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HEC SF: Clermont Auvergne vs Leinster; Sunday 29 April, KO 1600(CET); Live Sky Sports

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Comments

  • #122
    Hippo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭Hippo


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    I'm mystified about the Boss selection tbh. From what I've seen of him lately he's not even playing that well

    More able for the essential physical intimidation of Parra, and there's no chance of one of those special Reddan 'moments' early in the game!


  • #123
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    Reddan is in great form at the moment though

    In saying that I don't think the selection of Boss will stifle the back-line too much

    The inclusion of Jennings might have been a move to negate the difference in speed


  • #124
    prospect
    Registered Users Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭prospect


    Head says "Just too close to call"

    Heart says "I'll have €10 on Leinster with a 3pt handicap"


  • #125
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    Reddan is in great form at the moment though

    In saying that I don't think the selection of Boss will stifle the back-line too much

    The inclusion of Jennings might have been a move to negate the difference in speed

    I think sometimes it's more about picking a team to do a certain job rather than basing your selections on form. If form was the case then Locky and Reddan would both be starting.


    Having said that I don't agree with the opinion that Boss hasn't been playing well. He's been great, he's just not the same flashy type of SH that Reddan is.

    The dude even packed down in a scrum this season.... He's a monster in the SH world, he'll be using that physicality to bully his way around the rucks and give Parra a horrible afternoon hopefully.


  • #126
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Take the overall selection: Jennings at openside would suggest, we want to secure our own ball, keep the ball available and stop their powerhouses slowing down our ball. SOB moving to 6 says to me that we want him to get his hands on the ball off the ruck and build up a head of steam to punch holes. Healy ahead of VDM says the same. Clermont commit very few to the rucks. It’s very difficult to break them down by spinning the ball. They’re extremely physical defenders and quick on their feet at 11, 13, 14 and 15. There’s one area where they are not heavy hitters though and that’s the narrower areas at 9, 10 and 12. Parra, James and Fofana are all relatively lightweight. Getting a mismatch with one of them against SOB is the scenario we’ll be desperate to engineer. Which scrum half is better at securing our ball against a physical pack and bringing forwards into it on short ball? I’d put the house that we’ll see Boss try and make a snipe, suck in a forward near the ruck and offload to one of his own pack to get someone running at James.


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  • #127
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    .ak wrote: »
    I think sometimes it's more about picking a team to do a certain job rather than basing your selections on form. If form was the case then Locky and Reddan would both be starting.


    Having said that I don't agree with the opinion that Boss hasn't been playing well. He's been great, he's just not the same flashy type of SH that Reddan is.

    The dude even packed down in a scrum this season.... He's a monster in the SH world, he'll be using that physicality to bully his way around the rucks and give Parra a horrible afternoon hopefully.

    Ya I suppose that's one way of looking at it

    He should be aiming to do what Murray did with Parra in Paris. Really got under his skin that night


  • #128
    bigfeller
    Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭bigfeller


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    http://www.skysports.com/video/inline/0,,12610_7707602,00.html
    If this team was a golf course - he would be the signature hole

    Is there a special department in Sky Sports for making tripe like this up?


  • #129
    ongarite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,198 ✭✭✭ongarite


    I imagine the plan is to do what Boss/SOB did to Ulster last year in Ravenhill.


  • #130
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    totallegend wrote: »
    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    I for one can't wait to see SOB back in his best position

    He gets through work at 7 and has improved in his skills on the deck but 6 is his bread and butter

    The man was designed for ball carrying.

    I'm mystified about the Boss selection tbh. From what I've seen of him lately he's not even playing that well

    Same as that chief. No clue what's behind it but a) Joe hasn't really steered us wrong before and b) he knows a fair bit about Clermont. So hopefully it pans out.
    Get yourself a recording of Reddan/Boss' performances away to Glasgow this season and you'll see why Boss is starting. To me it was an obvious selection.


  • #131
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    I was just thinking about Madigan being behind Sexton, if he had more experience surely he would be a fantastic impact sub? I'm sure this has been pondered before, but he would become like Reddan/Cronin to spring from the bench and unleash against tiring defences.

    Right now Sexton is probably so far ahead of him he won't come on without an injury, but in a few years he would dovetail excellently with Sexton, even if he became established with Ireland.


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  • #132
    prospect
    Registered Users Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭prospect


    I see it repeatedly mentioned that Hines will know Leinsters "calls" in the lineout.

    Can someone elaborate on this for me.

    I presume that either:
    a. there are a handful of standard 'moves' employed, and that each team uses a code to communicate which they intend to play.
    Or
    b. That each team has it's own movements and that Hines will be able to recognise the target player by the other players movements.

    Forgive my ignorance, but if you don't ask, you won't learn.


  • #133
    TheGoldenAges
    Registered Users Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭TheGoldenAges


    Some posters are suggesting that O'Brien hasn't been at his ball carrying best this season. Didn't know the World Cup was last season....


  • #134
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    prospect wrote: »
    I see it repeatedly mentioned that Hines will know Leinsters "calls" in the lineout.

    Can someone elaborate on this for me.

    I presume that either:
    a. there are a handful of standard 'moves' employed, and that each team uses a code to communicate which they intend to play.
    Or
    b. That each team has it's own movements and that Hines will be able to recognise the target player by the other players movements.

    Forgive my ignorance, but if you don't ask, you won't learn.

    Teams communicate in different ways. Especially at the set piece. In the lineout for example someone will make a call and players will all know where to move from that call. Hines was a big part of the leinster lineout under the same coach and will have a good insight into how it operates and who will be jumping in any situation.

    Same goes for scrummaging and open field defense.


  • #135
    Quint2010
    Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    TheGoldenAges wrote: »
    Some posters are suggesting that O'Brien hasn't been at his ball carrying best this season. Didn't know the World Cup was last season....

    He has admitted it himself and certainly not for Leinster he hasn't. He has been taking the ball more statically and from a standing start. Second season syndrome and all that. He has however improved in recent games. Leinster need him to have a massive game on Sunday-last years standards and more.


  • #136
    Teferi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    prospect wrote: »
    I see it repeatedly mentioned that Hines will know Leinsters "calls" in the lineout.

    Can someone elaborate on this for me.

    I presume that either:
    a. there are a handful of standard 'moves' employed, and that each team uses a code to communicate which they intend to play.
    Or
    b. That each team has it's own movements and that Hines will be able to recognise the target player by the other players movements.

    Forgive my ignorance, but if you don't ask, you won't learn.

    If Leinster haven't changed the calls for the lineouts then Hines will know where Leinster are aiming for and respond accordingly by being in the right position himself or getting a teammate in position.

    You would have to imagine that a professional team change the majority of their calls and codes every year although never having played anywhere near professional level I can't comment.

    There aren't really standard moves per se but each team has moves that just tend to work for that particular team. The lineout is sort of like a really tall and fat ballet. When a play is called every player knows exactly what he or she will be doing over the next 5 - 10 seconds and a lot of it is misdirection with players being lifted early or a bit of running around etc. If they haven't changed the misdirection around either then Hines may be able to read the lineout.


  • #137
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    O'Brien hasn't been picked at 6 because he's better there.

    He is a 7 moreso than a 6 these days. The selection of himself and Jennings gives Leinster two players with that openside mindset who will attack and kill the ball. Spoiling quality of possession is key to beating Clermont.

    If Leinster wanted to make an offensive selection it would have been Kev at 6. They obviously feel they need to make more of an allowance for Clermont controlling the ball. Hence Isaac and Jenno.


  • #138
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    O'Brien hasn't been picked at 6 because he's better there.

    He is a 7 moreso than a 6 these days. The selection of himself and Jennings gives Leinster two players with that openside mindset who will attack and kill the ball. Spoiling quality of possession is key to beating Clermont.

    If Leinster wanted to make an offensive selection it would have been Kev at 6. They obviously feel they need to make more of an allowance for Clermont controlling the ball. Hence Isaac and Jenno.

    I think he is at least partly in there to carry and make holes around the fringes and some have suggested in the 10-12 channel too.


  • #139
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Tox56 wrote: »
    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    O'Brien hasn't been picked at 6 because he's better there.

    He is a 7 moreso than a 6 these days. The selection of himself and Jennings gives Leinster two players with that openside mindset who will attack and kill the ball. Spoiling quality of possession is key to beating Clermont.

    If Leinster wanted to make an offensive selection it would have been Kev at 6. They obviously feel they need to make more of an allowance for Clermont controlling the ball. Hence Isaac and Jenno.

    I think he is at least partly in there to carry and make holes around the fringes and some have suggested in the 10-12 channel too.
    Which he can do with 7 on the back. See: 2010/11 Heineken Cup, 2011 World Cup.

    It's a question of what skillset do you want on the field. They went with two guys with excellent defensive breakdown ability. Given Clermonts noncommittal approach to the breakdown they might just be looking to target that area.


  • #140
    tolosenc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    Gave Cuddles a ragging on Twitter to the extent that he responded to me. Hopefully he'll swing a dig and get sent off now.

    I also have a 6'6" 19 stone Canadian after me now...


  • #141
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    tolosenc wrote: »
    Gave Cuddles a ragging on Twitter to the extent that he responded to me. Hopefully he'll swing a dig and get sent off now.

    I also have a 6'6" 19 stone Canadian after me now...
    introduce yourself before the match maybe he will take the swing at you and get arrested, sure its not a sending off but disrutpive to Clermont.


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  • #142
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Which he can do with 7 on the back. See: 2010/11 Heineken Cup, 2011 World Cup.

    It's a question of what skillset do you want on the field. They went with two guys with excellent defensive breakdown ability. Given Clermonts noncommittal approach to the breakdown they might just be looking to target that area.

    I agree and admit I didnt look at it that way before. In defence, Jennings and SOB really should dovetail nicely.

    Dom Ryan looks like he may inherit the Jennings role, and Ryan/SOB combo on the flanks could be a good partnership for the future, particularly in a game such as this, where the breakdown is targeted.


  • #143
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    I personally think Dom Ryan could well have been starting this game if he hadn't had an unlucky season. He is a smart 7 a la Jenno but he has great physicality (best tackler in the squad probably) which has always been Jennings' downfall at the highest level.

    You've got to love our depth in the back row!


  • #144
    justsomebloke
    Registered Users Posts: 10,407 ✭✭✭✭justsomebloke


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    O'Brien hasn't been picked at 6 because he's better there.

    He is a 7 moreso than a 6 these days.

    Truthfully I think he is playing 7 due to the amount of good 6's in both the Leinster and Ireland setup compared to 7s so it better to move him to 7 and make room for one of the other 6s


  • #145
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    justsomebloke wrote: »
    Truthfully I think he is playing 7 due to the amount of good 6's in both the Leinster and Ireland setup compared to 7s so it better to move him to 7 and make room for one of the other 6s

    Whats the difference between a 6 and 7? I don't see how the two positions require varying skill sets


  • #146
    duckysauce
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭duckysauce


    tolosenc wrote: »
    Gave Cuddles a ragging on Twitter to the extent that he responded to me. Hopefully he'll swing a dig and get sent off now.

    I also have a 6'6" 19 stone Canadian after me now...

    are you serious ?


  • #147
    tolosenc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    duckysauce wrote: »
    are you serious ?

    Yes.


  • #148
    Morf
    Registered Users Posts: 3,822 ✭✭✭Morf


    Grimebox wrote: »
    Whats the difference between a 6 and 7? I don't see how the two positions require varying skill sets

    Have a look here


  • #149
    profitius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    Its not very obvious to most people.

    Generally speaking a 7 is a little lighter/smaller/shorter but has a higher workrate. 7s (AKA openside flankers) tend to be first to the breakdown and have good breakdown skills. They follow the ball more. Martyn Williams, Neil Back being good examples.

    6s (AKA blindside flankers) have a slightly different role. Generally they're taller/heavier/bigger. They're physically stronger (ie Ferris) than 7s and generally being taller, they are used more in the lineouts. They also tend to be good ball carriers.

    Look at SOB playing at 6 and 7 for an idea of the difference in roles. At 7 he has to be the first man in the ruck. At 6 he gets more ball to run with. Shane Jennings doesn't carry much but he is always making a nuisance of himself at the breakdown, slowing the ball down and putting pressure on the opposition attackers.


  • #150
    wavehopper1
    Registered Users Posts: 355 ✭✭wavehopper1


    tolosenc wrote: »
    Gave Cuddles a ragging on Twitter to the extent that he responded to me. Hopefully he'll swing a dig and get sent off now.

    I also have a 6'6" 19 stone Canadian after me now...

    You're pathetic.


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  • #151
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    Morf wrote: »
    Have a look here

    ...The 6 is positioned on the blindside of the scrum, closest to the touchline at all times, the 7 is positioned on the openside, responsible for the larger openside area...

    So are you telling me that that 6 and 7 switch places in the scrum dependant on where it is taking place on the field!? I played rugby since I was 13 and never knew this!


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