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#12M15M Global Day of Action

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  • Registered Users Posts: 31 Jululan


    There is even an Irish website about it:

    http://www.realdemocracynowireland.org/about/


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Global protest against what?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    kbannon wrote: »
    Global protest against what?

    Says it all in the links.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    20Cent wrote: »
    kbannon wrote: »
    Global protest against what?

    Says it all in the links.
    I'm on mobile and anyway reckon that I shouldn't really have to research what the OP is on about!


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    On the 15th of May 2011, millions of people started a process of social change, sending a clear message that we are not the property of politicians and bankers.

    The political class and the economic powers behind them continue to ignore the message. They continue imposing poverty on the people and putting our lives at risk.

    On the 12th of May, after a year of protest sweeping the globe, the ruling class digs in to maintain its power and wealth, we take back the streets and we demand:

    1. Not a single euro more for bailing out banks. The bankers and speculators caused the crisis - make them pay for it.

    2. Total transparency in the governance of the country, zero tolerance to corruption, and prosecution of those responsible for major economic crimes.

    3. A society that guarantees the following: housing, work, culture, health care, free education, political participation and a fulfilled life. Our political and economic system places these things under attack.

    4. Real Democracy NOW! Everyone’s voice, participation and welfare should be given equal importance in deciding how our society should be run.

    On May 12th people from all over the world will take to the streets and squares. From America to Asia, from Africa to Europe, people are rising up to claim their rights and demand real democracy. Now it is time for all of us to join in a global non-violent protest.

    And

    We are the Irish movement for peaceful action to demand Real Democracy Now! Inspired by the Spanish revolution and Democracia Real Ya!

    We have an open assembly weekly on Tuesdays at 7pm at Seomra Spraoi. Everyone is welcome. For map and directions click here.

    We are ordinary people. We are like you. We are of different ages, nationalities, social backgrounds and political beliefs. We get up every morning to study, to look after our homes, to go to work, or to look for work. We all work hard every day at building a better future for ourselves and for the people around us. But all of us are worried and angry about what is unfolding, politically and economically, in our society.

    We want REAL DEMOCRACY NOW! Not the pretense of democracy that presently exists in Ireland. The present system silences the voices of those who want a meaningful role in shaping our society and concentrates power in the hands of a minority. Our political system does not represent us but instead administers on behalf of unaccountable elites. It is time for us all to start a movement for a better society.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    Is another version of Occupy?


    1. Not a single euro more for bailing out banks. The bankers and speculators caused the crisis - make them pay for it.

    Ok cool - alternatives?
    2. Total transparency in the governance of the country, zero tolerance to corruption, and prosecution of those responsible for major economic crimes.

    I can totally get on board with this one. No issue there
    3. A society that guarantees the following: housing, work, culture, health care, free education, political participation and a fulfilled life. Our political and economic system places these things under attack.

    A society that guarantees all this? Maybe I'm being pedantic, shouldn't that read state? If it was left to society to provide all these things, then you are maybe a lil veering towards the libertarian aren't you? :p
    4. Real Democracy NOW! Everyone’s voice, participation and welfare should be given equal importance in deciding how our society should be run.

    And now a bit of woolly, ranty ranty, insert catchphrase here stuff.

    I appreciate the need to keep it brief though.

    Listen, I don't want to have to be involved in every little decision that needs to be made. True, I want to see reform of our system, and the nonsense of basically a powerless Dail, beholden to the wishes of the government party of the time done away with, but the more I hear and read about this participatory democracy stuff, the more I don't like it. I vote, people get elected, I want them to sort stuff on my behalf, that is why I trusted them with my vote. If, come the next election they haven't done so, I'll vote for someone else. Simples.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    20Cent wrote: »
    1. Not a single euro more for bailing out banks. The bankers and speculators caused the crisis - make them pay for it.

    Quite a few banks have paid back.
    2. Total transparency in the governance of the country, zero tolerance to corruption, and prosecution of those responsible for major economic crimes.

    How can you have total transparency? they've even tried it in companies with terrible consequences. As much transparency as possible, as little corruption as possible - but that's what they've always strived for.

    Demanding perfection is not an attainable goal, how do you measure it?
    3. A society that guarantees the following: housing, work, culture, health care, free education, political participation and a fulfilled life. Our political and economic system places these things under attack.

    This is just silly. How can a country guarantee work? it's not possible. Economically "full employment" can never exist.

    "A fulfilled life"???
    4. Real Democracy NOW! Everyone’s voice, participation and welfare should be given equal importance in deciding how our society should be run.

    In Belgium they have so many parties and such democracy they couldn't form a government for a year.


    Why not make the whole manifesto shorter and demand the moon-on-a-stick, a unicorn and the tears of a mermaid - it would be more attainable and realistic :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,507 ✭✭✭✭dsmythy


    I'll take the fufilled life, cheers.

    I've seen how people try to interact on Fine Gael's facebook page. It generally involves foot stampng when their "demands" to be responded to don't come quick enough. Everyone having their say on everything is not going to work.
    Dr Galen wrote: »
    Ok cool - alternatives?

    It's written in the link. People other than them will pay all and everything because it's everyone elses fault.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Global democracy? You mean, like the general election we held last year? Or what was that? Facism?


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    Global democracy? You mean, like the general election we held last year? Or what was that? Facism?
    It's only democracy when you get the outcome you want. When the majority vote for the guy you don't like, then that's not democracy.

    Or if you suddenly decide that you don't like the people in power, they're bound by democracy to step down and call an election.

    Apparently.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    Global democracy? You mean, like the general election we held last year? Or what was that? Facism?

    It doesn't have to make sense :P

    Global protest reminds me of :

    http://qkme.me/3p80aw


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    So every thread on this site is pretty much complaining about stuff that is happening and the Gov. Then when someone tries to do something about it what do we do.

    Moan about them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.


    Actually its the only thing that ever has changed anything when you think about it. Disagree re "ridiculous demands" there is certainly a democratic deficit in this country that needs attention.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    20Cent wrote: »
    there is certainly a democratic deficit in this country that needs attention.
    There is? How so?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    20Cent wrote: »
    Actually its the only thing that ever has changed anything when you think about it. Disagree re "ridiculous demands" there is certainly a democratic deficit in this country that needs attention.

    What did it change? They got booted out of their camps and back home again
    only change there was a change of scenery


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    20Cent wrote: »
    So every thread on this site is pretty much complaining about stuff that is happening and the Gov. Then when someone tries to do something about it what do we do.

    Moan about them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



    I think you are mixing up democracy which involves everyone eligible to vote in the country being given an opportunity to express their opinion through the ballot box in a general election or referendum under the Constitutions with discussion boards which involves a small number of people confident (arrogant?) enough in their own opinion to want to tell others about it and also having a predisposition to complain about something or someone else while disowning responsibility for what it is they are complaining about.

    If you are taking your lead from discussion boards rather than democracy maybe it is no surprise that Occupy and the other protests have disappeared with less than a whimper.

    P.S. Democracy was seen when we elected the Fine Gael and Labour coalition and will be seen again when we vote later this month.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    20Cent wrote: »
    Actually its the only thing that ever has changed anything when you think about it. Disagree re "ridiculous demands" there is certainly a democratic deficit in this country that needs attention.


    What changed? Did anything change? Remind me of the four key demands.

    How many bondholders did we burn?
    How much oil and gas did we take back?
    What new forms of participative democracy have we got?

    Oops, I have forgotten the other one, must have made a big impression all right. Oh, and don't come back with the "we changed the debate" line.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Godge wrote: »
    I think you are mixing up democracy which involves everyone eligible to vote in the country being given an opportunity to express their opinion through the ballot box in a general election or referendum under the Constitutions with discussion boards which involves a small number of people confident (arrogant?) enough in their own opinion to want to tell others about it and also having a predisposition to complain about something or someone else while disowning responsibility for what it is they are complaining about.

    If you are taking your lead from discussion boards rather than democracy maybe it is no surprise that Occupy and the other protests have disappeared with less than a whimper.

    P.S. Democracy was seen when we elected the Fine Gael and Labour coalition and will be seen again when we vote later this month.

    I'm not mixing anything up thanks.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    20Cent wrote: »
    Actually its the only thing that ever has changed anything when you think about it.
    Sitting in a tent demanding a “fulfilled life” for all is the only thing that has ever changed anything? Really? Because I’m pretty sure John Hume, Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Aung San Suu Kyi, etc., etc., etc., were/are slightly more focused and proactive than the average “occupy” tent-dweller.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Sitting in a tent demanding a “fulfilled life” for all is the only thing that has ever changed anything? Really? Because I’m pretty sure John Hume, Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Aung San Suu Kyi, etc., etc., etc., were/are slightly more focused and proactive than the average “occupy” tent-dweller.

    I bet there were people telling John Hume, Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Aung San Suu Kyi, etc., etc., etc.,that they were wasting their time and mocking them also when they started out. All those movements started with small groups.

    If you think Occupy is just about "sitting in a tent" you are very misinformed.

    Anyway this thread isn't about occupy its about this May 12th thing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    20Cent wrote: »
    I bet there were people telling John Hume, Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Aung San Suu Kyi, etc., etc., etc.,that they were wasting their time and mocking them also when they started out. All those movements started with small groups.

    If you think Occupy is just about "sitting in a tent" you are very misinformed.

    Anyway this thread isn't about occupy its about this May 12th thing.
    All those people had something to fight for. You live in one of the richest countries on Earth in the most prosperous time in human history where you don't even need a job to have a good life and you're still not happy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    All those people had something to fight for. You live in one of the richest countries on Earth in the most prosperous time in human history where you don't even need a job to have a good life and you're still not happy.

    I'm very happy thanks.
    Still think there's room for improvement though, don't you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,930 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    This thread get funnier my the post.

    Yes their is room for improvement but you are going around it the wrong methinks

    Try running for election as an independent in the next local election in your area, that would be a start.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    20Cent wrote: »
    I'm very happy thanks.
    Still think there's room for improvement though, don't you?
    You obviously aren't happy if you want to change the system. I on the other hand am perfectly happy with the system and don't want to see a major movement coem and radically alter it. Not that it will because these sorts of movements don't happen in modern first world countries. Had this unemployment rate existed 80 years ago well, that's what used to start wars.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    You obviously aren't happy if you want to change the system. I on the other hand am perfectly happy with the system and don't want to see a major movement coem and radically alter it. Not that it will because these sorts of movements don't happen in modern first world countries. Had this unemployment rate existed 80 years ago well, that's what used to start wars.

    There's nothing particularly "radical" in the demands listed by the Irish group. Look like things any modern democracy should have.

    More transparency and proper action taken to stop corruption for example would be great imo


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    20Cent wrote: »
    There's nothing particularly "radical" in the demands listed by the Irish group. Look like things any modern democracy should have.

    More transparency and proper action taken to stop corruption for example would be great imo
    Nothing radical?
    3. A society that guarantees the following: housing, work, culture, health care, free education, political participation and a fulfilled life. Our political and economic system places these things under attack.
    Soviet Union much? These are not properties of a modern capitalist country. People are supposed to sort these things out for themselves. And while it's great to demand total transperency the reality of running a state makes it unfeasible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Nothing radical?

    Soviet Union much? These are not properties of a modern capitalist country. People are supposed to sort these things out for themselves.

    We already have these things to an extent but of course could be improved upon. "culture, health care, free education, political participation"

    Work would be difficult and a fulfilled life is a bit wishy washy but certainly good goals to aim for. Doesn't say anything about the state providing these things it says society.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    20Cent wrote: »
    We already have these things to an extent but of course could be improved upon. "culture, health care, free education, political participation"

    Work would be difficult and a fulfilled life is a bit wishy washy but certainly good goals to aim for. Doesn't say anything about the state providing these things it says society.
    No we don't the government does not guarantee you a culture or a job but regardless do you actually have any ideas "how" to make things better or is this just a general wishy washy idea that things should be better. Because I know the government gets a lot of flak but from what I can see the way the country runs it self is pretty darn good all things considered. Not perfect but that's human nature for you.


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