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'Single White Female' Security Feature

  • 09-02-2005 7:42am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 240 ✭✭


    Does anyone remember this movie?
    Just to give you an idea what I'm talking about - There's a part of the story where the main character (Bridget Fonda)has developed software for a company, when the company doesn't pay up the software is rendered useless after a period of time.
    Is something like this possible? And what would the legal implications be?
    Specifically, I am running a business in PC repair and I've been considering the inevitability of a customer not paying (for whatever reason).
    Is there anything I can install (legally) to disable (without damaging) the machine, after a time period, if final payment is not received?
    Of course, once payment is recieved, the machine is returned to a usable state.
    Or does anyone have any advice on what they do if a customer defaults on payment after the work is done.
    Cheers.


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,239 ✭✭✭Gilgamesh


    I guess you could do it like the big boys, hense, implementing a License file system.
    When they purchase a product the license is paid for for a certain amount of time.
    once this time is up, and they don't renew, the software functions are rendered useless, well, all the options will be Greyed out on it and they have to purchase a new license file and install it to get it working again


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,537 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    jjmax wrote:
    ..developed software for a company, when the company doesn't pay up the software is rendered useless after a period of time.
    Is something like this possible?
    Actually it's the norm for MOST software, look at things like software assurance, OEM , releasing new versions with incompatible file formats, removing support for older OS's , for things like word and excel the ability to open documents from the latest version using older versions of microsoft office is only there because of serious negative feedback from major corporate customers... The only difference is that SOME packages explicitly stop after a year instead of the de-facto assumed industry norm of a three year cycle.
    And what would the legal implications be?
    NONE - it's not goods or services so most laws would not apply also once they mention it anywhere in the license you are snookered.
    Specifically, I am running a business in PC repair and I've been considering the inevitability of a customer not paying (for whatever reason).
    Is there anything I can install (legally) to disable (without damaging) the machine, after a time period, if final payment is not received?
    Of course, once payment is recieved, the machine is returned to a usable state.
    Or does anyone have any advice on what they do if a customer defaults on payment after the work is done.
    Cheers.
    Legal minefield , AFAIK to be legal you would have to get them to agree to let the disabling sw to be installed, accept the license etc. I can't see anyone doing that. If there is a problem with the SW then you will have to support it , just too messy, and anyone too stingy to pay could simply wipe the drive and start again.

    You could ask for deposit up front to cover the diagnosis, deductable off the final repair, (and handed back if it's obvious that you can't sort it, for good PR) , you could insist on cash / credit card before collection on the first dealing with a company/individual

    EU law means you can charge interest on late bills, don't know if there is enough extra to cover debt collection agency and get your original bill back - really for bad debts ?

    There is the small claims court too.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭stevenmu


    jjmax wrote:
    Does anyone remember this movie?
    Just to give you an idea what I'm talking about - There's a part of the story where the main character (Bridget Fonda)has developed software for a company, when the company doesn't pay up the software is rendered useless after a period of time.
    Is something like this possible? And what would the legal implications be?
    Specifically, I am running a business in PC repair and I've been considering the inevitability of a customer not paying (for whatever reason).
    Is there anything I can install (legally) to disable (without damaging) the machine, after a time period, if final payment is not received?
    Of course, once payment is recieved, the machine is returned to a usable state.
    Or does anyone have any advice on what they do if a customer defaults on payment after the work is done.
    Cheers.

    In the film they're disabling their own software when it's not paid for. What your talking about is disabling a customers whole PC, not just negating whatever work you've done. IANAL but I'm pretty sure that's always going to be illegal no matter what you make them sign. You probably have the right to undo whatever work you've done, such as reposessing any parts you put in or uninstalling any software you've added, but you'd also have to restore their PC to at least the condition it was in before you got it off them.

    Also from an ethical point of view, that just seriously f**ked up. Imagine a customer bringing in an almost perfect PC and you just replace say a floppy drive in it. Then maybe customer decides they don't want to pay because you damaged the case while doing it and suddenly their PC just stops working altogether ! (I'm not saying you'd personally do this, just what could happen if people were able to).

    Probably the best thing to do would be letters threatening court action and reporting them to the credit beureau or whatever it's called.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 647 ✭✭✭fintan


    How about only returning the PC that you have fixed once the customer has paid?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 240 ✭✭jjmax


    Cheers for the feedback,

    It was really a 'put it out there' question.
    After all, I don't expect to have a lot of problems in this regard but there's always a few who'll F you about.
    I reckon the deposit and the small claims court are the best way.
    Thanks again.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    stevenmu wrote:
    In the film they're disabling their own software when it's not paid for. What your talking about is disabling a customers whole PC, not just negating whatever work you've done. IANAL but I'm pretty sure that's always going to be illegal no matter what you make them sign. You probably have the right to undo whatever work you've done, such as reposessing any parts you put in or uninstalling any software you've added, but you'd also have to restore their PC to at least the condition it was in before you got it off them.

    Also from an ethical point of view, that just seriously f**ked up. Imagine a customer bringing in an almost perfect PC and you just replace say a floppy drive in it. Then maybe customer decides they don't want to pay because you damaged the case while doing it and suddenly their PC just stops working altogether ! (I'm not saying you'd personally do this, just what could happen if people were able to).

    Probably the best thing to do would be letters threatening court action and reporting them to the credit beureau or whatever it's called.

    Yeah, I agree... I would seriously doubt that you have the right to disable a (presumably) Microsoft OS in any way. And it is unethical to be underhanded with customers in that way, and exploit their lack of understanding of their PC or OS. Don't do it! :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 240 ✭✭jjmax


    Well, Yeah, But if some (insert expletive here) doesn't cough up for their own makey up reason it'd be a sure fire way of getting the ends out of them.
    But it's probably more hassle then it's worth.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,107 ✭✭✭John R


    The small claims court is not available for businesses to reclaim unpaid debts, otherwise it would be used extensively for this.

    "The aim of the Small Claims Court procedure is to provide an inexpensive, fast and easy way for consumers to resolve disputes without the need to employ a solicitor. The Small Claims service is provided in your local District Court office.

    To be eligible to use the procedure, you, the "consumer" must have bought goods or services (or the service) for private use from someone selling them in the course of business. The procedure is not available for use by one business person against another.
    Rules

    Claims can be made for faulty goods or bad workmanship. Claims can also be made for minor damage to property and for the non-return of rent deposits. Claims cannot be made for debts, personal injuries or breach of leasing agreements. The procedure is designed to deal with consumer claims up to 1,270 euro."

    http://www.oasis.gov.ie/justice/small_claims_court/small_claims_court.html



    The only legal remedies (solicitors, regular courts and debt collectors) are rather time consuming and expensive. The best thing you can do is to withold the items until you have been paid in full.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 447 ✭✭MickFarr


    jjmax wrote:
    Does anyone remember this movie?
    Just to give you an idea what I'm talking about - There's a part of the story where the main character (Bridget Fonda)has developed software for a company, when the company doesn't pay up the software is rendered useless after a period of time.
    Is something like this possible? And what would the legal implications be?
    Specifically, I am running a business in PC repair and I've been considering the inevitability of a customer not paying (for whatever reason).
    Is there anything I can install (legally) to disable (without damaging) the machine, after a time period, if final payment is not received?
    Of course, once payment is recieved, the machine is returned to a usable state.
    Or does anyone have any advice on what they do if a customer defaults on payment after the work is done.
    Cheers.

    You would get your ass sued off big time!!

    We write a very expensive piece of software for large companies and in the contract that they sign they agree to also pay a monthly subscription. We have built into the coded an expiry date. When the expiry date approaches a message pops up each morning to let them know. Once the expiry date has pass they have a grace period where the message pops up every few min's very annoying and works very well.

    This is only done to get them to pay on time as before hand payments would always be late even with very well know companies but this works superbly :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 999 ✭✭✭cregser


    You could put a password on their BIOS but there's a way around that too (unless you physically lock the case). At least you wouldn't be touching their OS,software or files.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,374 ✭✭✭Gone West


    this is legally dodgy ground. consider a car mechanic putting a lock in the engine of a car and only taking ity out when the person has paid them. It's not good karma, id asy just dont return the fixed box without collecting payment first. Also it has a lot of ways to go haywire!


  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Jaeger


    fintan wrote:
    How about only returning the PC that you have fixed once the customer has paid?
    lol! Was waiting for someone to point out the obvious ;)

    Seriously is the best way to go. No money, no dice.


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