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Horrific Footage of Homeless Schizophrenic beaten by cops

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    #92
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    .............


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    #93
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    MagicSean wrote: »
    You brought up deaths in mental health wards.

    ...in clear relation to the use of force in moving 'reluctant' patients.

    Why did you bring suicides up?


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    #94
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Bambi wrote: »
    Not really, I just find it funny that people think their oh-the-humanity-that's-so-waffles response to seeing a guy being beaten is in anyway as valid as an understanding of the relevant laws or use of force matrix that the cops were operating under.

    Am I defending the coppers? Nope, I'm just having a go at this lot posting here. Cos I cant tell see whats going on in most of that video and what I can see would be in compliance with most use of force policies. If it turns out that they tazed the guy in the face repeatedly or smashed his skull in with a torch then they'll go down. If you can see where that happens in the video post the timings up. Third time of asking and no takers for that, odd :confused:

    There's two cellphone camera recordings in evidence that haven't been released as yet, the details of the beating (mentioned by the DA) likely come from those recordings.

    But please, keep "having a go" at everyone here, go against the grain, it makes you look so cool.


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    #95
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...in clear relation to the use of force in moving 'reluctant' patients.

    Why did you bring suicides up?

    A suicide committed by someone in a mental health hospital could be prevented by use of force.


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    #96
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    tdv123 wrote: »
    Are they also suppose to people they are going to "f*** them up with there fists?" And put so much pressure on someones chest they send them into a coma?

    What a plank.

    So where did you see the copper f**king him up with his fists then my man? Time put up or shut up my man.

    Maybe they did put enough pressure on his chest to crush it, that probably ain't gonna fly in a court where control through body weight could be considered an appropriate response to the level of resistance. They sat him to death? good luck with that


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    #97
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There's two cellphone camera recordings in evidence that haven't been released as yet, the details of the beating (mentioned by the DA) likely come from those recordings.

    But please, keep "having a go" at everyone here, go against the grain, it makes you look so cool.

    And you've drawn an opinion up based on your viewing of these unreleased recordings yeah?


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    #98
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    MagicSean wrote: »
    A suicide committed by someone in a mental health hospital could be prevented by use of force.

    .....at the moment I'm not sure if you're misunderstanding where I'm coming from, or throwing out red herrings.

    It is quite possible - and it happens on a regular basis - for staff in secure institutions to deal with violent patients. They use force. They do not, however, ending up killing them the vast majority of times they have to do so. This is because they use methods and a level of force appropriate to the situation.


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    #99
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    MagicSean wrote: »
    A suicide committed by someone in a mental health hospital could be prevented by use of force.

    Eeeek. Funny comment given you were questioning another posters knowledge of such.

    Surely for the above to be accurate you need to know when someone is going to commit suicide?

    It's not as if the occur in common area's in front of staff.


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    #100
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Bambi wrote: »
    And you've drawn an opinion up based on your viewing of these unreleased recordings yeah?

    No, I've seen the state he was left in, heard the audio and seen the pool of blood. The DA mentions how one of the officers kneed him twice in the head when he was on the ground with another cop on top of him.

    See now you're in a quandry, if you don't accept what the DA said then you're no better than the rest of us.


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    #101
    KamiKazeKitten
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭KamiKazeKitten


    Bambi wrote: »
    You mean call for the backup that already had been called for and had arrived? That backup? Presumably the idea of locking him in a cell had occurred to them and would explain why they were trying to handcuff the nutter before they could transport him to said cell? :confused:

    They had managed to sit on him, indicates that they would have been well able to get him into handcuffs from there, don't you agree?
    Bambi wrote: »
    Cops are supposed to beat people bloody, they're even supposed to shoot people dead, so long as that's the appropriate level of force that circumstances dictate.

    If that level of force is needed and the situation is dire enough.

    And you think that was the appropriate level of force needed in this situation? That they had exhausted all other avenues available?


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    #102
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Deleted User wrote: »
    No, I've seen the state he was left in, heard the audio and seen the pool of blood. The DA mentions how one of the officers kneed him twice in the head when he was on the ground with another cop on top of him.

    See now you're in a quandry, if you don't accept what the DA said then you're no better than the rest of us[.

    That's right you didn't see any of that on the video. F**k me.. the DA said it? Must be gods gospel so, a DA would never overegg the pudding.


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    #103
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Bambi wrote: »
    That's right you didn't see any of that on the video. F**k me.. the DA said it? Must be gods gospel so, a DA would never overegg the pudding.

    You're right, he's only letting the case happen because of moral outrage. When the cops are shown in court to have done nothing wrong it'll boost his re-election chances massively, I'm sure he's taken it all into account, lie about what the cops did, let them get off and get swept back in with the support of police.


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    #104
    tallus
    Registered Users Posts: 6,324 ✭✭✭tallus


    I wouldn't go there for a holiday. Absolute animals.


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    #105
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    KamiKazeKitten wrote: »
    They had managed to sit on him, indicates that they would have been well able to get him into handcuffs from there, don't you agree?

    No I wouldn't, and it shows that your ideas are notional tbh, if they'd managed to get him turned on his face with his hands behind him he would probably still be alive. :confused:


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    #106
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Nodin wrote: »
    .....at the moment I'm not sure if you're misunderstanding where I'm coming from, or throwing out red herrings.

    It is quite possible - and it happens on a regular basis - for staff in secure institutions to deal with violent patients. They use force. They do not, however, ending up killing them the vast majority of times they have to do so. This is because they use methods and a level of force appropriate to the situation.

    So you accept that even in a controlled environment dedicated to the care of those inflicted with mental health conditions a person can be subject to force which may result in their death. But somehow you think that police who encounter this on the street should be better able to handle the situatio?
    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    Eeeek. Funny comment given you were questioning another posters knowledge of such.

    Surely for the above to be accurate you need to know when someone is going to commit suicide?

    It's not as if the occur in common area's in front of staff.

    It's not too hard to diagnose suicidal tendancies. It's often overtly stated.


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    #107
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    Scumbag police officers. America has no business accusing other countries of human rights abuses until they deal adequately with their lawless police force.


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    #108
    Praetorian Saighdiuir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭Praetorian Saighdiuir


    Bambi wrote: »
    That's right you didn't see any of that on the video. F**k me.. the DA said it? Must be gods gospel so, a DA would never overegg the pudding.


    Your posts seem quite idiotic.

    He was sitting down minding his own business, then the cops show up, he is excessively handled by the cops which resulted in his death.

    He incurred broken ribs, fractured facial bones, he bled out on the ground, ended up on life support and then died.

    One scrawney guy does NOT need to pinned down by 5 or so cops to manage to put cuffs on him.

    Appropriate force was NOT used in this instance, if it was, the guy would not be dead.

    Obviously you know better than a DA and a judge, sure let them go, they "worked within their boundaries".

    You DO NOT understand the use of force.


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    #109
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    benwavner wrote: »
    Your posts seem quite idiotic.

    He was sitting down minding his own business, then the cops show up, he is excessively handled by the cops which resulted in his death.

    He incurred broken ribs, fractured facial bones, he bled out on the ground, ended up on life support and then died.

    One scrawney guy does NOT need to pinned down by 5 or so cops to manage to put cuffs on him.

    Appropriate force was NOT used in this instance, if it was, the guy would not be dead.

    Obviously you know better than a DA and a judge, sure let them go, they "worked within their boundaries".

    You DO NOT understand the use of force.

    That poster has a history of posting views which are of questionable morality, better just ignored.


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    #110
    Praetorian Saighdiuir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭Praetorian Saighdiuir


    karma_ wrote: »
    That poster has a history of posting views which are of questionable morality, better just ignored.


    Good call. I better not provide the bait so!


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    #111
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    MagicSean wrote: »
    It's not too hard to diagnose suicidal tendancies. It's often overtly stated.

    Once again, you are not really stating anything here. Is it your roll for the day to just make really obvious points with no real connection to anything?

    You dodged the part about where suicides will occur and i didn't even mention the fact that most patient suicides don't even occur within the facilities themselves.

    But anyway, lets not let the actual subject matter of the thread get in the way of making massively obvious statements and then pretend like we are somehow enlightened and on the cusp of understanding for having done so.

    Let me try.

    100% of murders would be avoidable if people were immortal, ergo, the victim in this case would not have died.

    Fun.


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    #112
    AskMyChocolate
    Registered Users Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭AskMyChocolate


    AskMyChocolate wrote: »
    Hopefully, it may generate enough public outrage,anger and revulsion to put pressure on the judge to hand down proper and adequate sentences in the event of conviction, than may have been handed down otherwise.... although I wouldn't hold my breath.
    El Weirdo wrote: »
    No. Just no.

    Do you really think it's a good idea that judges be influenced by the general public? Think about it.

    Sorry chief. I think you may have inferred something from my (poorly worded) post that I wasn't implying.

    What I was implying, is that law enforcement officers are often treated more leniently than they should be by judges, and justice in these cases is not served, in the same way as it would be in the case of a civilian.

    I don't think judges should be influenced by either the public or the police dept., one way or the other, hence my use of "proper and adequate sentences in the event of conviction".

    Hope that clears that up.


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    #113
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    Once again, you are not really stating anything here. Is it your roll for the day to just make really obvious points with no real connection to anything?

    You dodged the part about where suicides will occur and i didn't even mention the fact that most patient suicides don't even occur within the facilities themselves.

    But anyway, lets not let the actual subject matter of the thread get in the way of making massively obvious statements and then pretend like we are somehow enlightened and on the cusp of understanding for having done so.

    Let me try.

    100% of murders would be avoidable if people were immortal, ergo, the victim in this case would not have died.

    Fun.

    Your confusion is understandable. You latched onto a conversational exchange already in progress.


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    #114
    CoachTO
    Closed Accounts Posts: 987 ✭✭✭CoachTO


    Have to say some of the ignorance and generalisations in this thread are shocking. What happened to the homeless is horrific and hopefully those cops who did it get thrown away for a long time but not all cops in the US are scumbags.

    I spend a lot of time over there and have friends that are cops in both big cities small cities and arsehole of nowhere towns and most if not all of them were shocked by the vid when they saw it and disgusted fellow officers once again put all US cops in bad light. Every Police force in the world has a scumbag element including our own Gardai. And some don't know the difference between staying behind the line and toeing the law themselves or crossing it and bending the law to suit themselves.


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    #115
    Go Tobban
    Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭Go Tobban


    The cop repeatedly beats the guy over the head with his torch at 19:26. That is excessive force, without a shadow of a doubt. Scumbags


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    #116
    iamstop
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 11,812 Mod ✭✭✭✭iamstop


    It's for reasons like this that Ice T wrong and recorded a tracked called Cop Killer, with Bodycount, which was later banned.
    He is not anti cop, he is anti cops like these.

    https://open.spotify.com/album/69JKwCcZGdLqX4Upj3DwP7



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    #117
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    So thats your angle.....me own fault for giving you the benefit of the doubt, I suppose.

    MagicSean wrote: »
    So you accept that even in a controlled environment dedicated to the care of those inflicted with mental health conditions a person can be subject to force which may result in their death.
    .

    A shallow, pathetic, intellectually dishonest effort by you there. Nice one. Comparing accidents that happen when the best intentions are evident to incidents where only the worst appear to be on show......bit like comparing a crash due to faulty breaks and sombody driving full speed down a pedestrianised road - 'Well, they're both traffic accidents...'
    MagicSean wrote: »
    But somehow you think that police who encounter this on the street should be better able to handle the situation?
    .

    I'll go out on limb and say six to seven cops should be able to take a mentally ill and not particularily violent person in without either (a) beating him to a pulp or (b) beating him so badly he dies.


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    #118
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    MagicSean wrote: »
    ...........But somehow you think that police who encounter this on the street should be better able to handle the situatio?

    .

    .....are police not trained to get people into cuffs and under control?


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    #119
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Nodin wrote: »
    .....are police not trained to get people into cuffs and under control?

    When is the last time you tried to restrain a manic person? all the technique in the world can't help against someone who has no off switch.


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    #120
    Chorcai
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 2,283 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chorcai


    Go Tobban wrote: »
    The cop repeatedly beats the guy over the head with his torch at 19:26. That is excessive force, without a shadow of a doubt. Scumbags

    Plus the size of them, you can hear how the life is being pressed out of him, lost count on how many times he was saying I cant breath.


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    #121
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    MagicSean wrote: »
    When is the last time you tried to restrain a manic person? all the technique in the world can't help against someone who has no off switch.

    Are you going to try to switch to the general and answer questings by asking rhetorical ones now? That's nice.

    Funny you bring up the concept of "no off switch" , because he seemed to have an "O fuck" switch..." when he backed off from them at 15.40. Given he's the one dead, after being tased 4 times (approx) and given a severe hiding by a number of cops, I think its perhaps some other parties that lack an "off switch".

    Now - are or are not police trained how to control and cuff a prisoner?


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