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Hard drive failure, not if.....but when !

  • 03-05-2012 10:59pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭


    Kind of ironic, I started a thread about backups a few days ago.

    This morning I arrived at the studio a few minutes before a client arrived, to be greeted by a blank monitor & a dead mac pro. After a few hours of attempted startups, I found I had a fried startup disk. I had done a clone of the startup disk using superduper about 8 weeks ago, older version of pro tools & logic but it got me going again. Not good for the nerves.

    Moral of the story folks.......back up often.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,790 ✭✭✭PaulBrewer


    Been there , 2 mixes into a project .... Had to Redo the whole Heap !
    The session heads redid it for me for petrol money.

    My soul is still scarred....

    Had a client lose a whole children's choir project recently.

    25 pairs of pissed off parents !


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭Neurojazz


    Don't know if you're into this sort of thing, but if you run a raid array in a certain way (+1) i think - that you have a running backup live with no performance loss in case of hard drive failure.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,106 ✭✭✭turbot


    At least for PCs, there is a great utility called HD Sentinel which provides real time insight about harddrive health, and an early warning for when harddrives are going kaput.

    Also, ICY-DOCK have a relatively inexpensive USB3 Hard Drive enclosure (£60stg online), that allows you to put two harddrives in Raid 1 - so everything is mirrored. Using one of these you can get a 2tb Raid 1 array for < €300.


  • Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭shayleon


    Great tips. Installed the Sentinel. Can you provide a link to the usb3 thingimabob you are talking about?

    All the best.

    S


  • Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭woodsdenis


    SonasRec wrote: »
    Kind of ironic, I started a thread about backups a few days ago.

    This morning I arrived at the studio a few minutes before a client arrived, to be greeted by a blank monitor & a dead mac pro. After a few hours of attempted startups, I found I had a fried startup disk. I had done a clone of the startup disk using superduper about 8 weeks ago, older version of pro tools & logic but it got me going again. Not good for the nerves.

    Moral of the story folks.......back up often.

    Back up on 2 separate drives and keep one of site. I had my BU drive fail. I dithered a bit but went and got another and backed up everything. 2 days later trusty old g5 went to visit Steve Jobs. Thank f***. HDs will always fail at some time. I usually replace an Audio drive every 2 years. Western Digital Caviar Blacks have been great for me. Carbon Copy Cloner for backups on a Mac. I do a BU every day.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭SonasRec


    Any good source for caviar blacks in Ireland? Thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭woodsdenis


    SonasRec wrote: »
    Any good source for caviar blacks in Ireland? Thanks

    Dabs.ie


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,945 ✭✭✭Anima


    Online backup is the way to go I'd say. I know audio files can be quite large but most people would have decent broadband now anyways. Plus you can access the files from anywhere.

    Having a RAID array is no use if your house burns down. Also it can be slower depending on the array type. It's usually faster for reading but writing is usually slower which might not suite audio applications.

    No harm having both options I guess. Raid 1 array would be relatively cheap and easy to setup.


  • Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭woodsdenis


    Anima wrote: »
    Online backup is the way to go I'd say. I know audio files can be quite large but most people would have decent broadband now anyways. Plus you can access the files from anywhere.

    Having a RAID array is no use if your house burns down. Also it can be slower depending on the array type. It's usually faster for reading but writing is usually slower which might not suite audio applications.

    No harm having both options I guess. Raid 1 array would be relatively cheap and easy to setup.

    Raid doesn't work with Protools:mad: also how much is hundred oh GB storage going to cost in the cloud ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    Thinking of putting a Drobo for backing up.

    Is anyone using Timemachine for their back ups BTW?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    SonasRec wrote: »
    I found I had a fried startup disk.
    How fúcked is it? Mates harddrive went awhile back, and with it a 8 hour recording session (was about 80GB's of data). Was able to get it back (and some older sessions) using recovery tools.

    Moral of the story; put a new harddrive into your mac, get a harddrive caddy, and run recovery software on it. Most of the time, only a small portion of the drive is FUBAR, and you'd be able to get back the newest data off it.

    As for backups, look into a tape backup. Tapes are still used today, as they have been shown to be reliable over long periods of time, and are relatively good value for money. A backup harddrive could still fail.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,714 ✭✭✭ARGINITE


    woodsdenis wrote: »
    Raid doesn't work with Protools:mad: also how much is hundred oh GB storage going to cost in the cloud ?

    Crash Plan Pro is what we use at work for many hundreds of GBs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭madtheory


    studiorat wrote: »
    Is anyone using Timemachine for their back ups BTW?
    Yes, it has saved my ass several times. It needs a lot of space to work well, and it's not really suited to archiving sessions. I'm about to do that on an entirely separate 2TB drive so I'll have that plus the Time Machine drive. Then save some more money and get another 2TB offsite...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭bradlente


    2 1TB externals have gone on the blink for me in the last few days,A lovely bit of extra ****ing stress to have to deal with.

    I'm pretty sure 1 was my own doing as I booted it up on a low voltage and its clicking like a madhouse now.

    Fortunately I haven't lost anything too important,So I suppose its a good time to learn this lesson.

    Still pissed at the fact I'll have to buy new ones to replace these now,Even if they can be repaired I can't trust them,Which sucks as I only started using 1 in February that cost close enough to 200 dollars,The others a seagate I got on sale 18 months ago and neither have had anywhere near heavy usage.

    Makes me worry about my power supplies,Systems etc. as well as having to shell out an extra couple of hundred quid now to make sure I've everything that needs to be backed up backed up.

    I may pick up that HD sentinel software,Sounds ideal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    bradlente wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure 1 was my own doing as I booted it up on a low voltage and its clicking like a madhouse now.
    Take the harddrive out, put it in a freezer bag, and leave it in the freezer for 48 hours or so. Take it out, wipe of the moisture, and plug it back into the external caddy. You should get 30 minutes to take any important files off it. When it starts clicking again, back into the freezer bag it goes. Usually allows you to get most of the important documents and files off it. I find O&O DiskRecovery works well most of the time.
    bradlente wrote: »
    Even if they can be repaired I can't trust them
    I wouldn't bother repairing them (didn't know you could, for the click of death).
    bradlente wrote: »
    seagate
    Since Maxtor and Seagate merged, I won't touch either with a bargepole; got burnt by Maxtors drives three times, so now avoid them.

    I've used Western Digital drives for the past number of years, as I have found them reliable so far.

    Popping a few internal drives into your current caddies is probably the cheapest way to go.


  • Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭SonasRec


    Anyone out there with realworld experience of using solid state drives in their mac? Reliability, performance........ Worth the extra cost?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭bradlente


    the_syco wrote: »
    Take the harddrive out, put it in a freezer bag, and leave it in the freezer for 48 hours or so. Take it out, wipe of the moisture, and plug it back into the external caddy. You should get 30 minutes to take any important files off it. When it starts clicking again, back into the freezer bag it goes. Usually allows you to get most of the important documents and files off it. I find O&O DiskRecovery works well most of the time.


    I wouldn't bother repairing them (didn't know you could, for the click of death).


    Since Maxtor and Seagate merged, I won't touch either with a bargepole; got burnt by Maxtors drives three times, so now avoid them.

    I've used Western Digital drives for the past number of years, as I have found them reliable so far.

    Popping a few internal drives into your current caddies is probably the cheapest way to go.


    I've looked at the box(like a non-moron would)and it says I've a 3 year warranty on this drive.The one I started using in February that I only got a year ago.It's also,coincidentally,A WD drive.Can't have any qualms about the product itself though as I ****ed it up.

    The Seagate drive however,I am disappointed with.I'll have to get more info on what drives to avoid from now on.Although I'm probably the majority of the problem:o

    I'm safe in regards to data.The WD drive is a drive 75% full of samples I bought with a friend at a cut price(That I found on here:))and he has his own HD for those.So I'll be backing those up firstly.The rest is pretty much stuff I don't need but will miss.

    It's made me think about my PC with a lot of the data I have there also.About 50% of it was backed up on the seagate so that's gna need another full back up straight away too.

    It's a good time for this to have happened I suppose.There's a couple of hundred gigs I haven't got backed up right now that's constantly growing,And to lose it would be gank.

    Hopefully I can get this warranty sorted anyway,Losing a few gigs of data won't hurt as much if I don't have to shell out 200 quid for a new drive.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    madtheory wrote: »
    Yes, it has saved my ass several times. It needs a lot of space to work well, and it's not really suited to archiving sessions. I'm about to do that on an entirely separate 2TB drive so I'll have that plus the Time Machine drive. Then save some more money and get another 2TB offsite...

    It's probably a stupid question. But why isn't it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭madtheory


    If one was to rely solely on Time Machine, you'd need stupid amounts of HD space, and you wouldn't be sure which was the "final" version of a project. Why? Because it backs your entire drive at hourly intervals going back as far as storage space allows. That's everything on the target drive, including apps, system etc. Bit of a mess if you just want to backup projects I think.

    When I've finished a project, I set aside some time to go through most of the audio files and delete what is not needed- such as mixes the client did not approve, PT Session File backup folders etc. Then I make two copies, one off site. The problem I'm having now is that DVDs are not big enough, and are slow to work with.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,790 ✭✭✭PaulBrewer


    I agree with Mad .

    I see Time Machine as keeping an eye on my system (even thought it is more) and actively copy sessions as they're completed to another drive.

    So in effect that's 2 backups , one in Time Machine and one on a Backup Drive plus the original session which probably remains on the Audio Drive for quite a while after completion.

    I have, after all, been stung !


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    I see. I've never bothered with Time Machine. I just presumed it worked like Retrospect or something. Does it not do incremental back-up where it just backs up the difference each time?

    How about Carbon Copy Cloner set to do incremental daily back-ups to a NAS? Would that work?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭madtheory


    studiorat wrote: »
    Does it not do incremental back-up where it just backs up the difference each time?
    Ya it does, and that's really cool, but you still end up with something that's unmanageable as an archive. I don't use CCC, I imagine it would be even more unwieldy compared to Time Machine's entirely automatic functionality. As a general safety backup thing, Time Machine doesn't use up any of your time, and I find it to be very reliable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    madtheory wrote: »
    Ya it does, and that's really cool, but you still end up with something that's unmanageable as an archive. I don't use CCC, I imagine it would be even more unwieldy compared to Time Machine's entirely automatic functionality. As a general safety backup thing, Time Machine doesn't use up any of your time, and I find it to be very reliable.

    What makes it unmanageable?

    I'm looking for a solution to back up 6 machines daily onto maybe 2 or 3 TB on a network.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭Neurojazz


    studiorat wrote: »
    What makes it unmanageable?

    I'm looking for a solution to back up 6 machines daily onto maybe 2 or 3 TB on a network.

    http://code.google.com/p/syncit/


  • Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭woodsdenis


    madtheory wrote: »
    Ya it does, and that's really cool, but you still end up with something that's unmanageable as an archive. I don't use CCC, I imagine it would be even more unwieldy compared to Time Machine's entirely automatic functionality. As a general safety backup thing, Time Machine doesn't use up any of your time, and I find it to be very reliable.

    I use CCC all the time and you can customize it to do really anything you want as far as backups are concerned. I think the issue with time machine is the huge amount of disc space it uses. I also use disk images, so you can easily move whole sets of data in on go. Try CCC, its free!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭SonasRec


    Thanks for the heads up on ccc. Gonna try it this week.

    Asked in an earlier thread for any good Irish sources for drives. Dabs.ie was recommended. Turns out they're in the uk, just clever enough to have a .ie address & free delivery.

    Got 3 wd caviar black 1TB's. Was worried that they might be noisy.......they are !


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭Neurojazz


    SonasRec wrote: »
    Anyone out there with realworld experience of using solid state drives in their mac? Reliability, performance........ Worth the extra cost?

    Performance is great, but there is a problem with them. You must only use them for 'static' information - the cells that record the information have a finite number of writes so must not be used for project drives unless you can backup/replace often.

    Typically you'd have your system / OS on that drive with your apps/audio devices where that information only changes occasionally and have your projects on other drives.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭madtheory


    SonasRec wrote: »
    Asked in an earlier thread for any good Irish sources for drives. Dabs.ie was recommended. Turns out they're in the uk, just clever enough to have a .ie address & free delivery.

    Got a silent 2TB WD for €145.60 including postage from these guys:
    http://stores.ebay.ie/xeniaonline


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,930 ✭✭✭Doge


    Neurojazz wrote: »
    Performance is great, but there is a problem with them. You must only use them for 'static' information - the cells that record the information have a finite number of writes so must not be used for project drives unless you can backup/replace often.

    Typically you'd have your system / OS on that drive with your apps/audio devices where that information only changes occasionally and have your projects on other drives.

    But having your OS on the SSD would mean constant write access, especially if you haven't the page file disabled.

    And then there's the matter of the various Temp folders in Windows.

    Internet Browsing + Installing / Updating applications means lots of temporary files being written + deleted.

    Both the OS and Apps would also write to log files and the registry, although that wouldn't be as hectic.


    The only possible advantage would be if cells used for free space are static.

    But my guess is that SSD drives, keep refreshing all the cells on the disk and there is no "static cells"?

    And possibly try to write to all the cells evenly? I guess it depends on the firmware of the SSD also.

    I remember watching a video about SSD drives on youtube, made by a guy who does contract work in data recovery for forensics.

    He mentioned that each manufacturer uses their own way of writing to SSDs, and there's no standard, which is a huge problem for people like him.

    Using portable apps on the HDD for Internet browsing, downloading, extracting (anything which heavily uses temp files)
    would be a good way of reducing the stress on the SSD.

    Recording audio tracks & projects would be pretty intensive on the SSD alright though, I agree


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭Neurojazz


    waveform wrote: »
    But having your OS on the SSD would mean constant write access, especially if you haven't the page file disabled.

    Very true - there's also a bunch of other settings to make when using them - prefetch etc...

    Great performance, but to be used with great caution!

    But, there are types of media being developed that will send this stuff the way of the dinosaurs soon :)


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