sure, y'know yerself, tis a game of two halves and both teams will be trying to win so who knows we'll be backing ourselves to win but so will they...

etc., etc., etc...

WeeBushy · 03-12-2011 6:35pm

Teferi wrote: »

There is even a spoof about it...

Have a look.

I wasn't trying to insult you in saying you cheerlead, but you are often times the only one defending the IRFU, sometimes correctly and sometimes not.

While I agree that he is rather evasive, providing a spoof isn't a great example..

Tbh, from his and the team's point of view saying nothing is a good thing, why would he want to give any info away that could help the opposition? Or say something Gatland-esque that just motivates the other team. Saying nothing is a good thing most of the time imo. Keep whatever needs to be said amongst the team. Don't let anyone else in on that.

Teferi · 03-12-2011 8:10pm

WeeBushy wrote: »

While I agree that he is rather evasive, providing a spoof isn't a great example..

I disagree. It's proof that it's not just one-eyed boardies that are seeing it, the wider Irish rugby community see it too.

durkadurka · 03-12-2011 10:50pm

CatFromHue · 06-12-2011 1:42pm

Gloucester's home venue Kingsholm Stadium will host the international between Ireland and the Barbarians, which is scheduled for May 29, 2012.

It is not the first time these two have met in front of The Shed as they faced each other there in 2008, with the Irish taking the spoils on that occasion.

Gloucester also hosted the Wallabies back in November 2009, a season which saw the England U20s side use Kingsholm as its base.

"I would like to express our excitement at welcoming the Barbarians and Ireland back to Kingsholm," Managing Director Ken Nottage told the Cherry and Whites' official website.

"The previous time these teams played here in Gloucester, it very much marked the start of a new era here at the club.

"We've now hosted a number of international fixtures here at the stadium but a Barbarians match is always a special one.

"It would be fantastic to get the tremendous backing of our supporters to illustrate the region's ever growing commitment to supporting the game at all levels."

Any idea why this game isn't in Ireland?

Kingsholm has a capacity of 16,500 which is less than the RDS and Thomond, Ravenhill is about 12,000. There is three perfect stadiums there!

.ak · 06-12-2011 1:48pm

I suppose it's an 'away' match?

totallegend · 06-12-2011 1:49pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

Gloucester's home venue Kingsholm Stadium will host the international between Ireland and the Barbarians, which is scheduled for May 29, 2012.

Even aside from the location, what's the thinking behind the date? a) it's a Tuesday and b) it's three days after the Rabo Pro 12 final.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 06-12-2011 2:30pm

Would be a great game to bring international rugby to Thomond or Ravenhill. I presume the barbarians are 'home'

Will be interesting to see what type of team Kidney puts out if a province or two are in the RDPro12 final

emmet02 · 06-12-2011 3:13pm

great news. Just down the road!

Cpt_Blackbeard · 06-12-2011 4:18pm

It's a pity its not in Ireland but, I think having it so soon after the Pro12 final is a great idea. It's a fantastic excuse to blood some youngsters/ fringe players.

JustinDee · 06-12-2011 4:56pm

Barbarians are home side. They were also home side at Thomond Pk for example.

leakyboots · 16-12-2011 11:45am

I think poor auld Throb Kearney is slightly deluded.

Kearney wants Ireland captaincy but insists he's 'not ready' yet
By Hugh Farrelly

Friday December 16 2011

ROB KEARNEY says he would welcome the "highest honour" of captaining Ireland, but believes Paul O'Connell or Rory Best are the best options heading into the Six Nations.

With Brian O'Driscoll unavailable until the end of the season, Ireland need a new captain for the Six Nations and Kearney's name has been suggested as a candidate alongside existing vice-captains O'Connell and Best.

The full-back does not turn 26 until March and would fit the age profile if Ireland seek a long-term leader to take them towards the World Cup in England in 2015.

However, while Kearney says he was flattered when his name was linked with the role, he believes there are stronger candidates available to coach Declan Kidney.

"When your name is mentioned as having the attributes for that role, you take it as a compliment," said Kearney, who captained Ireland U-19s at the World Cup in 2005. "It is the highest honour and what you want to do.

"But it comes down to putting your best captain out there to win the game. Rory and Paul are the vice-captains and that would suggest they are the best options.

"I think it's a role you grow into. It is difficult for full-backs because you are not in the heat of the action, and you want your captain to be an inspirational figure, and sometimes full-back is a difficult position to be inspirational.

"But every player wants to captain their country, so we will see down the line."

Kearney is set to be named today at full-back in Leinster's team to face Bath in the Aviva tomorrow, with several changes likely to be made to the side that won 18-13 in The Rec last weekend.

This could mean a midfield partnership of Eoin O'Malley at 13 and Fergus McFadden at 12 in place of Gordon D'Arcy. Cian Healy, Devin Toner, Shane Jennings and Eoin Reddan could also return.

- Hugh Farrelly

CatFromHue · 16-12-2011 11:49am

leakyboots wrote: »

Kearney wants Ireland captaincy but insists he's 'not ready' yet

he doesn't say he wants it. he gives a perfect politicians answer to be honest and actually says nothing at all.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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