Is Britain the NWO Test State?

indough · 17-03-2009 3:24am

no it isnt a valid concern, your rights to free travel go out the window until youve paid for your crime. it may be 'only' speeding or similar offences, but lets not forget that speed related deaths on the roads are one of the biggest killers

Run_to_da_hills · 17-03-2009 3:30am

indough wrote: »

what point are you trying to make hear, nobody cares about this

sweeping statement, plenty care about "e border" surveillance. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/libby_purves/article5913445.ece

You will more than likely see the same system applied to the north, detecting traffic well in advance by ANPR cams across various routes as they approach the border. It is just one step closer to the Orwellian police state.

indough wrote: »

Where's the conspiracy?

Its in the title of the thread.

Mahatma coat · 17-03-2009 4:02am

indough wrote: »

no it isnt a valid concern, your rights to free travel go out the window until youve paid for your crime. it may be 'only' speeding or similar offences, but lets not forget that speed related deaths on the roads are one of the biggest killers

OK SO I once sped down the A5 at 82Mph, oh my god that makes me a Baby Eating monster, and I have no rights nor should I for such a henious crime, and my passenger well she tossed a half eaten apple out the window too, so neither of us should ever be allowed anywhere ever, lock us up indefinitley Sir tis for our own good.

what is this due process you speak of, pshaw with these outmoded notions of rights and civil liberties, hangin is too good for the like of us.

So you have no real objection to being tracked and traced in your every movement, whilst some little techie writes programs to track your every movenment ands see how many laws you break, ergo how much money they can illicit from you.

this has nothing to do with protecting you, this is a revenue raising tool, these things never end well.

Picture the propaganda machine rolling into action
Family goes to board ferry to france, in the Ma's SUV, mother is taken aside and informed that she cant leave the country due to unpaid parking tickets, panic ensues, eldest sun finaly admits that he's been borrowin the car and hiding the tickets

RFID your Cars and get 'Kidtracker'so you always know where they are and what theyr doing and who they're with

And so will we, your Friendly Lizzzzzard cabal

everytime kid goes over 70 an automatic fine is issue til eventually he is in front of a magistreate negotiating on the details of his Fine

indough · 17-03-2009 4:10am

yeah whats your point? dont speed, then theres no problem its as simple as that

you cant take the moral high ground from a position of guilt its just not possible

indough · 17-03-2009 4:19am

actually maybe i was too hasty, perhaps there is a conspiracy. let this be a warning to all you sheeple out there, the nwo is coming for you, and theyre gonna make you pay those damn speeding fines whether you like it or not, so get out now while you still can!!!

***insert ridiculous image from CT site here***

Diogenes · 17-03-2009 5:29am

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

This could also include offenses on hired cars, unpaid toll fines and any other outstanding charges owed the authorities no matter how minute.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/4996018/Motorists-could-be-banned-from-leaving-Britain-over-unpaid-parking-fines.html

Ahem;

Your article wrote:

It is anticipated that such powers would be used when substantial arrears have been accumulated.

In the case of parking fines, these provisions would be triggered when the debt becomes the subject of an order issued by Northampton County Court.

RttH in misrepresentation shocker. If your fine/offence has reached such a level you'll have plenty of opportunity to appeal the decision before they ban you from traveling.

Diogenes · 17-03-2009 5:47am

Mahatma coat wrote: »

therefore wouldnt RTDH's be a valid concern, in that Oh you have EU rights but We're gonna ignore them and impose our petty beaurocracies on ye instead cos we want more of your money and god Damm it you Should be afraid of us, even if you've done nothing wrong we should still scare the Bejaysus out of ya We're the AUTHORIRTIES

I think it's fundamentally clear that in this instance, that the power will used if you've done something wrong, and have the right to appeal, and choose to ignore it.

In the UK you to go through several steps before you even reach the stage of a court issued fine.

Mahatma coat · 17-03-2009 5:48am

Northampton Court, which is convieniently located near the main offices of most of the private firms collecting the debt, the court that also issues over a million summons a year for 'Debt' related 'offences'

oh yeah, cant see any conflict there or opportunity to abuse powers, no sireeeeee bob, clean as a whistle, dont know why I ever doubted them :eek:

Diogenes · 17-03-2009 6:10am

Mahatma coat wrote: »

OK SO I once sped down the A5 at 82Mph, oh my god that makes me a Baby Eating monster,

No but you've broken the law. They are called speed limits not speed guidelines.

and I have no rights nor should I for such a henious crime,

No you're going to face a small fine, and the possibility of points on your licence.

OH MY GOD THE HUMANITY!

If you're going to be farcical and hyperbolic about the crime, we can be similar about the punishment.

The penalty for speeding is pretty minor. The laws is very clear, the speed limit is clearly laid out. You need to get over yourself. Stop exaggerating.

what is this due process you speak of, pshaw with these outmoded notions of rights and civil liberties, hangin is too good for the like of us.

And did anyone throw you in prison for this act? Take away your licence? Was your life impacted in any way? No?

So you have no real objection to being tracked and traced in your every movement, whilst some little techie writes programs to track your every movenment ands see how many laws you break, ergo how much money they can illicit from you.

So to be clear, it's not that you feel that the speed limit is wrong, it's that you find it offensive that people that break the law are caught.

It seems your argument is that not that you dispute the speed limit, but you dislike the idea of being caught and punished for breaking the speed limit.

If you argument was "I think the speed limit on the A5 should be 82 miles a hour." That would have merit, it's just your argument appears to be "I like going over the limit, and object to be being punished for knowingly breaking a law".

this has nothing to do with protecting you, this is a revenue raising tool, these things never end well.

Yes because speed limits have never saved any lives. :rolleyes:

Picture the propaganda machine rolling into action
Family goes to board ferry to france, in the Ma's SUV, mother is taken aside and informed that she cant leave the country due to unpaid parking tickets, panic ensues, eldest sun finaly admits that he's been borrowin the car and hiding the tickets

When I was 19, I was pulled over for breaking a red light. I was fined, and asked to bring my licence and insurance into a police station. I forgot. 3 months later, my parents got a knock on the door, and the police delivered the summons for this failure. I had to go to court and explain myself.

Now reading the article, if I hadn't turned up in court, and received a fine in absence, a significant fine, under those circumstances, I could, possibly have my travel restricted.

Frankly if your parenting is so shoddy, that not only can your child borrow a car under your nose, regularly, the child receiving several traffic violations, a court ordered appearance, and the issue of a court issued fine, I would wonder about your ability as a parent.

everytime kid goes over 70 an automatic fine is issue til eventually he is in front of a magistreate negotiating on the details of his Fine

I'm not even dignifying this with a response. How do you know your kid is driving? Or just not in your car in the passenger seat eating an apple as his dad speeds?

Mahatma coat · 17-03-2009 6:20am

What wee first need is a clearer definition of Law and Statute, Bylaws Police Powers acts etc

they are not all the same and to start with that assumption is willfilly ignorant of the situation

So What LAW have I broken, who have I harmed?

Run_to_da_hills · 17-03-2009 6:30am

Diogenes wrote: »

Ahem;

RttH in misrepresentation shocker. If your fine/offense has reached such a level you'll have plenty of opportunity to appeal the decision before they ban you from traveling.

How long dose it take a €3 easipass fine to escalate to €40? just days.

The UK is a minefield of ANPR, Gatsos and MCS cams and its only worse its getting it dose not take much for a law abiding citizen to be caught out.

It would not surprise me in the least if up to date tax clearance certs were a future requirement for passing UK e_border control.

So much for freedom of movement within the EU. :rolleyes:

Diogenes · 17-03-2009 6:32am

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Northampton Court, which is convieniently located near the main offices of most of the private firms collecting the debt,

I think you've got a chicken and a egg issue here MC. You seem to suggest that the court's location is because of it's proximity to debt collection agencies. I would suggest that the agencies moved there to be close to the court.

the court that also issues over a million summons a year for 'Debt' related 'offences'

I'm sorry why the commas around 'debt' or 'offences'? Do you dispute the concept of a court issued fine? Or do you philosophically reject the concept of a parking offence or a speeding offence? Do you think people should park anywhere or drive at whatever speed they desire at whatever time they desire.

If the answer to those two points is "No" what alternative do you suggest.

Ladyfellow, the former British transport minister was on top gear a few years ago, and said that the British government make £21m a year from traffic cameras. Which on a personal level is a vast sum of money. On a governmental level it's nothing. Apparently Simon Cowell pays more tax than that a year.

Going back to that thing when I was 19, for simply forgetting to turn up to show my insurance and licence, a cop had to spend a morning in court. When my case was called I stood up, showed my paper work, explained how two days after being stopped, I went on holiday and forgot, I apologised, and offered to make a £50 pound donation to SvP. The judge dismissed the case. There were a half dozen Garda their that day, dealing with 15 or sixteen cases. The loss in revenue to state, in wasted Garda time, in loss of PRSI from all the people who had to take the day off to explain themselves.

Anyone who seems to think traffic cameras, and parking laws are all designed as some kind of licence to print money don't know the first thing about reality.

oh yeah, cant see any conflict there or opportunity to abuse powers, no sireeeeee bob, clean as a whistle, dont know why I ever doubted them :eek:

You believe teh Lizzzards/Masons/Jews whatever are trying to enslave humanity, carried out 911, faked the holocaust, started WW2, and apparently are also, nefariously desperately trying to control us, through, er traffic laws. It's a little lame MC. Apparently all you need to do to evade the NWO stormtroopers, is obey the speed limit, and park in designated spaces. I mean shouldn't they be trying to force us to all get national ID card by nuking Dundalk?

This makes about as much sense as suggesting that we need to all get barcodes tattoo'd on the back of our necks before we can get library books.

Diogenes · 17-03-2009 6:49am

Mahatma coat wrote: »

What wee first need is a clearer definition of Law and Statute, Bylaws Police Powers acts etc

To go back to your example.

You wrote:

OK SO I once sped down the A5 at 82Mph, oh my god that makes me a Baby Eating monster,

You seem completely clear that you are aware that the speed limit on the A5 is not 75mph.

they are not all the same and to start with that assumption is willfilly ignorant of the situation

Well again sorry, in order to be in charge of a car, you need to pass a thing called a 'driving test'. This tests your knowledge of the 'rules of the road', these 'rules' are a 'legally enforceable' set of 'laws'. By passing this 'driving test' it is therefore assumed that you understand and agree to adhere these 'laws'. One part of these 'laws' that you need to 'understand' is the 'speed' 'limit' on our 'roads'.

Added to that there are these 'signs' on the side of the road. These consist of two 'numbers' painted 'black', surrounded by a red 'circle'. These 'signs' lets you the 'driver' clearly know what the legal (and sorry to get technical here) 'speed' 'limit' is. If the 'numbers' on your 'speedometer' in your 'car' exceeds this number on this particular stretch of 'road', you are considered to be 'speeding'.

If you didn't see the 'sign' well thats your problem. The rules of the road assume the driver is 'paying' 'attention' and aware of 'his' 'environment'.

So What LAW have I broken, who have I harmed?

You've broken the speed limit. Did you miss the part where you willfuly admitted doing that?

If I am to understand your argument, you are saying that it is unacceptable for the the state to interfere with our motorists even to the degree that exists today.

You're also saying that we need to have more evidence that the person driving was innocently ignorant of the laws, which would suggest that we need more surveillance to prove this, or need to send more cases to court, which will waste taxpayer money.

Wow it's lose lose.

Diogenes · 17-03-2009 7:02am

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

How long dose it take a €3 easipass fine to escalate to €40? just days.

Days in with it's very clear to you that you owe three euro. I go over a toll road I know I need to pay the toll. The 40e is an incentive to pay quickly. If you don't pay on time, you pay a fine. I'm really unclear at the source of your outrage.

The UK is a minefield of ANPR, Gatsos and MCS cams and its only worse its getting it dose not take much for a law abiding citizen to be caught out.

Hey I've been done, I'm not saying the camera are always completely fair. I got caught doing 50 down the 7 sisters rd at 4am (doing 50 on the 7S road is daft during daylight hrs it's always too congested for anyone to conceivably do 30 never mind 50) But like your example above, the fine came, I paid it, and I got on with it. Suggesting that traffic cameras are a tool of the NWO is just daft.

It would not surprise me in the least if up to date tax clearance certs were a future requirement for passing UK e_border control.

So much for freedom of movement within the EU. :rolleyes:

Previously you've complained about traffic offensives in other EU states appearing on your licence in Ireland, and how this is an outrage. It seems your issue is once again not with freedom of movement but impunity from punishment from traffic offences.

Supposing it is true supposing there is an NWO aching to enslave us all. Essentially all you need to do to thwart this dastardly act is obey the speed limit, and all traffic laws, and if you do break the law, pay your 3€ toil or 40€ fine promptly, and they can't stop you from travelling anywhere in your car.

It's hardly the The Nuremberg Laws, now is it?

Come on

Run_to_da_hills · 17-03-2009 8:08am

Diogenes wrote: »

Days in with it's very clear to you that you owe three euro. I go over a toll road I know I need to pay the toll. The 40e is an incentive to pay quickly. If you don't pay on time, you pay a fine. I'm really unclear at the source of your outrage.

Its a method of extortion, a scam and is an outrage, in days gone people paid cash on the spot end of story. The only offenders were the odd biker that would occasionally speed through barrier gaps. Now tens of thousands of motorists are treated as criminals, mostly through error, genuine confusion and ignorance of the system. Just read the amount of complaints in the motoring forum, (Boards poasters is Just a fraction of Westlink customers and this would not include the elderly etc).

I have mentioned in previous posts that you are further penalized for not installing an active RFID tracking device in your car. I don't particularly want something extra that has the ability to accurately pinpoint my whereabouts across the city. Why should I have to pay extra to respect my privacy? (Give it time and car parks, public parks, shopping malls, dumps. parking meters etc will be all compatible with these devices)

Diogenes wrote: »

Suggesting that traffic cameras are a tool of the NWO is just daft.

A damn good tool at that, most of the next generation MCS Gatsos currently being rolled out across the UK have facial recognition, built in infrared ANPR that can record every reg plate that passes a point irrespective if the vehicle was speeding, committing an offense or not. Data can then be forwarded live through the pulse system, monitored and stored for several years. http://www.gatsometer.com/index.php?p=12775

Diogenes wrote: »

Previously you've complained about traffic offensives in other EU states appearing on your license in Ireland, and how this is an outrage. It seems your issue is once again not with freedom of movement but impunity from punishment from traffic offenses.

I have a serious issue with e_border control and the direction that it is heading. Chipped RFID border control is far more sophisticated and interrogating than any conventional passport control ever imposed on by the former Soviet Union or Nazi Germany. No doubt the rest of the EU including Ireland will follow suit. If the EU Parliament was what its supposed to be they would have nipped this in the bud on grounds of civil liberties, but because it is suppose to aid "anti terrorism" measures the sheeple are lead to believe that it is all a very good thing. :rolleyes:

Mahatma coat · 19-03-2009 8:44am

I was thinkin about this and all the draconian laws that they can fine you for etc.

I decided I needed a simpler more straight forward example of this rather than trafic 'laws'

so I thought

Bicycle Helmets, now theres a serious oversteping of the boundarys as far as I'm concerned.

Run_to_da_hills · 19-03-2009 9:06am

Mahatma coat wrote: »

I was thinkin about this and all the draconian laws that they can fine you for etc.

I decided I needed a simpler more straight forward example of this rather than trafic 'laws'

so I thought

Bicycle Helmets, now theres a serious oversteping of the boundarys as far as I'm concerned.

Don't you worry, this will soon creep into Europe along with high viz vests.

getz · 19-03-2009 9:17am

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Don't you worry, this will soon creep into Europe along with high viz vests.

why do sky divers have to put on helmets ?

neonic75 · 20-03-2009 9:58am

Not really a big conspiricy theorist but I have a quick question. Ok first lets assume that "there is" some shadow organisation that thats trying to implement a new world order be it through the UN or EU or USA or whatever. Next lets assume that this shadow organisation , which unlike the vast majority of govenments and state bodies, is competent enough to not only keep either it'self and it's agenda hidden for however many years it is since it deceided on undertaking such a mission. Next lets assume it's competent enough to actually carry out said coupe. Why exactly would this be such a bad thing? Surly a single world economy would be much more managable, nothing would really change? As regards freedom at the end of the day you still have the same people walking the beat in uniform as always. Nothing changes. If a few idiots with more money than sense want to feel important and think they can plot and scheme, and if they want to do this in cloaks or whatever the hell they want. Nothing changes. Please point out if I'm wrong

d0gb0y · 20-03-2009 7:28pm

neonic75 wrote: »

Not really a big conspiricy theorist but I have a quick question. Ok first lets assume that "there is" some shadow organisation that thats trying to implement a new world order be it through the UN or EU or USA or whatever. Next lets assume that this shadow organisation , which unlike the vast majority of govenments and state bodies, is competent enough to not only keep either it'self and it's agenda hidden for however many years it is since it deceided on undertaking such a mission. Next lets assume it's competent enough to actually carry out said coupe. Why exactly would this be such a bad thing? Surly a single world economy would be much more managable, nothing would really change? As regards freedom at the end of the day you still have the same people walking the beat in uniform as always. Nothing changes. If a few idiots with more money than sense want to feel important and think they can plot and scheme, and if they want to do this in cloaks or whatever the hell they want. Nothing changes. Please point out if I'm wrong

Tbh it might make the economy easiar to manage but since most economic problems are caused by these people its hard to say.
As to what diference it will make to your life, its hard to say aswell but you can be sure that there will be forced population control which means that your kid/s might not get to have any kids because the rulers say so.
If you think it will lead to world peace well I disagree unless they find a way to control peoples minds I would imagine that there would be a lot civil unrest and since these people would not be nice masters it would be very bloody.
Don't forget they will have control over all aspects of your life, any form of privacy would be out the window. It would also create a lot of distrust in people and I don't think that would be good for humanity.
If you are the kind of person who would like to be a loyal lapdog to your masters I see this future as an utopian paradise for you.

Edit
Also whats to say that their direction would be the right course, if you look at a some of the people involved in this they are a poor(although materially wealthy) excuse of human beings. Consider that most of us just want to live and enjoy life and not manipulate the rest into killing each other.

One last edit
To use a famous saying "the end does not justify the means used to attain it"

Run_to_da_hills · 21-03-2009 6:46pm

After fighting tooth and nail to block their publication, the British Goverrment has finally been forced to cough up the so-called Gateway reviews of its decision to proceed with ID cards.

Followers of this saga will know that the Information Commissioner had told the Government to publish the confidential documents and this decision had been upheld on appeal. But Ministers fought to the bitter end against the request under the Freedom of Information Act.

The reviews show that all the big arguments deployed for ID cards - they will stop terrorists, curb crime, limit immigration etc - were just so much eyewash.

Further reading.

http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/index.cfm?entryid=2013&blogid=14

bonkey · 21-03-2009 9:07pm

So you're saying that this Information Commissioner isn't in the pocket of the NWO, right?

Run_to_da_hills · 30-03-2009 12:10am

The UK microchipped Identity card net is closing in. Passengers on ferries to the Isle of Wight and Scottish islands such as Mull and Skye will soon have to carry identity papers to comply with new police "anti-terror" powers. This is typical on how the card is creeping in right across the country, very soon it will be required on person travelling in all internal public transport.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1165560/Now-need-ID-cards-trip-Isle-Wight.html

thecommander · 30-03-2009 11:56am

bonkey wrote: »

So you're saying that this Information Commissioner isn't in the pocket of the NWO, right?

I'd like to know too.

Diogenes · 30-03-2009 12:02pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

This is typical on how the card is creeping in right across the country, very soon it will be required on person travelling in all internal public transport.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1165560/Now-need-ID-cards-trip-Isle-Wight.html

Would you have an ETA? 6months? A year? Two years? How long is "very soon?"

Undergod · 30-03-2009 12:26pm

To use a famous saying "the end does not justify the means used to attain it"

Yeah, well to use another famous saying, "The end justifies the means", or "A stitch in time saves nine". You can use lots of old sayings, doesn't mean they mean anything.

I did see on the paper that the UK are planning on keeping a log of everyone who leaves the country, and that the information wil lbe stored for something like 10 years. That is pretty worrying.

Funny aside: The ad at the bottom of the screen reads "Illuminati World War III" and has an icon of a speeding shopping cart beside it.

Run_to_da_hills · 30-03-2009 12:30pm

Diogenes wrote: »

Would you have an ETA? 6months? A year? Two years? How long is "very soon?"

I don't put dates on such but one can see the progress towards electronic smart card use in public transport which is almost the same as using an ID card.

One only has to look at the progress of the registered "Oyster card" in the last 5 years. The only difference between the National ID card and the Oyster card is a photo and some extra security measures. Both cards digitally track and trace all your movements when touched by a scanner / E_tagged. http://www.independent.co.uk/money/invest-save/the-data-trails-that-reveal-every-detail-of-our-lives-1650473.html

Diogenes · 30-03-2009 1:15pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I don't put dates on such but one can see the progress towards electronic smart card use in public transport which is almost the same as using an ID card.

One only has to look at the progress of the registered "Oyster card" in the last 5 years. The only difference between the National ID card and the Oyster card is a photo and some extra security measures. Both cards digitally track and trace all your movements when touched by a scanner / E_tagged. http://www.independent.co.uk/money/invest-save/the-data-trails-that-reveal-every-detail-of-our-lives-1650473.html

I recently had to get my Oyster card updated, there was a fault with it. The address they had for me was three years out of date, (they didn't try to update it) and I had to offer no proof of Identity, or address when revalidating my travel card.

In short the Oyster card is nothing more than a convenient way of travelling around London.

In fact I have three spares than I give to visiting guests, they can top them up, and use them when they visit (as it's significantly cheaper than paying cash) The cards are (I think) in my wife's name, my name, and my wife's parents names. But I can't remember, and I can't tell which one is which, so about a dozen people over the years have wandered across london on these cards.

When I've been stopped by ticket inspectors they've made no attempt to check whether I am genuinely the owner of this card, only that I have a valid ticket for this journey.

In short RtdH this is a pretty useless method of tracking us.

But to go back to your original point, you claimed that national ID cards would be required for all public transport "very soon" when asked to give us an estimation, you've quickly back tracked and side stepped.

Will you admit that you've no idea even if national ID cards are going to be introduced in the UK, never mind made mandatory on public transport?

Harolds+ · 30-03-2009 5:12pm

its a matter of time before there is another 9/11 attack (just like the US Govt inflicted on its people (and Irish) then) and it will be not only mandatory to be chipped (internally) but all monetary transactions and day-to-day dealings will be conducted via this chip so that we can be monitored and if we act out of line then the chip is turned off.

Check out the below link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nD7dbkkBIA

Run_to_da_hills · 30-03-2009 7:55pm

Diogenes wrote: »

I recently had to get my Oyster card updated, there was a fault with it. The address they had for me was three years out of date, (they didn't try to update it) and I had to offer no proof of Identity, or address when re validating my travel card. ?

Again the Oyster card is only in its infancy, It is still open to abuse, nothing stopping anyone transferring these cards. Give it time and they will be required to include photo ID and SSN attached. Many are already linked up to credit card or mobile phone top up accounts. For those that are foolish to think that they are anonymous don't realize that they are photographed on high definition CCTV when they "top up" or "tag in/out".

Diogenes wrote: »

In short the Oyster card is nothing more than a convenient way of traveling around London.

And also an up and coming tool for the authorities to track and trace every move to the increasing number of people that are opting for the system. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/4800490.stm

Diogenes wrote: »

In fact I have three spares than I give to visiting guests, they can top them up, and use them when they visit (as it's significantly cheaper than paying cash) The cards are (I think) in my wife's name, my name, and my wife's parents names. But I can't remember, and I can't tell which one is which, so about a dozen people over the years have wandered across london on these cards.

Again as I said the system is relatively new, I have my own card of which still has my initial registration details which has not changed in four years.

Diogenes wrote: »

When I've been stopped by ticket inspectors they've made no attempt to check whether I am genuinely the owner of this card, only that I have a valid ticket for this journey.

Even on conventional tickets inspectors rarely inspect tickets for transfer offenses. Registered Oyster card has the advantage over conventional tickets in that they can be "locked out" of the system if they are reported lost or stolen.

Diogenes wrote: »

In short RtdH this is a pretty useless method of tracking us.

Again not so according to that BBC article, the system needs to be "cleaned up" a lot more to make it effective.

Diogenes wrote: »

But to go back to your original point, you claimed that national ID cards would be required for all public transport "very soon" when asked to give us an estimation, you've quickly back tracked and side stepped.

Yes it will be very soon and all it will just take a major bomb spectacular like that one in Madrid on the British mainline rail system and you can guarantee that Gordon Brown will fast track (excuse the pun

) compulsory registered ID cards for all internal public transport.

Horror pictures like the above will convince the public for the necessity of carrying state ID on all public transport.

We already had the 13.56 MHZ RFID chipped passport introduced across the globe in the aftermath of 9/11. 7/7 brought a massive successful campaign to get Londoners conditioned to Oyster offering great incentives including an up to 75% reduction over cash fares.

Currently there is a huge campaign in London to get people to register their cards, Digital posters can be seen right across the system, telling people that their money is "safe" if their ticket is lost or stolen with a registered Oyster card. The same poster depicts the Oystercard as an image of a safe with cash locked inside it.

Diogenes wrote: »

Will you admit that you've no idea even if national ID cards are going to be introduced in the UK, never mind made mandatory on public transport?

We had no idea about chipped passports being introduced until 9/11. Before that there would have been uproar from civil liberties groups, now they are seen as a "essential part of international security against terrorism." We will soon be hearing the same story with carrying National ID cards on public transport. :rolleyes:

Is Britain the NWO Test State?

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