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Letters from Child Benefit every 4 months

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Comments

  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 6,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭mp22


    5. This is not a forum for critiscizing Government Departments or Semi-State Bodies.

    5a - 5 includes the policies of the Government Departments or Semi-State Bodies

    If this discussion can continue without infringing on the above fair enough,if not the thread will be closed.

    mp22


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 955 ✭✭✭LovelyHurling


    cee_jay wrote: »
    From [url]www.welfare.ie:[/url]

    Anti-fraud checks
    EU/EEA citizens and Swiss national covered by EU Regulations are required to certify every 4 months that they continue to work in this State.

    What do they mean 'continue to work in the state'. Since when do you have to be working to receive child benefit? If an EU citizen working in Ireland loses their job, they are still entitled to child benefit.

    Since Irish people are also EU citizens, that paragraph does not really clarify whether or not Irish citizens have to prove their continuing residence here or not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,496 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    vicM wrote: »
    And yet its still an issue for some

    Actually the last two times there was no envelope. :-(


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,920 Mod ✭✭✭✭cee_jay


    Child Benefit is a payment subject to Habitual Residence Condition. However, Child Benefit is classed as a Family Benefit under EU regulations. Therefore, EU/EEA citizens and Swiss nationals working in Ireland satisfy the habitual residence condition for Child Benefit.
    From the guidelines:
    Child Benefit is classified under EU law as a Family Benefit. Applicants whose entitlement to Child Benefit derive from the application of the provisions of EEC Regulation 1408/71 do not have to satisfy the condition as European legislation takes precedence over Irish legislation. In effect the EU rules contained in Articles 73 to 76 of Regulation 1408/71 governing the payment of family benefit to migrant workers from EEA Member States override the habitual residence requirements under the Social Welfare Acts.

    These rules apply to employed or self employed EEA nationals, who have become subject to Irish PRSI since coming to Ireland, and their entitlement continues if they become unemployed and receive Irish Unemployment Benefit.

    But if an EEA national comes to Ireland, and never works, they would be subject to Habitual Residence Condition. Also, if you lose your job, and don't claim benefits it seems you may lose this entitlement.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 955 ✭✭✭LovelyHurling


    But surely all child benefit recipients are subject to habitual residence conditions - just like most social welfare claims.

    So can someone clarify whether or not Irish people (Irish citizens) are obligated to prove their ongoing residence in Ireland on a thrice-yearly basis?

    The welfare link posted earlier doesn't really clarify this, as Irish people are 'EU citizens' just like people from 26 other member states.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,624 ✭✭✭wmpdd3


    Right I was talking to some in payroll, about 50 employees where I work were not born in Ireland and have children.

    Most have had to fill out these form atleast once a year. One girl didnt, she's married to an irish guy and both she and her baby have his sirname.

    One girl is from Africa, she has had the form every 4 months since her two kids were born.

    3 girl used to work with me, but now dont work, their husbands work. They have not had to fill in the forms since they left work.

    One friend of mine is marries to a german guy and has never had to fill out the forms.

    Dont know what any of the is can really tell you but I have still to find an Irish born person who has had to fill out the forms.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 955 ✭✭✭LovelyHurling


    How is child benefit paid, through the post office?

    Surely a more hassle free method from the point of view of the SWO could simply be to put a short expiry on post office transfers, and thereafter to monitor post office collections?

    I mean that's what happens with JSA, so why not Child Benefit too?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    How is child benefit paid, through the post office?

    Surely a more hassle free method from the point of view of the SWO could simply be to put a short expiry on post office transfers, and thereafter to monitor post office collections?

    I mean that's what happens with JSA, so why not Child Benefit too?

    most child benefit claimants are paid into bank accounts. Child benefit and JSA are simply not comparable at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭Agent_99


    wmpdd3 wrote: »

    Dont know what any of the is can really tell you but I have still to find an Irish born person who has had to fill out the forms.

    I am Irish Born married to Irish Man, 2 Irish Kids and have had to fill in the form a least once a year for the last few years. Our surname is the second most common in Ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 355 ✭✭hootietootie


    As I said earlier, they have told me that everyone will have to fill these out. I am Irish, my partner is Irish, my money is not paid into the bank, I collect the week it comes out.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 955 ✭✭✭LovelyHurling


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    most child benefit claimants are paid into bank accounts. Child benefit and JSA are simply not comparable at all.
    Nobody said they were comparable in a general sense - where they are comparable, though, is in the sense that one must be resident in the state to continue claiming these sorts of transfer payments.

    And one way the the DSP ensure that JSA claimants remain resident is for a short expiry condition on welfare transfers via the post office. If you don't pick it up within about 6 days, it's gone (unless you can explain later why you missed the payment).

    Why not just cut the paperwork & do the same for Child Benefit? get rid of bank transfers altogether.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    MAybe it's everyone that gets paid by bank transfer then? I know we do.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,088 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    I have a Latvian friend. She gets these letters too. Her replies used to 'go missing', so she registers everything now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,624 ✭✭✭wmpdd3


    I would have no problem collecting it in the post-office, it would keep many of them open and viable. But if you work full time, you'd only have a 4 hr window per week to collect it. As long as they left it in the post office for 3 weeks (in case you go on holiday), it might be OK.


  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Actually the last two times there was no envelope. :-(

    Yes, but the form said "This slip must be completed within 21 days and returned in an envelope to the above address. Please write FREEPOST on the envelope and no postage stamp will be required (Republic of Ireland Only)....."
    spurious wrote: »
    I have a Latvian friend. She gets these letters too. Her replies used to 'go missing', so she registers everything now.
    (

    I will be posting back a form today, and I will have to do this also because of problems the last time. I would be worried that it would get lost in their office, and they might blame us or An Post.

    .

    In our case, my wife was born abroad, and had nationality of her home country when our child was born in Ireland. However she was already an Irish citizen by the time these letters started arriving a few years ago, and put "Irish" on the first and all other forms.

    On the latest form she wrote "same as last time" for nationality, phone number and school details, but they returned it, saying "you failed to complete the form properly".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 955 ✭✭✭LovelyHurling


    wmpdd3 wrote: »
    I would have no problem collecting it in the post-office, it would keep many of them open and viable. But if you work full time, you'd only have a 4 hr window per week to collect it.
    Many post offices open Saturdays and open beyond regular office opening hours. Most do not close for lunch.
    As long as they left it in the post office for 3 weeks (in case you go on holiday), it might be OK.
    That would defeat the purpose. In that case, it could be worth a fraudulent recipient's time in spending one week in Ireland every 2 months to pick up 2 transfer payments at the post office.

    It should work like the JSA/JSB: if you won't be in the country, inform the Department of Social Protection. There's no reason why parents of children should feel any more a sense of entitlement to this payment than jobseekers to theirs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,624 ✭✭✭wmpdd3


    Many post offices open Saturdays and open beyond regular office opening hours. Most do not close for lunch.

    That would defeat the purpose. In that case, it could be worth a fraudulent recipient's time in spending one week in Ireland every 2 months to pick up 2 transfer payments at the post office.

    It should work like the JSA/JSB: if you won't be in the country, inform the Department of Social Protection. There's no reason why parents of children should feel any more a sense of entitlement to this payment than jobseekers to theirs.

    Yeah, the main one in town is open from 9-1 on a Saturday, but you could have thousands of clients trying to get in, in those 4 hours. I suppose if the post offices were paid a small sum to pay out the payment it may be worth their while to open all day Saturday.

    I was thinking of familys going on holidays and missing the week the payment would be available, but yeah an online holiday booking form to cover that month would work and not tie too much payroll.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭angelfire9


    I'm Irish as is my hubby
    His surname would be one of the top 10 Irish surnames
    My surname is spanish from about 20 generations back :D
    I get these forms at least once a year it used to be more frequent

    Had a social welfare inspector call about 2 years ago to confirm that I was still in the country (about a month after I lost my job)
    Because I don't look "Typically" irish he started out by stating "My name is Joe Soap from the local social welfare office just checking up on the status of the child benefit claim registered to this address, is your name "*** ****" ?

    To which I replied "Sea, cad ba mhaith leat?

    Oh says he, you speak irish?

    "Sea, cinnte, rugadh agus tógadh me in Inis"

    End of questions! :D:D:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,624 ✭✭✭wmpdd3


    Well,I spoke too soon.

    Today, I got one of these letters, I have 21 days to post it back.

    Its a bit different to the ones they were sending out last year. I had to state my nationality; Irish and I have to give the name of the creche my 1 year old goes to and the Doctor for my 4 week old.

    I dont have to give any documentation..yet, just the names.

    Last year my friends got letters that had to be signed by their employer to prove they were still in the country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43 wotaccent


    It's ridiculous that in this day and age they still have to send out letters, and especially asking for your employer to sign. We should be at the stage where the relevant government departments are linked up. I get a CB letter like the one you received every few weeks, usually with only a few days to spare. I never, ever receive one before at least 10 days of the 21 are already up.


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