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Rev. Shulze, The German Church

  • 14-07-2014 12:25am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,108 ✭✭✭


    I've held back asking this question for a very long time but as there is little or no information about this church online I feel compelled to ask the very clever genealogists here. John Grenham, as fond as I am of him and his work, only manages eleven lines of text in his book under 'General Register Office Records' and although the German Church was a church of some kind Mr. Grenham does not have his eleven lines under 'Church Records' hence it took me a while to track his reference down. I expect I will find out very little more than I already know about a couple who were married there and whence they came, except they were probably eloping at the time. Will I find out anything more by going into the GRO for Rev. Shulze's register?


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭KildareFan


    You probably know this information from the Irish Times site http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/browse/records/state/anomalies.htm:
    he Schulze Register:

    The General Register Office also holds the 'General Index to Baptisms and Marriages purported to have been celebrated by the Rev. J.F.G. Schulze, 1806-1837'. Schulze was one of a group of eleven Dublin clergymen, known with Dublin bluntness as 'couple-beggars' or 'tack 'ems', who specialised in clandestine marriages between 1799 and 1844. The records of the other ten were destroyed in the Public Record Office in 1922, but a court challenge in the 1870s resulted in Schulze's marriages being declared legally sound, and two volumes of his records were acquired by the GRO. They record 55 baptisms and c.14,000 marriages. Most of the marriages, celebrated at the German Lutheran Church in Poolbeg Street, Dublin, are for the years 1825-37 and record only the names of the contracting parties. The original is held in GRO headquarters in Roscommon. The LDS copy is on film 101771.


  • Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭KildareFan


    More information about the German Lutheran Church at http://www.dippam.ac.uk/eppi/documents/9286/page/207460
    German Lutheran Church Poolbeg Street
    John George Frederick Schulze minister
    Church in good repair
    This is a chapel for the use of the German Protestants in Dublin and the minister is paid 50l a year by the government; and the archbishop, on the nomination of the government, licenses him
    Papers relating to State of Established Church of Ireland 1820


  • Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭KildareFan


    Some further information on the Rev Schulze from the newspaper archives - some of the people he married had assumed names, so the register may not be all that useful:
    1764 Rev Schulze born in Germany
    1806 Rev Schulte became minister of the German church; he occupied the house adjoining the church until his death in March 1839; the congregation had dwindled away at that stage [Freemans Journal 15 May 1844, p3]
    1810 - he was advertising his German and English Academy at the German Church, Poolbeg Street, a female school under the care of Mrs Schulze [Freemans Journal 17 Oct 1810, p2]
    1818 Rev Schulze preached a charity sermon in aid of the Suppression of Mendicity at the German Church [Freemans journal 5 Oct 1818 p3
    1819 Rev Schulze minister to the german congregation advertised that he was teaching the german language to ladies and gentlemen at their respective places [Freemans Journal 30 Nov 1819, p2]
    1837 Rev Schulz married Captain King and Elizabeth Smith under assumed names in Cullenswood on 20 October 1837; the question of whether they had been legally married went to court after Captain King's death.
    1839 Rev Schulz died March 1839 intestate; his address at the time was Anneville Avenue, Cullenswood [Dublin Probate Records]
    1853 Rev Schultze's register was produced in the King v. King court case; this register had been lodged in the consistorial court where it had been given in evidence in the 1842 Rogers v. Rogers case which had taken place in England and which proved that Rev Mr Schulze was a regular ordained clergyman of the Church of England [Freeman's Journal 15 Dec 1853, p4]

    There is a map showing the location of the German lutheran church as well as a drawing of the church c. 1820 at http://tronker-livinginthepast.blogspot.ie/

    An article on Rev Schulze in the Irish Family History Society Journal 2008 at http://homepage.eircom.net/~ifhs/IFHSv24.htm
    1868 A temperance hall was opened in the former German Church [Freemans Journal 14 Dec 1868, p3]

    Family information on Rev Sculze at http://www.familypursuit.com/genealogy/schulze_john/john-george-frederick-schulze-b.1763-d.1839-1


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,108 ✭✭✭Jellybaby1


    Ah, I was searching for the German Church, I should have included 'Luthern'. Thanks for the info everyone. I didn't realise they had baptisms as I thought only the marriage registers survived. Can I see those indexes in the GRO?


  • Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭KildareFan


    Further on the Rev Schulze marriages - these have been included in the IGRS marriage database compiled by Rosalind McCutcheon. You can search the database at http://www.irishancestors.ie/search/marriage/index.php -

    I managed to find a marriage for my gggrandfather in the German Lutheran Church which gave me the name of my gggrandmother after 3 years of searching. This has led to a breakthrough on her branch of the family tree.... happy days.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,300 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    KildareFan wrote: »
    I managed to find a marriage for my gggrandfather in the German Lutheran Church which gave me the name of my gggrandmother after 3 years of searching. This has led to a breakthrough on her branch of the family tree.... happy days.

    It's great when that happens - one little piece of the jigsaw that opens up a whole new area of research!:)

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,108 ✭✭✭Jellybaby1


    KildareFan wrote: »
    Further on the Rev Schulze marriages - these have been included in the IGRS marriage database compiled by Rosalind McCutcheon. You can search the database at http://www.irishancestors.ie/search/marriage/index.php -

    I managed to find a marriage for my gggrandfather in the German Lutheran Church which gave me the name of my gggrandmother after 3 years of searching. This has led to a breakthrough on her branch of the family tree.... happy days.

    I haven't found my couple on that list unfortunately.


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