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Seanie Johnston Kildare Transfer?

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭dougal-maguire


    No agenda at all, just find it unbelievable that Cavan would appoint someone who has no personality or tact with his players and let the best players go. He ruined Louth football and I told him so as did many others, apart from that I can't understand how he could be trusted by another county as he has had no success anywhere. Has Mc Keever left with Mc Cutcheon now too ?

    no word on mckeever yet but reports in one of the newspapers this morning said that mccutcheon and fintan reilly have both opted out of the panel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 51,429 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    no word on mckeever yet but reports in one of the newspapers this morning said that mccutcheon and fintan reilly have both opted out of the panel.

    That's a shame. That must be at least 10 gone now. No county could sustain that.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,383 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hammer Archer


    Back to the thrend...

    Does anyone actually know if or when the transfer will be decided if johnson will go to kildare????

    why can ya's just set up a new thrend about the managerial or coaching skills of cavan:p
    Supposedly the CCCC were meeting last Monday about it, at least that's what I heard on RTE radio on Sunday. Haven't heard anything else about it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,368 ✭✭✭celt262


    If I wanted to debate with the idiots on Hogan Stand, I'd post on Hogan Stand. As I said in my original post " Narrow minded fans from Cavan, like narrow minded supporters like you in Louth, mightn't be wise enough to see the good work he is starting but he's brave enough to cope with the ignorance and criticism".

    I was willling to give him a chance at the start of this year but want him gone now.

    He hasnt a clue what he is at and is leading Cavan to divison 4.

    ****e talk about progress being made because we lost to Longford by more in the qualifers last summer is really a sign of how out of touch Andrews is with reality.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,249 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    That's a shame. That must be at least 10 gone now. No county could sustain that.

    Can you name this figure of "at least 10 gone now" that you've arrived at?

    According to the Celt, McCutcheon opted out not because he was asked to play full back but because he was told he was limited in a number of factors key to performing as an intercounty player and his playing time would be limited.

    Fintan Reilly opted out because he was told he would be reserve goalkeeper.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,249 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    No agenda at all, just find it unbelievable that Cavan would appoint someone who has no personality or tact with his players and let the best players go. He ruined Louth football and I told him so as did many others, apart from that I can't understand how he could be trusted by another county as he has had no success anywhere. Has Mc Keever left with Mc Cutcheon now too ?

    And may I ask where and when you told him this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭Tom Joad


    Lemlin wrote: »
    And may I ask where and when you told him this?

    Think the agenda of the poster here is obvious for all to see and he has obviously had some personal falling out will Val Andrews.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion on Andrews as a manager but what I object to is personalising it and not declaring your agenda or personal experience with the man. To say that the guy has no personality or tact is way offside. Tayto lover should head back to the hoganstand with all his "cavan mates with the wonderful insights and knowledge of the game" where that personalised attacking crap is tolerated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,249 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    Tom Joad wrote: »
    Think the agenda of the poster here is obvious for all to see and he has obviously had some personal falling out will Val Andrews.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion on Andrews as a manager but what I object to is personalising it and not declaring your agenda or personal experience with the man. To say that the guy has no personality or tact is way offside. Tayto lover should head back to the hoganstand with all his "cavan mates with the wonderful insights and knowledge of the game" where that personalised attacking crap is tolerated.

    Well said, his entire agenda on this thread has not been talking about Seanie Johnston or Cavan football but attacking Val Andrews at every available opportunity.

    On a number of occasions when the thread moved away from Andrews, he tried dragging it back by asking the same question in a different manner e.g. how can Cavan put up with an outsider dropping one of their own? Are supporters happy about their best player for years being dropped? Andrews can't manage players and couldn't manage Johnston. The same point over and over but worded differently.

    The Anglo Celt actually confirmed yesterday that this "ten second phone call" was ended by Johnston after "a period of silence". Now I'm no mathematician but Andrews is some genius if he could ring Johnston, have some small talk, speak about the upcoming season and have a period of silence all in ten seconds.

    If Johnston wanted answers as to why he wasn't required, then he should have asked the questions when he got that call. Andrews had already gone out of his way by making the calls to regular attendees from the panel each year when the County Board had disbanded the panel by letter. These lads had already been informed they were no longer in the county panel and Andrews was going a bit further by ringing them to explain exactly why.

    He lifted the phone to do that and, if a player hangs up, what is he to do? Johnston complains now about not being given the reasons behind being dropped but perhaps he should look towards himself for the problem. He had the chance to ask the questions and didn't take it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Gophur


    If Seanie was a serious footballer, he'd knuckle down and win his place back. If he has a problem with Val Andrews there are many who would act as a third-party to facilitate a return.

    The departures from the squad are from those unwilling to put in the graft and commitment needed to be part of a team. Far too many individuals with far too much opinion of themselves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,820 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    back on topic to the actual material issue of the transfer itself.
    Stricter rules on transfers to go before Congress
    By Martin Breheny
    Thursday February 16 2012

    STRICT new rules on what constitutes permanent residency for the purpose of GAA transfers are likely to be in place by May.

    The Rules Advisory Committee is currently working through what is a very complex area in an effort to bring greater clarity.

    It's expected to finalise its report shortly and will bring proposals to Congress in April, aimed at regularising the situation. If accepted, the new rules will come into effect in mid-May.

    Under the current rule, 'permanent residence' is not clearly defined and is instead, left to county bye-laws to decide on the eligibility of players who are seeking transfers either across county or club boundaries.

    That brings its own problems since not all counties have the same regulations.

    Cavan's Seanie Johnston is the latest high-profile figure caught up in the residency issue as he seeks to prove that his request for a switch from Cavan Gaels and Cavan to St Kevin's, Staplestown and Kildare is valid under the transfer regulations.

    The Rule Advisory Committee, chaired by Frank Murphy -- who is also the Cork county secretary -- has been working on the rule book for quite some time in an effort to address a whole range of problem areas and to simplify others.
    http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/stricter-rules-on-transfers-to-go-before-congress-3021674.html

    Interesting that the individual county by law definitions of "permanent residence" are mentioned in the article.
    In the official guide a countys own defintion of a permanent move is only mentioned in reference to a move internally in a county

    Mr Breheny has the inside track on the developments on the new clarified rule.
    By mentioning the by-laws, does he also know that this is being used as the criteria for this inter county (not internal inner county) transfer ?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 51,429 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Lemlin wrote: »
    Can you name this figure of "at least 10 gone now" that you've arrived at?

    According to the Celt, McCutcheon opted out not because he was asked to play full back but because he was told he was limited in a number of factors key to performing as an intercounty player and his playing time would be limited.

    Fintan Reilly opted out because he was told he would be reserve goalkeeper.

    The names are on the Cavan Boards as you well know. You can look them up yourself. You should be well aware of them anyway.
    A poor manager if his powers of persuasion are so lacking that players see no option than to pack up. All counties can only play with 15 starters but their other players are not walking away. Fermanagh were in as much trouble as Cavan but Peter Canavan brough them all back and has a very united panel now. A good manager looks at the positives but obviously Val can't even explain his case well enough to the likes of McCutcheon to keep him on board. Did you hear his lame excuse about only losing by 3 points to Longford ? For a minute I thought it was you Lemlin lol. Now you're not Val, are you ??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Gophur


    The names are on the Cavan Boards as you well know. You can look them up yourself. You should be well aware of them anyway.
    A poor manager if his powers of persuasion are so lacking that players see no option than to pack up. All counties can only play with 15 starters but their other players are not walking away. Fermanagh were in as much trouble as Cavan but Peter Canavan brough them all back and has a very united panel now. A good manager looks at the positives but obviously Val can't even explain his case well enough to the likes of McCutcheon to keep him on board. Did you hear his lame excuse about only losing by 3 points to Longford ? For a minute I thought it was you Lemlin lol. Now you're not Val, are you ??

    Do you not agree the players have a responsibility to knuckle down and play their part?

    The ones walking away are no good to any team. Good riddance to them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 51,429 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Tom Joad wrote: »
    Think the agenda of the poster here is obvious for all to see and he has obviously had some personal falling out will Val Andrews.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion on Andrews as a manager but what I object to is personalising it and not declaring your agenda or personal experience with the man. To say that the guy has no personality or tact is way offside. Tayto lover should head back to the hoganstand with all his "cavan mates with the wonderful insights and knowledge of the game" where that personalised attacking crap is tolerated.

    If you don't like my posts then don't read them. BUT you know they make sense as you can see it for yourself what's happening. Where is the tact and man-management in the Cavan set-up ? Val will soon start running out of players at this rate.
    My agenda is that Val has no clue about running a county team. His record supports my argument. I always speak my mind and will continue to do so if another clueless manager ever takes over in my county. I am not a sheep. I think the Cavan County Board were mad to employ him. He is a journeyman.


  • Registered Users Posts: 51,429 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Gophur wrote: »
    Do you not agree the players have a responsibility to knuckle down and play their part?

    The ones walking away are no good to any team. Good riddance to them.

    Maybe they are disillusioned. Maybe the systems are not properly explained to them. Maybe they see no future under Val for anyone or the team in general. Maybe they are now afraid to speak their minds. Maybe they are right.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭Tom Joad


    If you don't like my posts then don't read them. BUT you know they make sense as you can see it for yourself what's happening. Where is the tact and man-management in the Cavan set-up ? Val will soon start running out of players at this rate.
    My agenda is that Val has no clue about running a county team. His record supports my argument. I always speak my mind and will continue to do so if another clueless manager ever takes over in my county. I am not a sheep. I think the Cavan County Board were mad to employ him. He is a journeyman.

    I engaged in the discussion with you on this subject a good few pages back in an open fashion and was happy to do so. I was clear in my position from the start - this to me is not so much an issue about Val Andrews but about a bigger issue that's endemic in Cavan football. It has quickly become apparent to me that you have an agenda against Val Andrews and I don't like seeing it being personalised to the extent that you did. You have made some statements here that you have been called on and you move the goal posts to avoid them. You made another outlandish one today about 10 players gone - name them for me - I genuinely don't know but you name them and we can discuss them (one by one - if you like).

    You say you speak your mind, are and are not a sheep - fair play, I respect you for that - I do the same and I can tell you that I am no sheep either. I am passionate about my county team in the same way you say you are about Louth, and am quite happy to debate why I am backing the manager with anyone that's willing to engage in it without an agenda or use spurious statement to back up their argument.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Gophur


    Maybe they are disillusioned. Maybe the systems are not properly explained to them. Maybe they see no future under Val for anyone or the team in general. Maybe they are now afraid to speak their minds. Maybe they are right.

    There you go again, 100% fault with the management.

    A closed mind eh?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭MickySticks


    Anglo Celt newspaper article, it's a good read, thought some might enjoy it here.

    Written by Paul Fitzpatrick

    Seanie we hardly knew ye - and now you're gone.


    First, some background. Seanie Johnston is not a bad man, as the boxer Chris Eubank used contend. He's not a waster, a boozer, a cheat - he's "a good lad", a nice guy who doesn't even use bad language. The hum to the contrary from Breffni bar-stool experts and internet warriors has been growing louder and more vociferous and it's wrong. If you don't know him, don't judge him.
    Sean Johnston is an amateur footballer who plays for the love of the game, and has worked phenomenally hard to reach the level of skill and conditioning that he has. People see what they want to see - a swaggering, sometimes-petulant forward who has been booked countless times (but never red-carded) getting his comeuppance, or a genius, a passionate attacker held back by poor team-mates and coldly discarded by the manager...

    The truth is perhaps somewhere in between or, maybe, nowhere close at all.
    Sean's always carried himself in a way that rubs up some people wrong. He's seen as cocky but he does it in an endearing way - it's just his way, since he was a kid, likeable and fun-loving.
    Even as a teenage handballer, he would drive his coach mad. The alleys were cold - some days, when you spoke, your breath would wisp away in the air. "Jelly" would show up in tracksuit bottoms, a fleece, a benny hat, complaining that it was "freeeezing" in his own style. The coach would tut, players would giggle but in big games, when he was flinging the ball left-handed and covering the court with incredible speed, he looked like one of the best in the country.
    But he was destined for bigger things than underage handball. He repeated his Leaving Cert in Dublin before going to college and beginning training religiously, coming into the Cavan senior team at corner-forward aged 18.

    At some stage around 2004 or so, Sean became Seanie. He was in DCU by this stage and preparing like a pro. The benefits to his game were obvious. He grew stronger and more accurate and for a time looked like he could be one of the best forwards in the country.
    When I started working in the Celt in September 2008, he was the first person I rang for an interview. By then he was training on the extended panel of the Irish International Rules team and making a name as one of the best players outside the elite teams, helped by a nine-point haul against Cork in the league that was televised on the fledgling Setanta station.
    His accuracy was startling. When he was getting the right supply and was on song, he was unmarkable, as Graham Canty found out that evening.

    Around that time too, supporters had started to comment on his attitude on the field. He was the best forward, no doubt, but wildly gesticulating at team-mates and playing to the stand wasn't doing him any favours. Some saw it as a display of passion, others saw it as mé féin-ism. Based in Dublin, he'd get rolled out for GPA or college football launches, posing with a few players in Croker and answering questions from the press pack. His profile grew. Without winning anything and with just a couple of years of quality performances under his belt, he was suddenly recognised as one of the best footballers in the country. It's fair to say that he didn't deal with it all that well.
    Johnston's form came and went, then. He picked up injuries, maybe grew frustrated. He still hadn't hit the net in championship football for Cavan and his career seemed to be losing a little bit of momentum on successive poor Breffni teams.

    In 2007, he lost his place on the championship team and subsequently travelled to Chicago with two other players, missing a qualifier match.
    The following year, he was back but, under Tommy Carr, his career continued to simmer without boiling over, the pot never reaching the tipping point and sending him into the realm of truly top-class players that his skill set deserved.
    Last year was a disaster at county level. A new manager came in and took a leap of faith, handed him the captaincy but things didn't go well. A new-look Cavan were trounced by Donegal, Johnston struggled, like the rest of his team-mates. Something was going on at club level too; he wasn't picked for their championship opener against Lacken, although he came off the bench to fire a hat-trick in 20 minutes. He was back with Cavan for the qualifier against Longford, but it ended in a humiliating defeat in Breffni Park.

    After that match, I eyed him in the bowels of the stadium and asked him for an interview - he refused. I described the exchange in the following week's paper:
    "Eventually, Seanie Johnstion was one of the last to emerge, and we asked for an interview. No joy. 'Val will do it,' he said, sidling off. Andrews, of course, was long gone, media duties fulfilled.
    But the captain didn't feel like talking. Supporters, it seems, must draw their own conclusions this time."

    Maybe that - an accurate reporting of what happened - was perceived as a slight. Either way, it has been hard to give the story that has been ongoing about Johnston's proposed transfer to Kildare the balanced coverage it deserves because Sean hasn't returned calls from The Anglo-Celt - he hasn't replied to texts either. Is it arrogance? Did the Celt offend him in the past or on that occasion? It's unclear.

    (Bear in mind that in the very same week a couple of years ago that a complaint came from, coincidentally, Cavan Gaels about a perceived lack of coverage, a woman from another club approached me at a match and stated indignantly "ah, if it's not the Gaels, it won't go into the Celt anyway". People are strange, and infer what they want sometimes.)

    Whatever, this newspaper broke the transfer story on November 24 and reported what we knew. The player remained silent as speculation grew but when Colm Keys of the Indo - the country's highest-selling newspaper - came calling, Johnston picked up and gave a lengthy interview, appealing to be allowed to go to Kildare and stating that he was living in Straffan. While the yarn, as they say in the industry, had generated significant coverage, Keys' article saw it cross over and hog the headlines for a few days, online, on the radio, on TV and in print. The die was cast.


    ************************************
    Gaelic football will soon be a professional sport. Oh, you haven't heard? Well, when the GAA accepts in a discussion document that it may have to consider paying inter-county managers, when the Sunday Indo reveals that Joe Sheridan trains more then his professional rugby-playing cousin, when everyone - nutritionists, psychologists, conditioning experts, physios, doctors, even managers - are being paid, bar the players, you get the feeling that a new dawn is breaking.
    Kevin McGourty, the outspoken former Antrim player, tweeted as much last week. "Amateurisim is now gone as we know it, it stinks of what was happening in New Zealand rugby in the late 1980s and early 1990s," stated the St Gall's man.

    Then you have a situation where a county manager - Kildare's Kieran McGeeney - approaches a player from another county with a view to his transferring. Shane Supple of Dublin, however, revealed recently that, when Geezer's name flashed up on his phone, he wasn't interested.
    McGeeney, you see, is the archetypal modern manager, all furrow-browed, po-faced and oh-so-serious.

    A mythology grew up around McGeeney and his Armagh team-mates in the early years of the century. They ate £50 worth of fruit a week, the story went, and prepared like no team before them. They were the first to jet off for warm weather training (a half a century after Cavan pioneered collective training which the GAA subsequently banned, but we'll ignore that part of the narrative) and their jerseys were adorned with mysterious symbols, triangles inside circles, presumably to evoke some incredible secret bond.

    Despite overseeing relegation and his failure to deliver a Leinster title or even gain a championship victory over a blue-blood team like Dublin, Meath, Kerry, Galway or Tyrone in four years, McGeeney has been hailed as a messiah and his team have been regulary mentioned among the top four in the land, even though they're not even in the top flight of the league.
    That's way off the mark, as you suspect the man himself knows, and their opening league form - heavy defeats against Tyrone and Monaghan - confirms. The smart money is on McGeeney to be gone from Kildare by season's end, regardless of what the denouement to that season is, and he is absolutely desperate to go out on a high.

    Does he care what legacy he leaves behind? Maybe. Maybe not.
    He certainly doesn't mind bending rules and ignoring the spirit in which they were born. Too much time, effort and - let's face it, money - has gone into McGeeney's team's quest for the candle to burn out after half a decade with no tangible success. The Kildare board are 200k in debt and his team are desperately seeking a break. Needs must.

    So, Geezer needs a forward who can score, and badly. Val Andrews has one he doesn't seem to require and who has been stung to his core and is ardent to prove a point. Heeeere's Seanie!


    ************************************


    Cavan football is claustrophobic, like an over-crowded room. Clubs and committees leak like the Titanic and everyone knows everyone's business. In that environment, subterfuge is always likely to be, if not immediately exposed, then worse: the subject of dark mutterings until it grows legs and walks so far that it has turned into a different story altogether.

    It's better to be straight. Johnston told The Irish Independent that he was ditched "after a ten-second phone call". It has subsequently emerged that Johnston was the one who ended the call. That's the story coming from one side, in any case, and we have no choice but to take it as fact. Why? Johnston ain't talking - well, not to this newspaper. Not only is he not in the talking business, he's not in the acknowledging calls business, unless it's a national paper.

    Public relations is a specialist industry and an art that takes a lot of mastering. There is nothing more dangerous than an amateur PR man, which is why professional sportsmen - rugby players, top athletes, soccer stars - have agents and publicists to make sure their clients say the right thing. Sean Johnston, for a short time, enjoyed a similar profile on the back pages, yet batted for himself, making error after error.

    A Kildare-based national freelance reporter, Darragh Ó Conchuir, and one of the top freelancer snappers with ties to the nationals turned up during Johnston's first training session with St Kevin's ten days ago. Either the club or the county board wil have tipped them off. How all involved expected this to be received - or Johnston his smug-sounding invitation to reporters to "call for tea" - is anyone's guess.

    Then there was St Kevin's chairman Martin Murray publicly criticising Cavan county board for blocking a player who is "committed" to his new club. What staggering nerve that took.
    The decision to go to the Indo and strenously insist that his permanent residence was in Straffan also backfired. Football is a way of life here; as Cavan's top scorer and a player who has featured in ten county finals in as many years, Johnston is one of the most recognisable people in the county.

    He teaches in Cavan Town and, until recently at any rate, lived in an estate on the edge of the town. His house-mates are well-known. He would have been seen out and about and the football public was always going to draw its own conclusions as to the veracity of the whole thing.

    County footballers like Johnston have a strict training regime, even in the off-season. That means spending a lot of evenings in the gym. Was he using a gym near his "home" in Straffan or did he go through his weights sessions after work and then drive the 82 miles to his permanent residence?
    On one occasion, he used the gym at Breffni Park with another player and, leaving, apparently met Val Andrews entering before Cavan training.

    What a pleasant conversation that must have been.
    Had he wanted to play the role of the silent, wronged victim, he could easily have done so and, spun correctly, he'd have come out of this looking well. Instead, he granted an interview to the Indo who gave it the full tabloid treatment, blasting "LET ME GO" across its back page. He admitetd he was "poor" last year but insisted that he lived in Straffan and that that was the reason he wanted to move. It was an insult to the intelligence of readers who, just as they wanted to know why he was dropped, must surely have wondered why he was living in Kildare? That question wasn't addressed.

    He also dragged his club into the mess, putting the ball in their court by asking them to appeal to the DRA on his behalf to basically allow him to leave the county. If not, it soon became clear, he was leaving the Gaels anyway. Just who advised him that this was a clever position to take in the media and in general?

    After that, Johnston went back into his media shell, only re-emerging to grant that pre-arranged interview to Ó Conchuir.
    And then the waiting game began once more.


    ************************************

    Maybe Cavan have invited this problem on themselves; weak management breeds bad habits. In November 2008, Johnston let The Irish Independent in on his plans to take a break from football the following summer to travel to Australia and New Zealand.
    "Whether I do it this year or another year remains to be seen, but I suppose that's a decision I have to make in the next month," he said, confirming that "it would be for the summer".
    Then manager Tommy Carr's reaction was to pander to the player.

    "He'd be a huge loss, of course he would," said Carr. "There are very few counties that can do without players of that talent."
    Later that season, according to a reliable source, the board and manager encouraged him to stay at home for the summer, making a commitment to contribute towards a holiday after Cavan's involvement in the championship had ended. No-one is suggesting that the player wasn't entitled to anything he received or that there was anything sinister about it. However, the question must be asked, is this a clever way to deal with young players on the part of the board and team management?

    The year before, remember, then then-manager Donal Keogan said he'd never pick him again, yet he recalled him that Christmas after a seven-month break.
    He was seen as the best footballer in the county and maybe started to belive his own hype. Certainly, he was the focus of attention before important matches.

    In fact, the ubiquitous rigmarole over his availability for big games bordered on the farcical. It seemed that prior to every match of importance, reports surfaced that that the player was injured and struggling for fitness. Unluckily, he always seemed to pick up injuries before big games, which, thankfully, usually cleared up in time for him to take his place.
    A brief search online confirms that the memory isn't playing tricks.

    In 2005, he was the centre of attention as an injury concern before a couple of championship matches. In July, it was reported that Johnston was rated as doubtful for a do-or-die qualifier match after injuring his groin on club duty. Prior to that, before the first round of the Ulster Championship against Antrim, a story headlined "Cavan sweat over youngsters" on Hoganstand.com reported that Johnston mightn't be fit for that one. He played in both.

    In 2007, before the league semi-final against Roscommon in Croke Park in April 2007, a story online stated that then-manager Keogan was "boosted by the news that Johnston would be fit" after all.
    In July of the following year, 2008, it was reported that Johnston was "racing to be fit" for the Kildare qualifier in Newbridge having turned on his ankle in training.

    There was fervent speculation that he would miss the Fermanagh match in June of 2009 having picked up a knock at training eight days before the match. However, days before the match, he was passed fit, as Hoganstand reported in a story headed "Boost as Johnston fit for Breffnimen".
    By that winter, his injury problems hadn't cleared up with Malachy O'Rourke stating that he was an injury concern before Cavan Gaels played St Gall's in November.

    Speaking of Gall's, Johnston was reported injured before the Gaels played them in November 2007 but was fit enough to come on and play well. The same was the case before Cavan's qualifier match against Wicklow the following year, a after which match The Anglo-Celt printed a clarification after Eamonn Gaffney wrote that the player was dropped due to disciplinary reasons. He insisted it was due to injury - in the event, however, he was fit enough to come on and turn in what was arguably the best half an hour of his career.

    The trend had continued even before the Wicklow qualifier in any case. In May, before the first round of the championship against Fermanagh, Johnston himself stated in an interview that he was "50-50" to be fit.
    Having played extremely well in both matches, having been "50-50" for one and not fit to be picked at all for the othe, the chestnut came out again for the next game, the qualifier against Cork, when a national paper carried a story headed "Cavan sweat over Johnston's ankle injury" (July 2).
    Again, he started, but this time, like the rest of the team, things didn't go well on the day.


    ************************************


    How culpable is Val Andrews and the county board in all of this? Firstly, a manager, in any sport, has the absolute right to choose his team. No player is bigger than the team or deserves special treatment and if a manager feels that the squad is going to be better served without certain individuals around, he must take action.

    However, there's a growing unease at recent developments which will almost certainly lead to calls that the decision to axe Johnston and Co should be re-visited. Team selection during the first two rounds of the NFL have smacked of a manager unsure of his best line-up. Val stated as far back as October that the league was the priority, which meant that we should've been approaching the Wexford match like the first round of the championship. With five months to prepare, he would be expected to have been aware of his best 15, but within six days, four players who hadn't even been given a cameo as a sub in Wexford had been parachuted into the team.

    Maybe the manager has made his mind up to play as few of the older guard as possible. Followers of Cavan football know that Mark McKeever is one of the best footballers we have produced in the past ten years - he's strong, skilful, consistent and, crucially, vastly experienced. When he was given very little game time during the McKenna Cup, it was presumed that the reason was that his place was guaranteed anyway. Yet he hasn't got a run in two league games.

    Then there's the case of John McCutcheon, a fiercely committed player and a favourite of supporters because of his bravery and strength. He's not the most skilful but we've had too many small, ball-playing defenders over the years and the Cootehill man makes up for any limitations he has with guts and a work ethic.

    Well, he did - he quit the panel on Friday last after being more or less told that he wasn't going to feature because he was lacking in key areas. A good man lost to the cause. There's a time for blooding new players, for sure. But not all at once.

    What has all that got to do with Johnston? Well, if the manager's decisions can be questioned on other issues - and two defeats from two, good players leaving and other top ones stewing on the bench suggest they now can - then maybe it's time to review the decision to scrap Johnston, Cian Mackey, Gareth Smith, Micheál Lyng and Dermot Sheridan.
    We're not for one second calling for the head of Val Andrews here but it's clear that his team is desperately short on experience and, if the Longford match is anything to go on, lacking in firepower. Yes, they kicked 1-13 against Wexford but that same defence conceded 4-14 a week later.

    What Val is trying is noble - start from scratch, build a new team - but by God is it a painful process. It's vital that we support the manager because the chopping and changing has to stop, but if results don't pick up, the usual clamber will start. We've been here before.
    A Cavan player of the '70s and '80s told me recently that the cycle has repeated itself since his time.

    "What's happening in Cavan is that this fella is coming in, a miracle man, and every time a new manager comes in, he gets rid of all the team before. And he says 'I have to build a new team because the rest are useless, and it's going to take time'. Every time!
    "This is going on and going on and going on. It happened in my generation and we come along in a second generation and the same thing is going on with them. It's just unbelievable," he said.
    He's right. When Johnston made his debut under Mattie Kerrigan against Fermanagh in 2003, he was one of four players - Sean Brady, Patrick Brady and McKeever being the others - who were straight out of minors. That day, Cavan were beaten by the Erne men for the first time in the championship since 1914. Experience, as they say, is the teacher of all things...

    Anyway, the board vetoed the move on the grounds that there was doubt over Johnston's residency in Straffan. They were within their rights to do so and it was foolish of Johnston to allow that situation to arise in the first place.

    But, as the issue drags on and results don't go they way we want, things are starting to reflect a little more badly on the board. Yes, they appoint a manager to manage, but he is answerable to the clubs. Not publicly naming a panel has been an error - rumours abounded last week that a couple of the dropped players had been recalled and that general uncertainty can filter though to the team, especially coming after a season, 2011, when we used 41 players.

    The board have short memories too. While some of the key administrators are different, some are the same as when Cavan dipped into the transfer market themselves to bring in Rory Gallagher, who signed with Crosserlough, five years ago. There was no mention of Rule 6.9 when Gallagher togged out under a black and amber flag of convenience...

    ************************************

    There are more angles to this story than we can shake a stick at. A rules guru in the midlands was said to be giving him advice. There was talk of a legal contact with ties close to the association and of phone calls surreptitiously placed on loud speaker.
    There's wrong on both sides. We're not privy to what went on in the camp last year but we do know that Sean Johnston scored 1-26 in nine appearances, making him comfortably top scorer. Surely there could have been another way to handle his omission, another message could've been sent; he seems to think the door was closed, Cavan say it wasn't and that mis-communication - if that's what it was - is at the crux of this mess.

    On the other hand, Johnston's reaction has been over the top. To leave his club, especially, to play county football was drastic and could be a move he will come to regret.
    A player - who was threatening to break through to the elite if a few things fell into place, not least his own attitude - fighting to get away from a team that doesn't want him, and the board which employs that manager stopping it due to a doubt over a rule. What a sad, sorry mess the whole thing is.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,138 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    a good balanced article in fairness. doesnt pander to Andrews or call him the messiah, and questions his selections and poilicies, but leaves in no doubt the enigma that is Seanie Johnston.

    I remember speaking to a Wexford selector when we had beaten Galway, and we ended up facing Cork after they beat Cavan. he was at the Cavan Wicklow game, and said he would fear facing Johnston, and then when he saw him against Cork, he wondered why he was worried at all if they had got through.

    I think there is a serious hype on him, and I dont know where it is generated really. As good and all as he is, I still wouldnt have him anywhere near the top players in the country. On his day, he can be unmarkable, but therein lies the problem, on his day.

    I think the last paragraph in that piece would sum up where I would rate him too,
    A player - who was threatening to break through to the elite if a few things fell into place, not least his own attitude


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭MickySticks


    He seems to saying that Johnston kept faking injuries throughout his Cavan career, thats a serious allegation to make of a man that gives up his free time to play train and play for his county.

    It's a great read except for the part where he says Kildare have never beaten Meath under McGeeny in the championship! :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭Tom Joad


    Good article fair play mickysticks for posting it here.

    Explores both sides of the debate but jaysus this is bordering on the Keane vs McCarthy debate now - its dividing opinion so much.

    Article does also refer to the problem of Cavan football which to my mind are a more critical issue at the minute (sorry don't know how to only quote the relevant section and don't think anyone would thank me for quoting the entire story! :)

    But yet again we are at a crossroads - attention is already ramping up pressure to get rid off a manager and start the cycle again. The league game against Sligo in Breffni is massive for Cavan football and for all the good achieved by the minors and under 21's to be built on.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭Tom Joad


    He seems to saying that Johnston kept faking injuries throughout his Cavan career, thats a serious allegation to make of a man that gives up his free time to play train and play for his county.

    It's a great read except for the part where he says Kildare have never beaten Meath under McGeeny in the championship! :pac:

    I didn't read that into it at all - I took from that article his availability or otherwise was something that the management used to unsettle the opposition before a big game - after all he did end up playing in them games - interested to hear other posters interpretation of that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Gophur


    One of the greatest sins in life, in sports, in education, is wasted talent.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,138 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    Tom Joad wrote: »
    I didn't read that into it at all - I took from that article his availability or otherwise was something that the management used to unsettle the opposition before a big game - after all he did end up playing in them games - interested to hear other posters interpretation of that.

    in my opinion, it sounds like he is a bit windy. every team has a corner forward like that, complains about a niggly ankle when they are fine, but its an excuse to have if it doesnt go their way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,249 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    The names are on the Cavan Boards as you well know. You can look them up yourself. You should be well aware of them anyway.
    A poor manager if his powers of persuasion are so lacking that players see no option than to pack up. All counties can only play with 15 starters but their other players are not walking away. Fermanagh were in as much trouble as Cavan but Peter Canavan brough them all back and has a very united panel now. A good manager looks at the positives but obviously Val can't even explain his case well enough to the likes of McCutcheon to keep him on board. Did you hear his lame excuse about only losing by 3 points to Longford ? For a minute I thought it was you Lemlin lol. Now you're not Val, are you ??

    What Cavan Boards are you on about? I don't know ten players who walked away from the panel. The local paper here in Cavan has confirmed two, Fintan Reilly and John McCutcheon, but could you please name the other 8?

    I asked a question previously that you conveniently ignored (yet another one), where and when did you tell Andrews what you thought of him?


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,249 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    If you don't like my posts then don't read them. BUT you know they make sense as you can see it for yourself what's happening. Where is the tact and man-management in the Cavan set-up ? Val will soon start running out of players at this rate.
    My agenda is that Val has no clue about running a county team. His record supports my argument. I always speak my mind and will continue to do so if another clueless manager ever takes over in my county. I am not a sheep. I think the Cavan County Board were mad to employ him. He is a journeyman.

    Nothing you have stated makes any sense. That's why you continually ignore questions asked of you. At this stage, you are ruining the thread with your continual rants about Val Andrews.

    If you had an objective view, I'd have no problem with you criticising the man but you're here for one reason and one reason alone - to make ever post about criticising Val Andrews.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,249 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    Tom Joad wrote: »
    I didn't read that into it at all - I took from that article his availability or otherwise was something that the management used to unsettle the opposition before a big game - after all he did end up playing in them games - interested to hear other posters interpretation of that.

    I took it that he was keen to garner attention from the media and be the centre of attention to be honest.

    Note the parts:
    Based in Dublin, he'd get rolled out for GPA or college football launches, posing with a few players in Croker and answering questions from the press pack. His profile grew. Without winning anything and with just a couple of years of quality performances under his belt, he was suddenly recognised as one of the best footballers in the country. It's fair to say that he didn't deal with it all that well.
    The trend had continued even before the Wicklow qualifier in any case. In May, before the first round of the championship against Fermanagh, Johnston himself stated in an interview that he was "50-50" to be fit.
    Having played extremely well in both matches, having been "50-50" for one and not fit to be picked at all for the othe, the chestnut came out again for the next game, the qualifier against Cork, when a national paper carried a story headed "Cavan sweat over Johnston's ankle injury" (July 2).
    Again, he started, but this time, like the rest of the team, things didn't go well on the day.

    Note that he gave an interview himself saying he was 50-50 so it wasn't always coming from the team camp.


  • Registered Users Posts: 51,429 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Lemlin wrote: »
    Can you name this figure of "at least 10 gone now" that you've arrived at?

    According to the Celt, McCutcheon opted out not because he was asked to play full back but because he was told he was limited in a number of factors key to performing as an intercounty player and his playing time would be limited.

    Fintan Reilly opted out because he was told he would be reserve goalkeeper.

    Well Tom there is the original 6 and if my info is correct coming from friends in your own county then the list below would make 10 -
    Seanie Johnston, Cian Mackey, Michael Ling, Dermot Sheridan, Garreth Smith, James Reilly (who has now come back) Alan Clarke (who I am told left and not for the reasons given by you) John Mc Cutcheon, Fintan Reilly as Lemlin stated didn't want to be sub goialkeeper, Mark mcKeever I am told is gone too. It cannot be a happy camp.
    Either way whether its 10 or more/less gone from the panel from last year. That cannot be good for your county even though you say they were bad influences. All of them ? Maybe they were and maybe they were not. Again as I said earlier much of it comes down to man-management and keeping your players with you. As someone else said a mediator should have been brought in to help sort it out.
    Again my only "agenda" with Andrews is that I think he is a very poor manager and I have my own county's experience with him to draw on. A few of us had a bit of a shouting match with him at a game in Dundalk years ago and he came over to us and told us to get behind our county. We told him that many of us hardly missed a county match in over 30 years and that we thought he was ruining our team. He walked off at that. We are entitled to express our opinions and if that's what you call an agenda then it's an agenda. I just don't like his management style and do not consider him a good manager. I can also see from the Cavan H.S. Board that many Cavan supporters also think little of him too. Again if thinking that someone is a bluffer then I have an agenda but to be honest I think you will be discussing his performance yourselves down the road as I believe things will not work out well for your county team under him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 51,429 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Lemlin wrote: »
    Nothing you have stated makes any sense. That's why you continually ignore questions asked of you. At this stage, you are ruining the thread with your continual rants about Val Andrews.

    If you had an objective view, I'd have no problem with you criticising the man but you're here for one reason and one reason alone - to make ever post about criticising Val Andrews.

    I think you should have held onto Seanie Johnson an exceptional forward.
    Please state what questions I have not answered. I have told you why I am of the opinion that V.A. is a poor football manager and man-manager, I am not related to any Louth footballer, V.A.'s record speaks for itself.
    I would not rate our own Peter Fitzpatrick as a great manager either but he is getting there and is good with the players and has them all on board. He also got us to a Leinster Final and I felt we were robbed by a poor refereeing decision. I would also put some of the praise for that run on the previous man, Eamon Mc Eneaney, too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 51,429 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Gophur wrote: »
    There you go again, 100% fault with the management.

    A closed mind eh?

    Did you deliberately fail to see the word "MAYBE" ?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,205 ✭✭✭✭DARK-KNIGHT


    is this thread about seanie johnstons transfer or the state of cavan gaa??

    two completely different subjects lads.


This discussion has been closed.
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