Children and the religious side of Christmas

iguana · 13-12-2014 2:22pm #1

I know there is the usual "atheists-Christmas-huh?" thread already but this is more of a question about how non religious parents specifically treat the religious side of Christmas in their family. It's not an issue for me this year as my son has just turned 2 so his entire understanding of Christmas is that Sa'a seems exciting and that mum put a tree in the livingroom and covered it in toys that she isn't keen on him playing with. But next year I suspect that the topic of Mary's boy child may very well come up seeing as how there are nativity scenes in shops, in relatives houses, in some people's gardens, etc and religious themed Christmas songs are also very common.

I was considering having toys/treats that represent the various religious/societal festivals that are celebrated mid-winter like a toy nativity set, some dreidels, a tomte/nisse, a chocolate yule log, fondue etc and explaining (as best I can to a 3 year old) why people have traditionally had a mid-winter celebration throughout history and that we can learn about the various kinds through games and food. I can also explain that Christianity is still very common in this part of the world, so Christmas and the nativity are common here. That way he can enjoy the religious aspects of Christmas parties and playgroups we go to, without confusion or indoctrination.

lazygal · 13-12-2014 3:14pm

My older child will be old enough next year to be into Santa etc and the school we're sending her to for the ecce doesn't have any denomination so doesn't do a nativity play. We don't plan on dealing with any religious element until they're in primary school and have more questions. I don't plan on buying or using any religious material, we never had a crib growing up and my parents were completely a la carte so the religious side wasn't really full on anyway. If they ask about the Christian side of things we'll explain it in a "some people believe" way but I'm not planning on over thinking things too much. From what I see even the parents raising children as Christians don't seem too bothered about the religious side.

Beaner1 · 13-12-2014 3:15pm

I tell them Jesus is the evil side of Christmas that wants to hurt children and that Santa is there to protect them.

lazygal · 13-12-2014 3:17pm

Beaner1 wrote: »

I tell them Jesus is the evil side of Christmas that wants to hurt children and that Santa is there to protect them.

I plan on telling them that at least Santa brings stuff unlike that other mythical being, God. When was the last time God.gave anyone a Lego set or Barbie?

Tasden · 13-12-2014 3:25pm

I've just told her that its when people celebrate the birth of baby jesus and told the story so she understands the nativity etc. She takes part in the nativity play (teacher asked if it was ok) in school even though she doesn't do religion. She's interested in mass and stuff so we usually go to xmas eve mass too. She knows I don't believe and she doesn't care. She hasn't made her mind up re religion but she does enjoy learning about that side of it so I don't discourage it.
There is no santa vs jesus/god discussion in our house as santa would obviously win hands down. But I don't see the issue in her also enjoying the history/traditional side of it.

eviltwin · 13-12-2014 5:06pm

I never mention religion in the house at all. My 5 year old thinks Jesus is a swear word.

mohawk · 13-12-2014 11:29pm

eviltwin wrote: »

I never mention religion in the house at all. My 5 year old thinks Jesus is a swear word.

My 5 year old also thinks Jesus is a swear word and often gives out to daddy for using naughty words!!

He goes to the local catholic school, but there has been no mention of God from my son. They aren't doing the nativity play at Christmas either. They are singing snowman songs so he hasn't heard anything about the nativity yet.

I don't plan on bringing it up until he asks.

shruikan2553 · 13-12-2014 11:59pm

Dont have children yet but planning on just saying nothing. They wont have any idea of who or what a god is unless someone else tells them or they like marvel films based on norse mythology.

It's very easy to avoid the religious aspects of Christmas anyway.

Venus In Furs · 14-12-2014 12:01am

Not a believer in god or a parent, but I think the nativity is an absolutely beautiful story - that's the angle I'd probably go for if I had a child.

MarkAnthony · 14-12-2014 12:06am

Why would one mythical being of legend be a swear-word and another one, heavily influenced by modern consumer culture not be?

That aside, I'd deal with it in the same way as any other religion and try and throw some other religions in there as well. May be explain (as best you can to a 3 year old) the Jewish and Pagan holidays of this time of year.

Best of luck OP.

smokingman · 14-12-2014 2:03am

My story time around this time of year includes all the religious stories just so my boys know about them. Knowledge is power and all that but they are already well aware that these are just stories. 5 and 3 year olds already have an in-built bull****ometer if you stand back and let them think about things.

MrPudding · 15-12-2014 10:12am

Venus In Furs wrote: »

Not a believer in god or a parent [...]

i am with you on god, but I can confirm parent do exist.

We don't really do the religious side of things at home. My youngest go to what is termed as a 'broadly christian' school. They have a kind of 'enhanced' nativity play each year. Last year it was the traditional type play mixed with Call the Midwife. Quite entertaining actually.

We have a nativity set at home which the kids love because it has loads of animals. We do the whole thing with the baby not being there until Christmas morning, but religion is simply never mentioned.

MrP

Brian Shanahan · 15-12-2014 12:34pm

Not a tactic for the younger kids, but when they get older you can use the nativity stories to highlight how many errors and internal inconsistencies in both the bible and the christian calender.

For the calender, the bible describes an event which was set in summer or early autumn (the shepherds out with their flocks in high pastures) yet is celebrated in the depth of winter. This can lead on to a discussion of christianity's syncretic tendencies, i.e. the dating of Jesus' birth was likely in competition with Saturnalia.

Then you've the problems within the bible of the "virgin" birth (explain that it was due to a mistranslation of an old prophecy which dealt with an event in the far past at the time of Jesus' birth), the differing accounts of the birth in the bible (Matthew and Luke have two very differing accounts, IIRC John doesn't even touch the birth), and the stunning lack of any evidence for the birth, some of the acts associated with it would have surely popped up in the historical literature (especially given we have a lot of historical evidence pertaining to Iudea in the late Republic).

lazygal · 15-12-2014 12:40pm

I've also heard of parents using Santa and children working out all by themselves how he can't possibly exist as a great way of allowing children to work out how God can't possibly exist either. I'll be considering that when the time comes, as I'm slightly uncomfortable with the whole Santa palaver as it is.

MrPudding · 15-12-2014 7:53pm

lazygal wrote: »

I've also heard of parents using Santa and children working out all by themselves how he can't possibly exist as a great way of allowing children to work out how God can't possibly exist either. I'll be considering that when the time comes, as I'm slightly uncomfortable with the whole Santa palaver as it is.

Funny, it was exactly the opposite with my oldest girl. We were talking about god and she was explaining why she did not believe. I never explicitly told her gods were unlikely to exist, but I always said she had to look at the evidence.

She was explaining to me why she did not believe in gods, all the things you would expect, no evidence, looks like it was made up to explain things that were unknown etc... When she had finished I asked her if there was anything else. They though for a minute and look at me in horror, 'there's no Santa, is there?'

Was funny.

MrP

Venus In Furs · 15-12-2014 11:24pm

MrPudding wrote: »

i am with you on god, but I can confirm parent do exist.

D'oh!

"A comma - the difference between 'Let's eat grandma' and 'Let's eat, grandma'". :pac:

iguana · 17-12-2014 12:57pm

I have a strong feeling that I wouldn't get away with avoiding the religious side. Since day one my little guy has adored choral music, so he pays a lot of attention to any religious Christmas carols that he hears. And while talking to him is like translating shorthand, he sings song lyrics really well, so he does pay attention already to the stories in songs, next year, I suspect he'll be even more attuned to songs. If lots of the songs he loves to hear basically tell the same story, he's probably going to want to know more about it. So I prefer for him to learn about religion from me rather than from believers.

So I'm leaning more and more toward incorporating various religious traditions into our Christmas as a fun learning exercise. We have Jewish and Pagan family as well as Christians, and Danish, Dutch and Swedish family too, so I think picking some of the nicer (not Zwarte Piet, that just makes me uncomfortable) celebrations that his cousins take part in and having a small version of them in our family would work well.

I'm thinking maybe a Charlie Brown nativity set would be fun.

smacl · 17-12-2014 6:41pm

My kids have little to no interest in religion, though were dragged to the Church on Christmas eve by their granny when younger. As an atheist, I don't feel any compulsion to get involved with religion at Christmas, beyond enjoying the holiday and the tacky tradition. At this stage, said tradition principally involves eating and drinking too much, garish woolly jumpers, trivial pursuit, Abba dance along for the WII, and the much revered Doctor Who Christmas special. Jesus and friends don't really get a look in, nor have they ever in my family, although we did have a Kenny with wings on the tree a few years back.

While I think having at least a passing knowledge of other peoples traditions is valuable, I don't think there's much value in delving too deep into their belief systems beyond that. I also think that having any kind of a nativity set on display in your house over Christmas suggests that at some level you subscribe to Christianity. I don't, and hence wouldn't. YMMV.

I have a strong feeling that I wouldn't get away with avoiding the religious side.

JaseBelleVie · 17-12-2014 8:14pm

Christmas is becoming less and less about religion as time goes on.

I know when I have kids, there'll be no "god-stuff" there to knacker proceedings; just lots of pressies, lots of food, lots of good times and lots of days spent doing nothing (which is how I spend my Christmases now anyway, but just I have no mini-me's running around).

Penn · 19-12-2014 11:31am

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/parents-fury-after-vicar-tells-4835335

Parents' fury after vicar tells schoolchildren Father Christmas DOESN'T exist

Parents have threatened to boycott a church after a vicar told children attending a school carol concert that Father Christmas doesn’t exist.

The Rev Margaret McPhee, 49, made the blunder while giving a speech to primary school kids about the true meaning of Christmas.

The curate immediately apologised for her remark but angry parents say their children were left in tears.

One wrote: “Sorry my child will not attend anymore church services again. She would not like it if we said there was no ‘god’.”

Another parent said: “I had to tell my children that the vicar was a liar basically so I could keep my children believing, keep my children as children, to let them enjoy the innocence and magic.”

And another added: “The saddest comment out of my astounded seven-year-old was not questioning the existence of Father Christmas who he still firmly believes in... rather his utter disbelief when he asked me ‘Mum why did Reverend Margaret lie to us?’”

Rev McPhee dropped her bombshell at St Mary’s Church in Stalham, Norfolk, during a carol service on Monday evening.

She asked Stalham Academy primary school pupils aged from 7 to 11 from what they thought Christmas was about.

When several youngsters called out ‘Father Christmas’ she was heard to reply that he was “make-believe” and “not real”.

The school later posted a message on its Facebook page, addressed to ‘parents and carers’, saying that the Rev McPhee had made an ‘official apology’ for her remark.

Mrs McPhee said: “As soon as the words came out of my mouth I knew I had made a huge mistake.

“I really regret it and the upset it has caused to those who were there and whoever has since heard about it.

“I love this special time of year and love to see the children, families and others enjoy it, particularly when they come to Christmas church services.

“I hope this Christmas will remain special for the children at Stalham Academy.”

The apology failed to calm the anger of parents who posted comments threatening to boycott services at the church in protest.

One mum said: “Where is the Christmas spirit these days? I was very angry. I just gasped out in horror.

“But I managed to convince my daughter that Santa was real when we left thank goodness.”

JaseBelleVie · 24-12-2014 1:38am

Kind of off topic, but despite me being quite an atheist, I have to say that I love traditional Christmas carols. The more religious ones. I also love the Christmas story itself. There is something wonderfully sweet, innocent and wonderful about the story itself. It's one of the few pleasant passages of the Bible, to be fair.

My favourite Christmas carol has to be O Holy Night, probably because it got me my first ever standing ovation when I was 10 years old and I sang this solo and a cappella at a school carol service. Even nailed the hard, high-note bits.

So basically, yeah. Just because I don't believe or anything, doesn't mean I can't get a bit warm and fuzzy hearing the stories and carols and doesn't mean I can't get a bit misty eyed when I hear some of the carols.

For what it's worth, I think this is a brilliant and modern version of the aforementioned O Holy Night from my favourite singer/songwriter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbQTaOUWDXg

Children and the religious side of Christmas

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