Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Vw golf won't start

Options
2

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    Starscream25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭Starscream25


    whizbang wrote: »
    Get yourself one of those cig-lighter voltmeters.

    http://www.ebay.ie/itm/LED-Car-Battery-Electric-Cigarette-Lighter-Voltmeter-Voltage-Meter-DC-12V-24V-/181152132768?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a2d822ea0

    If your alternator is working ok, this will read 14-15volts.(engine running)
    12.5-13.5 volts is not charging.
    less than 12.5 v is discharging.
    less than 12.0 is serious.

    This will not tell you if you have a bad connection to the battery. I.E. Earth straps

    -does anyone know if this car have a permanently live socket ?

    18/10/13 5 miles
    19/10/13 0 miles
    20/10/13 0 miles

    Ok a bit of info from today 21/10/13, the car wouldn't start, this is the second time now since I started this thread. Coincidentally I received the cigarette volt meter today aswell, it read 9.5 before I jump started the car, which means it's serious as you mentioned yourself whiz. I took it for a 15 mile trip which the volt meter was giving me a range from 13.6- 14.2 but it was mostly staying at a 13.8 reading. When I got back home, car turned off, I was getting a 12.4 reading.

    I also checked to see was there any wires sitting in pooled water under the hood to which there wasn't as far as I could see.
    Ill keep an eye on readings for the next few days I think and from there will look into checking individual fuses to locate the power drain.

    Am I going about this the right way?


  • Options
    #33
    Starscream25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭Starscream25


    Interslice wrote: »
    Providing your altenator checks out this video explains how to look for whats draining your battery.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF1gijj03_0

    You can pick up a cheap multimeter in maplin for about 15 quid.

    Hi lads, could anyone link me a multimeter that includes what the guy in the YouTube video mentions that is needed for a parasitic draw test, he says it must be amp capability which goes up to 10, better if it goes up to 20 and goes down to 200milliamps, I didn't want to buy the cheapest one available just incase I get the wrong one.


  • Options
    #34
    Interslice
    Registered Users Posts: 3,506 ✭✭✭Interslice


    http://www.maplin.co.uk/ut-30b-digital-compact-multimeter-46498

    There ye go man, half price. It only goes up to ten but you battery would be dead overnight if its drawing that or more. The next one down(ut50c) goes up to 20 but it's 30 quid.

    You can use this to test your altenator too. Never the cig lighter thing. The calibration of anything of ebay can be dodgy sometimes.

    edit: sorry just seen your earlier post, ye basically look for a drop in the amps being used as you pull the fuses.. Your altenator looks OK from those readings. See how you get on with the drain test. Just follow the video. He expains it pretty well.

    edit2: just for reference your battery holds about 50 amp hours(50Ah or something similar written on the battery) so a 5 amp draw reading on the multimetre would drain it in 5 hours.


  • Options
    #35
    Starscream25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭Starscream25


    Interslice wrote: »
    http://www.maplin.co.uk/ut-30b-digital-compact-multimeter-46498

    There ye go man, half price. It only goes up to ten but you battery would be dead overnight if its drawing that or more.

    You can use this to test your altenator too. Never the cig lighter thing. The calibration of anything of ebay can be dodgy sometimes.

    Cheers inter slice, you are da man, now I'm Fairly ****e at DIY to be honest but once I get the multimeter I'm gonna give it my all. Sound man.


  • Options
    #36
    whizbang
    Registered Users Posts: 1,924 ✭✭✭whizbang


    Deffo getting to the bottom of this...!

    I would be happy enough with the charging, but 12.4 is quite low for a charged battery.
    -so basically the 15 mile trip wasn't enough to charge it fully.

    Next thing to get checked is to measure and compare both cig voltmeter, and directly at the battery. There should be no more than 0.2 volts difference. If its more, then there's a connection issue. Remove, clean and replace every single connection you can get to.

    Some meters dont do Amps, most will do 10A, very few will do more than that. A 3-1/2 digit meter will read down to 10mA on the 10Amp scale, so no worries there.

    But at the end of the day, it maybe just a combination of slightly weaker than normal charging, slightly larger than normal loads, and not enough driving to charge fully.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    Starscream25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭Starscream25


    whizbang wrote: »
    Deffo getting to the bottom of this...!

    I would be happy enough with the charging, but 12.4 is quite low for a charged battery.
    -so basically the 15 mile trip wasn't enough to charge it fully.

    Next thing to get checked is to measure and compare both cig voltmeter, and directly at the battery. There should be no more than 0.2 volts difference. If its more, then there's a connection issue. Remove, clean and replace every single connection you can get to.

    Some meters dont do Amps, most will do 10A, very few will do more than that. A 3-1/2 digit meter will read down to 10mA on the 10Amp scale, so no worries there.

    But at the end of the day, it maybe just a combination of slightly weaker than normal charging, slightly larger than normal loads, and not enough driving to charge fully.

    In the meantime while I wait for the multimeter I think maybe next time it goes flat, I'll take it for a longer trip, maybe 40 50 miles or so and after plug in volt Meter to see what read out I'm getting, hopefully it will be fully charged and higher than 12.4. But ya, next stop multimeter.


  • Options
    #38
    Starscream25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭Starscream25


    22/10/13 0 miles would start though
    23/10/13 it wouldn't start, this is the third time now and it seems that it's becoming more regular, anyway, jump started it, had to pop into town for a few different things, drove about 35 miles today, voltmeter was reading 14 while driving along.
    Got a multimeter today, was ready to jump into it but the bonnet lever is broken now, tried ripping off a few panels and trying to get at it but will have a better look tomorrow. Also the engine light came on yesterday, I don't know was it anything to do with messing around with the voltmeter, Murphy's law I suspect.


  • Options
    #39
    JohnBoy26
    Registered Users Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭JohnBoy26


    Starscream25 wrote: »
    22/10/13 0 miles would start though
    23/10/13 it wouldn't start, this is the third time now and it seems that it's becoming more regular, anyway, jump started it, had to pop into town for a few different things, drove about 35 miles today, voltmeter was reading 14 while driving along.
    Got a multimeter today, was ready to jump into it but the bonnet lever is broken now, tried ripping off a few panels and trying to get at it but will have a better look tomorrow. Also the engine light came on yesterday, I don't know was it anything to do with messing around with the voltmeter, Murphy's law I suspect.
    Why not take it for a long spin, then test the battery and take down the reading. Then disconnect the battery and leave overnight and take another reading in the morning before reconnecting the battery.

    This should tell you if it's the battery that's at fault or not. Keep in mind though that disconnecting the battery will mean losing the code in the radio(if it has one).


  • Options
    #40
    Starscream25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭Starscream25


    JohnBoy26 wrote: »
    Why not take it for a long spin, then test the battery and take down the reading. Then disconnect the battery and leave overnight and take another reading in the morning before reconnecting the battery.

    This should tell you if it's the battery that's at fault or not. Keep in mind though that disconnecting the battery will mean losing the code in the radio(if it has one).

    I don't think it's the battery as this has been happening with 3 different battery, my original battery, the battery my mechanic gave me when he just assumed my battery was a bad one, and then wehen I went to the Volkswagen dealership lads, first they were saying it was my radio drawing power, then hands free, then they wanted to replace my battery to which I said that it can't be the battery as it's relatively new but got it changed anyway.
    I think I'll go down the route with the YouTube link inter slice put up and check the fuses but I'm up for suggestions.


  • Options
    #41
    wildefalcon
    Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭wildefalcon


    If you do the above test on two nights - one leaving the battery in, and one taking it out, you'll learn if something IS draining the battery.

    Battery drops charge when in - drain,

    battery keeps charge when out - no drain.

    Then you know that you have to do the drain search.

    I still think the solar charger is the handiest way out.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    Starscream25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭Starscream25


    wildefalcon wrote: »
    If you do the above test on two nights - one leaving the battery in, and one taking it out, you'll learn if something IS draining the battery.

    Battery drops charge when in - drain,

    battery keeps charge when out - no drain.

    Then you know that you have to do the drain search.

    I still think the solar charger is the handiest way out.

    Ya I'll get round to doing this alright, monsoon down here so I'll wait a few days, decided to go to local mechanic for the engine light that came on other day sorted and also the bonnet lever that broke other day, tried fixing it myself but can't. While I was there I asked him about athe parasitic draw, he didn't seem to know much about it, how rare are parasitic draws? he described a similar issue with a car a few decades ago but he didn't have long to work on it.i spoke to him about carrying out a parasitic draw test referring to the YouTube video which I think has hit the nail on the head but he said he's never done it befor, I said I'd give it a go myself

    31 miles yesterday no problem starting, voltage 14.2 with cigerette volt meter.


  • Options
    #43
    Starscream25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭Starscream25


    Hi lads, I'm going to jump into this tomorrow so, and I'm just wondering am I getting my wires right on the multimeter, picked this one up locally other day.
    The black lead goes into the middle black COM
    The red lead goes into the left 10A DC, and when I touch the wires off the negative battery wire and terminal the setting on the multimeter should be at V20 at the Tenno clock position on the multimeter.
    Got the battery fully charged at local mechanic today, bonnet lever is fixed.
    No problems since I reported the last one, travelled a good 150 miles since last update.


  • Options
    #44
    Interslice
    Registered Users Posts: 3,506 ✭✭✭Interslice


    Use the red socket on the right to measure voltage. For the amp draw start with the socket on the left first then swap over to the one on the right IF you can't get a reading using the socket on the right. The right hand port is fused 200mA max(.2A) for measuring small voltages with more delicate circuitry.

    If you look at the symbols above the socket the right hand one is V ohms and mA 200mA max, and the one on the left is just for amps, 10A max. Set the sockets and the dial to the correct setting before you connect the probes up to a battery or whatever your measuring.


  • Options
    #45
    Interslice
    Registered Users Posts: 3,506 ✭✭✭Interslice


    Starscream25 wrote: »
    The red lead goes into the left 10A DC, and when I touch the wires off the negative battery wire and terminal the setting on the multimeter should be at V20 at the Tenno clock position on the multimeter.

    Close, right setting, but the wrong socket.


  • Options
    #46
    Starscream25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭Starscream25


    Interslice wrote: »
    Close, right setting, but the wrong socket.

    Nice one


  • Options
    #47
    Starscream25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭Starscream25


    Interslice wrote: »
    Use the red socket on the right to measure voltage. For the amp draw start with the socket on the left first then swap over to the one on the right IF you can't get a reading using the socket on the right. The right hand port is fused 200mA max(.2A) for measuring small voltages with more delicate circuitry.

    If you look at the symbols above the socket the right hand one is V ohms and mA 200mA max, and the one on the left is just for amps, 10A max. Set the sockets and the dial to the correct setting before you connect the probes up to a battery or whatever your measuring.

    Feeling excited now, measured an aa battery there, got 1.22 readout, I'm getting into it alright.


  • Options
    #48
    Interslice
    Registered Users Posts: 3,506 ✭✭✭Interslice


    Starscream25 wrote: »
    Feeling excited now, measured an aa battery there, got 1.22 readout, I'm getting into it alright.


    Best of luck with it. One of them and circuit diagrams will pinpoint any electrical problem really.


  • Options
    #49
    Starscream25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭Starscream25


    Interslice wrote: »
    Best of luck with it. One of them and circuit diagrams will pinpoint any electrical problem really.

    I don't know have I hit a brick wall or am I misusing the multimeter but my draw test is giving me a read out of .51 then drops down to .44 and stays there.
    I have the red lead on the left 10A DC input and dial at 10A when I carry this test out.
    Does this suggest there's no significant draw coming from car?

    When I checked the voltage (red lead into right terminal and dial at V 20 I was getting different read outs throughout the day, last night it was 11.9, after a 10 mile drive today it was up to 12.7, after another 10 miles or so I'm getting and just 2 minutes ago I'm getting 12.59.


  • Options
    #50
    Starscream25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭Starscream25


    The only fuse box I've went near so far is the one under the bonnet.
    When I have my amp read out of .44 and use the leads while taking out one fuse at a time, 3 fuses have made the amp readout go down.
    One fuse I pulled brought it down to .33 from .44, the other down to .37 and another to .41, should I not be concerned about this and move onto fuse box inside car or do these fuses look like culprits?


  • Options
    #51
    whizbang
    Registered Users Posts: 1,924 ✭✭✭whizbang


    It sounds like you are on the right track there.

    0.44 is lower than i would expect for a draw thats discharging the battery.

    However if the fuses you are pulling, each mean a current draw of 0.11, 0.07, and .03.
    That looks about right. But keep going to see if you can find a bigger change.

    Also check on the fuses you are pulling, to see if that circuit should be using any power at all.
    i.e. headlights, fuel pump, etc, etc


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    Interslice
    Registered Users Posts: 3,506 ✭✭✭Interslice


    Here's some diagram's to know what your at. Don't know you car very well, i've only a Mk IV VW myself. Could be something like the auxilary coolant pump running all the time. Just an example not saying it is or anything. Seems like your your using it right. You've .4 of an amp draw going on which would drain your battery in 100 hours. Sounds about right allowing for short journeys and the time between flat batteries. Alternators aren't great at charging batteries.

    http://vwts.ru/electro/g5/g5_fuse_relays.pdf

    http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1797.0

    after a 10 mile drive today it was up to 12.7, after another 10 miles or so I'm getting XX.XX V and just 2 minutes ago I'm getting 12.59.

    I think you missed a bit in that sentence but looks like your altenator is working fine?


  • Options
    #53
    Starscream25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭Starscream25


    whizbang wrote: »
    It sounds like you are on the right track there.

    0.44 is lower than i would expect for a draw thats discharging the battery.

    However if the fuses you are pulling, each mean a current draw of 0.11, 0.07, and .03.
    That looks about right. But keep going to see if you can find a bigger change.

    Also check on the fuses you are pulling, to see if that circuit should be using any power at all.
    i.e. headlights, fuel pump, etc, etc

    Ya I was expecting up in the 2. Something or 3. Something like your man in the YouTube I'm referring to is getting, tomorrow ill take better note of which ones are giving me a draw, write them down and also start with the fuse box inside driver door. Will have to disengage the door sensor aswell, will a sponge taped over it do? Don't have a clamp. Will have to get my hands on plastic clamps aswell to hold rods in place, will make a trip up to halfords one of these days.


  • Options
    #54
    Starscream25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭Starscream25


    Interslice wrote: »
    Here's some diagram's to know what your at. Don't know you car very well, i've only a Mk IV VW myself. Could be something like the auxilary coolant pump running all the time. Just an example not saying it is or anything. Seems like your your using it right. You've .4 of an amp draw going on which would drain your battery in 100 hours. Sounds about right allowing for short journeys and the time between flat batteries. Alternators aren't great at charging batteries.

    http://vwts.ru/electro/g5/g5_fuse_relays.pdf

    http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1797.0


    Cheers inter slice, will be referring to your links.
    Ya the voltage I forgot to put in was around the 12.4 mark as far as I can remember, basically today it was 'fully charged' while I was messing around with it. Regarding safety I'm wearing gloves while putting rods on battery, I'm getting a spark when I put the black rod on the terminal, nothing to worry about I assume, a bit of rain came down when I was using it today aswell, was a bit worried there for a while.
    Am I right in saying there's a third fuse box in the boot somewhere,have only located the 2 so far.


  • Options
    #55
    Interslice
    Registered Users Posts: 3,506 ✭✭✭Interslice


    Am I right in saying there's a third fuse box in the boot somewhere,have only located the 2 so far.

    Looks like it on the first page of the pdf alright.

    Only watched the start of that video but I remember him sayinf the car is dying over night, every night so that would explain the 3 or 4 A draw or whatever he's getting. Your making some progress, a brick wall is when you pull every fuse and don't get a change :P.
    Ya the voltage I forgot to put in was around the 12.4 mark as far as I can remember, basically today it was 'fully charged' while I was messing around with it.

    Normal enough fluctuations for a day like today. Wipers and lights on etc. Charging seems sound to me.


  • Options
    #56
    faolteam
    Registered Users Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭faolteam


    just wondering ,
    whizbang wrote: »
    Get yourself one of those cig-lighter voltmeters.

    http://www.ebay.ie/itm/LED-Car-Battery-Electric-Cigarette-Lighter-Voltmeter-Voltage-Meter-DC-12V-24V-/181152132768?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a2d822ea0

    If your alternator is working ok, this will read 14-15volts.(engine running)
    12.5-13.5 volts is not charging.
    less than 12.5 v is discharging.
    less than 12.0 is serious.

    This will not tell you if you have a bad connection to the battery. I.E. Earth straps

    -does anyone know if this car have a permanently live socket ?


  • Options
    #57
    Starscream25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭Starscream25


    faolteam wrote: »
    just wondering ,
    Ya I find it handy, it's cheap too.
    Tells me whether I'm charged,draining or ****ed


  • Options
    #58
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,002 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    faolteam wrote: »
    Are these any good? just wondering
    Basic electronic equipment from China, costing £2.59 incl. p&p. Say €3 all-in. Probably accurate enough...

    Long-term, get a multimeter though.

    Not your ornery onager



  • Options
    #59
    Mar4ix
    Registered Users Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭Mar4ix


    I had similar problem , but different car, at the end turned out was insecure connection on starter motor (fiat punto alternator lead goes through starter, in same time connected to battery). So it was charging car time to time, i had new battery and it was flat within week, then i replaced by warrianty battery, that was for couple weeks, and then went flat, then i was trying remember what i did before battery change, and it was starter motor change, when checked wiring, turned out alternator and battery wiring was pretty loose, and alternator couldnt charge battery, after tighting up screws, all went good.


  • Options
    #60
    Starscream25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭Starscream25


    Hi lads, just want to say thanks for all your help with my car so far, haven't done much lately with it due to bad weather and lazyness but I'm on the right track thanks to ye and will be doing a bit more on it in the next few weeks, so I just wanted to say happy Christmas and a happy new year. :)


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #61
    whizbang
    Registered Users Posts: 1,924 ✭✭✭whizbang


    keep us posted!! We were startin to miss ya!


Advertisement