Irish Theatre scene at the moment

pog it · 22-06-2011 11:23am #1

Hey all,

After watching Fintan O'Toole's Power Plays documentary it reminded me how it's been at least 3 years since I went to see a play. I do read plays though so I think it must be down to the price which I perceive to be €25 on average (no longer a student). It's value for money, but it is a barrier.. well at least for me at the moment.

I've just looked up what's going on in the Abbey and the Gate and they seem to be focussing on Friel at the moment.

In general, how vibrant is the theatre scene at the moment? Do the smaller theatres do well and do any get a decent audience on a regular basis?
Who would be the best known for breaking new playwrights? Do playwrights generally find it hard here to break into the scene and get their play shown? There isn't any cronyism is there?

Also I remember reading a letter in the Irish Times from an actor who said it was a closed shop and that the same actors got the work constantly.

Sorry, a lot of questions, but it's just to get an idea of what's going on.

dr gonzo · 26-06-2011 11:42pm

I'd love to know this myself. Probably because its such a tangible element of london culture (where i happen to be presently) that its kinda hit home for me that i should investigate Irish theatre a bit more.

pog it · 27-06-2011 12:41pm

dr gonzo wrote: »

I'd love to know this myself. Probably because its such a tangible element of london culture (where i happen to be presently) that its kinda hit home for me that i should investigate Irish theatre a bit more.

Acually there is a theatre critic in the UK who writes for the Guardian called Micheal Billington and he has the same criticisms to make about theatre in the UK at the moment as Fintan O'Toole has about Irish theatre! He seems to be missing the state of the nation plays that are more about social analysis than these modern takes.

I have to say that in the Power Plays documentary they showed a brief clip from an interview O'Toole did with a young playwright. They didn't show much of it! Have to say that her attitude was abysmal, I have never known of a writer to show less humility. She was shocked that Fintan O'Toole didn't know more about her work and her theatre.. well maybe she should ask herself why? She seemed so convinced of her own views on it and unwilling to consider what O'Toole was saying. It was horrible to watch.

dr gonzo · 27-06-2011 11:36pm

pog it wrote: »

She was shocked that Fintan O'Toole didn't know more about her work and her theatre.. well maybe she should ask herself why? She seemed so convinced of her own views on it and unwilling to consider what O'Toole was saying. It was horrible to watch.

Sounds like a bit of trainwreck alright. It would be extremely interesting to know how the profile of Irish theatre could be improved.

Grace Dyas · 28-06-2011 2:44am

Hi guys,

I am the young playwright in question!

I just wanted to comment and say that I also found that part horrible to watch! The interview we did was for about 90mins and they showed less than 3 minutes of it so as you can imagine it was edited quite severely...

also to clarify (and this was actually what was aired in the documentary) I said that i was challenged that O'Toole didn't know about my work and I certainly didn't say I was shocked... what I meant by challenged was that I have a huge ambition that the kind of theatre I make- that doesn't happen at the abbey and the gate and doesn't have a writer at its centre could become widely known by the general public- we as a company over the last number of years have been trying to do that... you can read more about that here if you're interested. Also the irish theatre scene is small. it would be very hard if you were invested to miss anything that even caused the slightest ripple- and we had just won an award for our piece HEROIN... anyway I was more embarrassed when he said he had actually seen the piece after all!

I was very willing to listen to Fintan's arguement and discussed it at lenght during the interview and on a number of occasions before the interview. I felt that Fintan ignored a huge body of work that addressed exactly what he was looking for over the last ten years- Sara Keating echoes my frustrations quite eloquently here in an article for The Irish Times. As I'm sure you can imagine- i felt a huge frustration with the narrow focus of the documentary- and you'll find they really only talked about plays that happened in the Abbey or The Gate. In my view the work Fintan was looking for was happening predominatly though not exclusively at Project Arts Centre- and like I said in the piece- I was seeing it and that's why I make theatre. It was definately happening.

If you're still interested in finding out more about the scene- i suggest you check out www.projectartscentre.ie, or entertainment.ie theatre section does a really wide variety of reviews and features, also irish theatre magazine will provide very interesting critical analysis + a good grasp on the politcal questions the sector are currently facing.

glad the documentary sparked or rekindled your interest anyway.

small mercies.

Grace Dyas

Grace Dyas · 28-06-2011 3:00am

you may be interested in Peter Crawley's response here

pog it · 28-06-2011 4:50pm

I feel like a bit like the big bad wolf now! Maybe the editors of the documentary have done you a kind of injustice in that case Grace.. I'm more than happy to take your word for it.
Did you ever see one of the Frontline programmes where Fintan O'Toole was interviewed along with a FF TD, Thomas something, who made a childish put down of Fintan which got a sort of applause from the audience? I think I'm still feeling bad for Fintan in a way, I was really disappointed in the audience for buying it.. anyway I think I must have carried that with me when I watched Power Plays.

Anyway best of luck with your work , I'll definitely check out out the Project Arts Centre in the near future

Dublin_Girl92 · 28-07-2011 3:54pm

Just felt like jumping into this conversation. Grace I'd say you felt pretty victimized watching that clip if you had done a 90 minute interview!! Just to say I think what you said was absolutely great and spoke on behalf of thousands of people in Ireland. That documentary was very narrow minded and it's obvious that Fintan is not looking in the right places for more abstract theatre.
I say seriously fair play to you for speaking the truth!
F.

Pintoplain · 19-03-2012 9:37am

There's a peculiar discrepancy between Fintan's theatre criticism and his political commentary. Politically, he quite rightly favours a global perspective, and has little time for the parochial. In theatre though, god help any play that doesn't directly address the current state of the nation.
But that documentary was hilarious. So many shots of him looking wistful and wise against various Dublin backdrops, while his voiceover bemoaned the failure of Irish theatre to live up to his standards.

pog it · 19-03-2012 9:32pm

Pintoplain wrote: »

There's a peculiar discrepancy between Fintan's theatre criticism and his political commentary. Politically, he quite rightly favours a global perspective, and has little time for the parochial. In theatre though, god help any play that doesn't directly address the current state of the nation.
But that documentary was hilarious. So many shots of him looking wistful and wise against various Dublin backdrops, while his voiceover bemoaned the failure of Irish theatre to live up to his standards.

Irish theatre is failing us. There isn't one play I want to go to see in the theatre right now. I saw 'Love all' in Bewley's Cafe recently which was terrific but it wasn't a full on play, it had just two actors doing a range of characters and lasted just an hour. Da is still on at the Gate and Bookworms in the Abbey.. neither of which attract me. At this stage I'm just waiting for a new Marina Carr play.

Pintoplain · 20-03-2012 7:52am

You may be looking in the wrong places. Recent plays by Anu Productions, Pan Pan, Rough Magic, Brokentalkers and Thisispopbaby have all been ground-breaking, exciting, and thought-provoking even if they didn't conform to Fintan O'Toole's narrow, prescriptive template.

pog it · 20-03-2012 9:58am

No. I've been to a lot of plays since last summer when I started this thread and I'm not into the 'productions' that are trying to pass off as plays.

Fintan O'Toole isn't alone in his views. The Irish Times review ahead of the Irish theatre awards said there was a lot of mediocrity in Irish theatre and other reviewers have said as much as well. Isolating Fintan O'Toole just because he made a documentary about it isn't fair.

Pintoplain · 20-03-2012 4:40pm

I remember that piece in the Irish Times - it erroneously described the Druid and Rough Magic plays as revivals. Who's isolating Fintan O'Toole? Wasn't this thread about his documentary?

pog it · 20-03-2012 5:10pm

Everybody critical of Fintan O'Toole here failed to mention that he isn't the only critic to be disillusioned with Irish theatre at the moment. He just happened to be the one to make the documentary about it and it's clear he had good motives in doing so.

And no, the thread wasn't about the documentary alone. I started it last summer to discover more about what was going on in Irish theatre.

Pintoplain · 20-03-2012 5:54pm

Sorry, are critics above criticism? I would guess that Fintan's main reason for presenting the documentary was to promote Fintan, and if anyone involved in actually making theatre had produced such a blatantly solipsistic and self-regarding piece, they'd be rightly pilloried for being a luvvie.
Irish cultural commentators have many, varied, and contradictory opinions. My point about Fintan O'Toole in particular, is that, while his politics are admirably progressive and outward looking, his taste in theatre is conservative and insular. I would of course take his side against a FF yahoo, but when a very well-paid journalist takes pot-shots, for profit, at artists trying to make a living in a precarious business, I find it hard to cheer him on.

pog it · 20-03-2012 6:15pm

I don't think his main reason was to promote himself. He is asking questions that need to be asked and I'm guessing that by doing it he hoped to encourage writers and those involved in producing plays to come up with some state of the nation works.

Pintoplain · 21-03-2012 10:38am

Fair enough. But remember, FO'T's shining example, his yardstick for state-of-the-nation plays, was Sean O'Casey. O'Casey was a phenomenal playwright but I hardly need to point out that The Plough and the Stars, for instance, didn't reach the stage until 1926, a full decade after the events it depicted. Hardly The Frontline is it?
Theatre isn't the ideal medium for current events. Hopefully it's much more than that. Using The Plough and the Stars as a benchmark, the definitive Celtic Tiger play should be coming out in a couple of years, if anyone's still interested.
Of course there's a place for state-of-the-nation plays, but my problem with Fintan is that he'll often overstep his brief as a critic, and diss a play not on the basis of its artistry or competency, but on the grounds that it doesn't address issues he wants addressed. The solution seems obvious: he should write his own play. Hopefully it'll work out better than his attempt at entering politics.

pog it · 21-03-2012 1:29pm

His attempt at entering politics? Do you mean his non-attempt or did he put himself forward and fail? I remember coming up to the elections people asking him why he didn't run himself, there was even an article in the Indo about himself and Dunphy I think. I would think it's obvious why he wouldn't go forward. People in Ireland don't elect smart and genuine people. Why would Fintan bother? I hope he didn't or doesn't ever put himself through the grief.

Well, I take your point about theatre not being the best medium for current events, we have Vincent Browne after all. But actually there is a lot that can't be said on national tv and a lot going on under the skin and it is that which we need to start seeing on the stage.

By the way I did submit a harrowing little play to the Fishamble competition. I didn't get selected but I did at least try.

victorfeldman · 16-01-2015 12:09am

Pintoplain wrote: »

Sorry, are critics above criticism? I would guess that Fintan's main reason for presenting the documentary was to promote Fintan, and if anyone involved in actually making theatre had produced such a blatantly solipsistic and self-regarding piece, they'd be rightly pilloried for being a luvvie.
Irish cultural commentators have many, varied, and contradictory opinions. My point about Fintan O'Toole in particular, is that, while his politics are admirably progressive and outward looking, his taste in theatre is conservative and insular. I would of course take his side against a FF yahoo, but when a very well-paid journalist takes pot-shots, for profit, at artists trying to make a living in a precarious business, I find it hard to cheer him on.

to put irish theatre into perspective take note of the three uk experts commissioned by the arts council to access the ABBEY theatre's output..they found that 4 of 12 plays were below professional standard and 4 just okay...and 2 good....you only had to go see WUTHERING HIGHTS at the GATE to see the experts perspective....theres a world of difference in standards between here and the uk......so come on lets get real!!!!!

Lemallon · 17-01-2015 12:48pm

And what was your opinion on Wuthering Heights ???

Irish Theatre scene at the moment

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