Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Grandeeod · 02-01-2016 9:19pm

eastwest wrote: »

That was different though; that was the rail lobby that was based on reality.

Indeed it was. Its amazing that people talking crap and politicians who don't care, can still hold their heads up over this fiasco, considering a bunch of volunteers called it right nearly 12 years ago. The mind boggles.

eastwest · 02-01-2016 9:42pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

Indeed it was. Its amazing that people talking crap and politicians who don't care, can still hold their heads up over this fiasco, considering a bunch of volunteers called it right nearly 12 years ago. The mind boggles.

In the north west, this has gone way beyond being a pro-rail lobbying exercise. I heard a story over Christmas about a recent presentation to Sligo county council by the wot organisation. They were apparently proposing the extension of a velorail project from kiltimagh to collooney, an idea do daft that it is clearly now all about just stopping the greenway project.
The suggestion apparently caused more than a few raised eyebrows in the council chamber, where some councillors are openly saying that the 'pro rail' lobby is now all about stopping the greenway.
Is it the case that wot now sees that there will never be a railway in Sligo, but that they are determined that nobody else will get their hands on the asset either?

Grandeeod · 02-01-2016 10:28pm

eastwest wrote: »

In the north west, this has gone way beyond being a pro-rail lobbying exercise. I heard a story over Christmas about a recent presentation to Sligo county council by the wot organisation. They were apparently proposing the extension of a velorail project from kiltimagh to collooney, an idea do daft that it is clearly now all about just stopping the greenway project.
The suggestion apparently caused more than a few raised eyebrows in the council chamber, where some councillors are openly saying that the 'pro rail' lobby is now all about stopping the greenway.
Is it the case that wot now sees that there will never be a railway in Sligo, but that they are determined that nobody else will get their hands on the asset either?

The very fact that the track was left in situ, albeit useless now, is the proof that WOT and their merry band of supporters stand behind symbolism and nothing more concrete than that. Its sad that the Platform 11 gang were right all those years ago, yet the BS goes on. The only saving grace is that the state appears to realise that Platform 11 were right. All we are left with in this debate is a continuous row with sideliners, hardliners and a rapidly declining WOT. The only threat now is to a greenway, but that's merely petty sour grapes from a beaten force.

Del.Monte · 02-01-2016 10:44pm

Whatever happened to that Derek Wheeler fella. I heard he was run out of the country by priests and trainspotters...:D

Grandeeod · 02-01-2016 10:54pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Whatever happened to that Derek Wheeler fella. I heard he was run out of the country by priests and trainspotters...:D

Apparently he was.

eastwest · 02-01-2016 11:22pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

The very fact that the track was left in situ, albeit useless now, is the proof that WOT and their merry band of supporters stand behind symbolism and nothing more concrete than that. Its sad that the Platform 11 gang were right all those years ago, yet the BS goes on. The only saving grace is that the state appears to realise that Platform 11 were right. All we are left with in this debate is a continuous row with sideliners, hardliners and a rapidly declining WOT. The only threat now is to a greenway, but that's merely petty sour grapes from a beaten force.

Wot have adopted a fallback position; it's all about freight now, with Claremorris (where most of them apparently live) going to be the centre of a major freight operation that sees all road freight in the west moved on to the wrc, resulting in an extra train every day, apparently.
Unfortunately for them, their report that they were crowing about all Summer turned out to be all about nothing, but freight is still the mantra.
So, given that they have pretty much conceded that the wrc will stop at Claremorris, you'd have to wonder at their puerile antics in Sligo in December. The popular theory about this is that they don't want the sligo greenway built, not because they expect a railway on that stretch, but because they reckon that if Sligo gets a greenway on the line, mayo and Galway will really start screaming for it too, something that their handful of blocking councillors won't be able to stop.

westtip · 05-01-2016 11:58pm

How many times in the five years it has been open has the WRC from Ennis to Athenry been flooded. Hasn't the time now come to designate the route as flood plain and close it down?

westtip · 08-01-2016 12:52am

As often said you get what you pay for

Weather Watch: Flood update

Bus transfers in operation between Limerick/Galway, Longford/Carrick-on-Shannon & Gorey/Rosslare due to flooding.

http://www.irishrail.ie/

The real point about the seemingly annual flooding of the "new" Western Rail corridor phase one route from Ennis to Athenry is that it is only five years old, the local advocates of this line re-opening must have seen this line flooding at least every other year when it was the old rusting closed railway, and yet they campaigned for it to be re-opened. Why was it ever allowed to happen, why didn't somebody shout stop, that line floods every second year at least, Why was 105 million spent on something that was doomed to fail, not just because of all the usual arguments but the fact it must have been known that this route floods at least every second year.

Why did no one raise this red flag? The whole point about re-opening the Western Rail Corridor is that it follows the closed rail route set down in the C19th. I have often been labelled as anti rail, actually I'm not, I just don't want to see waste. The road lobby would never have accepted simply widening the old roads as a solution to our inter-urban road improvements. So why on earth hasn't West on Track said we want a railway but we want a modern railway, for examply on the Limerick Athenry route that included a route that took in Shannon Airport and actually cut out Athenry all together and went direct to Galway . Ask for crap and you will be served crap. This is the great fault of the railway campaigners, complete lack of vision. Go campaign for a modern railway service and let the rotting 19th century infrastructure be used for something the 21st century needs to see, good quality tourism infrastructure. This is why WOT have actually failed to satisfy the real needs of the west.

dowlingm · 08-01-2016 4:37am

If there was a stretch of main road that was cut off as frequently as Ennis-Athenry after being newly built/rebuilt heads would roll. But it's only the train so...

eastwest · 08-01-2016 2:00pm

dowlingm wrote: »

If there was a stretch of main road that was cut off as frequently as Ennis-Athenry after being newly built/rebuilt heads would roll. But it's only the train so...

Only a train that can be replaced by a small bus most of the time. Not a priority for Irish rail or anyone else I'd say.
Given the firm commitments by several transport ministers not to extend the WRC north of Athenry, I can't see any of them voting to fund the necessary work to raise this line above the flood levels either.

westtip · 10-01-2016 6:09pm

Has anyone used the service since the floods came into place, what has it done to travel times and is it worth it when you can get on a bus that does the journey in less time than the scheduled rail service in any event.

Losty Dublin · 10-01-2016 7:06pm

westtip wrote: »

As often said you get what you pay for

http://www.irishrail.ie/

The real point about the seemingly annual flooding of the "new" Western Rail corridor phase one route from Ennis to Athenry is that it is only five years old,

Something to correct here. The Ennis-Limerick has been in passenger use for a good 20 years. The recent issues relating to flooding stem from a blockage in a small river that feeds into an underground lake in Ballycar. While the area has always been prone to flooring, the blockage has worsened matters considerably.

The OPW consistently refuses to deal with the issue, with the end result being consistent flooding in the area on a regular basis. Irish Rail have raised the track three times in the recent past; it's helped things but the fact remains that the flooding itself is out of their control as is any relief work on the river and lake.

westtip · 10-01-2016 7:16pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Something to correct here. The Ennis-Limerick has been in passenger use for a good 20 years. The recent issues relating to flooding stem from a blockage in a small river that feeds into an underground lake in Ballycar. While the area has always been prone to flooring, the blockage has worsened matters considerably.

The OPW consistently refuses to deal with the issue, with the end result being consistent flooding in the area on a regular basis. Irish Rail have raised the track three times in the recent past; it's helped things but the fact remains that the flooding itself is out of their control as is any relief work on the river and lake.

Indeed, I meant to say the new section from Ennis to Athenry which seems to be flooded every year since it re-opened. Flooding may well be out of Irish Rails control but the simple fact remains the newly opened Ennis Athenry line is constantly flooding.

savagethegoat · 10-01-2016 7:36pm

the bulk of the flooding is on the Ennis to Limerick section usually

elastico · 10-01-2016 8:17pm

westtip wrote: »

Indeed, I meant to say the new section from Ennis to Athenry which seems to be flooded every year since it re-opened. Flooding may well be out of Irish Rails control but the simple fact remains the newly opened Ennis Athenry line is constantly flooding.

I think its unusual for Ennis - Athenry to flood, I think this is the first time its happened since the line reopened.

Ballycar is the problem, the biggest part of the problem being it can remain flooded for months, whereas in a lot of places floods only last a couple of days.

westtip · 12-01-2016 12:41pm

elastico wrote: »

Ballycar is the problem, the biggest part of the problem being it can remain flooded for months, whereas in a lot of places floods only last a couple of days.

Any idea what it is doing to passenger numbers for those taking the through route to Limerick and what is it doing to total time of journey. If you can jump on a bus in either city centre and emerge unscathed and not having had to get on and off trains/buses through your journey my guess is people will be voting with their feet, any anecdotal evidence?

savagethegoat · 12-01-2016 1:34pm

I think that depends on what you are using the train for. Many people would be out for the day and would go elsewhere if there was a bus substitution. It would be a case of a different train being preferred to a bustitution I think

eastwest · 12-01-2016 2:13pm

savagethegoat wrote: »

It would be a case of a different train being preferred to a bustitution I think

I reckon the bus is a good altrainative myself.:D

westtip · 12-01-2016 2:33pm

Press release From: Western Rail Trail Campaign

Date: January 11th 2016: FOR IMMEDIATE USE

Minister states “little or none of the existing tracks and sleepers would be of value”

Department “supportive of the proposal to develop the disused Collooney to Claremorris rail line as a greenway”

Safeguarding the route of the closed railway is the issue, not the scrap rails

Argument about routing a greenway alongside the old tracks is meaningless

Opponents of the Western Rail Trail – a proposed greenway from Athenry in Galway to Collooney in Sligo on a disused rail route – have long argued for the symbolic retention of the decaying tracks, mistakenly considering them essential for future use. Opposition to the removal of the rusting rails has delayed the construction of a greenway, a project that ironically would best preserve the route for possible future rail development. Minister Pascal Donohoe has moved to clarify his Department’s position, and has dismissed the idea that the rotting infrastructure has any significance.

Brendan Quinn of the Western Rail Trail said “We received an email on October 14th last year from the Minister in which he stated:

“As you know from our meetings, my Department is supportive of the proposal to develop the disused Collooney to Claremorris rail line as a greenway, provided the integrity of the rail line is safeguarded in the event that a decision is made at some point in the future to reopen it as a functioning rail link.” (Minister Paschal Donohoe email to Brendan Quinn on 14th October 2015)”

Aware that Irish Rail is only interested in the scrap value of the old rails, Quinn sought further clarification, asking whether the Minister was referring to the integrity of the rail tracks or the rail route. This is an important distinction; the rail route can best be protected by the construction of a greenway, whereas the symbolic retention of the scrap metal rails seems irrelevant. The Minister clarified the position this week in a follow-up letter to the greenway campaigners, coming down firmly in support of the greenway as a method of keeping the asset in public ownership until such time as a railway may be possible.

“I refer further to your letter seeking clarification on what was meant by me in previous correspondence when referring to the safeguarding of the integrity of the rail line in the event of the Collooney to Claremorris route being opened as a greenway. I think it can be accepted that little or none of the existing tracks and sleepers would be of value should the route be reinstated as a functioning rail line at some stage in the future and that I was, as you correctly interpret, referring to the safeguarding of the route of the closed railway.” (Minister Paschal Donohoe email to Brendan Quinn on 11th January 2016).

The Minister’s statement dismisses any argument for the retention in situ of scrap rails that are incapable of carrying rail traffic. Safeguarding the route in public ownership is the key issue for the Department of Transport if a railway is ever to be restored in the future, and the Department and Irish Rail have made it clear that a greenway on the route is the best way of achieving this. It is important now for Sligo, Mayo and Galway county councils to embrace what all the key stakeholders are saying and to grasp the opportunity to protect the route with a greenway.

Both emails are attached to this press release.

ENDS Words: body content 500 words Contacts: Brendan Quinn 087 4198193 Find us on Facebook: sligomayogreenwaycampaign email brenquinn@eircom.net

Picture Caption: “little or none of the existing tracks and sleepers would be of value” Minister Paschal Donohoe 11th January 2016
Below: Photo of closed railway near Kiltimagh county Mayo: See attached photo to this post.

Email received from Minister Paschal Donohoe on October 14th 2015:
Our Ref: PD/15/10049

Dear Brendan

Thank you for your letter and attachment from the letters page of the Irish Times regarding the decline of rural Ireland.

As you know from our meetings, my Department is supportive of the proposal to develop the disused Collooney to Claremorris rail line as a greenway, provided the integrity of the rail line is safeguarded in the event that a decision is made at some point in the future to reopen it as a functioning rail link. However, I must reiterate that while my Department is supportive of this proposal, it is ultimately a matter for interested parties to work with the relevant local authority to progress and submit, if funding is required, a proposal for consideration to this Department.
In the meantime, I would like to wish you well with you continued efforts to progress this project.

With best wishes,

Minister Paschal Donohoe

Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport

After seeking clarification on the phrase used by the Minister “the integrity of the rail line” the email below was sent to Brendan Quinn on 11th January 2016-01-11

From: minister@dttas.ie [mailto:minister@dttas.ie] Sent: 11 January 2016 12:19
Our Ref: PD/15/10987

Dear Brendan

I refer further to your letter seeking clarification on what was meant by me in previous correspondence when referring to the safeguarding of the integrity of the rail line in the event of the Collooney to Claremorris route being opened as a greenway. I think it can be accepted that little or none of the existing tracks and sleepers would be of value should the route be reinstated as a functioning rail line at some stage in the future and that I was, as you correctly interpret, referring to the safeguarding of the route of the closed railway.

With best wishes,

Minister Paschal Donohoe
Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport

eastwest · 12-01-2016 5:15pm

westtip wrote: »

Press release From: Western Rail Trail Campaign

Date: January 11th 2016: FOR IMMEDIATE USE

Minister states “little or none of the existing tracks and sleepers would be of value”

Department “supportive of the proposal to develop the disused Collooney to Claremorris rail line as a greenway”

Safeguarding the route of the closed railway is the issue, not the scrap rails

Argument about routing a greenway alongside the old tracks is meaningless

Opponents of the Western Rail Trail – a proposed greenway from Athenry in Galway to Collooney in Sligo on a disused rail route – have long argued for the symbolic retention of the decaying tracks, mistakenly considering them essential for future use. Opposition to the removal of the rusting rails has delayed the construction of a greenway, a project that ironically would best preserve the route for possible future rail development. Minister Pascal Donohoe has moved to clarify his Department’s position, and has dismissed the idea that the rotting infrastructure has any significance.

Brendan Quinn of the Western Rail Trail said “We received an email on October 14th last year from the Minister in which he stated:

“As you know from our meetings, my Department is supportive of the proposal to develop the disused Collooney to Claremorris rail line as a greenway, provided the integrity of the rail line is safeguarded in the event that a decision is made at some point in the future to reopen it as a functioning rail link.” (Minister Paschal Donohoe email to Brendan Quinn on 14th October 2015)”

Aware that Irish Rail is only interested in the scrap value of the old rails, Quinn sought further clarification, asking whether the Minister was referring to the integrity of the rail tracks or the rail route. This is an important distinction; the rail route can best be protected by the construction of a greenway, whereas the symbolic retention of the scrap metal rails seems irrelevant. The Minister clarified the position this week in a follow-up letter to the greenway campaigners, coming down firmly in support of the greenway as a method of keeping the asset in public ownership until such time as a railway may be possible.

“I refer further to your letter seeking clarification on what was meant by me in previous correspondence when referring to the safeguarding of the integrity of the rail line in the event of the Collooney to Claremorris route being opened as a greenway. I think it can be accepted that little or none of the existing tracks and sleepers would be of value should the route be reinstated as a functioning rail line at some stage in the future and that I was, as you correctly interpret, referring to the safeguarding of the route of the closed railway.” (Minister Paschal Donohoe email to Brendan Quinn on 11th January 2016).

The Minister’s statement dismisses any argument for the retention in situ of scrap rails that are incapable of carrying rail traffic. Safeguarding the route in public ownership is the key issue for the Department of Transport if a railway is ever to be restored in the future, and the Department and Irish Rail have made it clear that a greenway on the route is the best way of achieving this. It is important now for Sligo, Mayo and Galway county councils to embrace what all the key stakeholders are saying and to grasp the opportunity to protect the route with a greenway.

Both emails are attached to this press release.

ENDS Words: body content 500 words Contacts: Brendan Quinn 087 4198193 Find us on Facebook: sligomayogreenwaycampaign email brenquinn@eircom.net

Picture Caption: “little or none of the existing tracks and sleepers would be of value” Minister Paschal Donohoe 11th January 2016
Below: Photo of closed railway near Kiltimagh county Mayo: See attached photo to this post.

Email received from Minister Paschal Donohoe on October 14th 2015:
Our Ref: PD/15/10049

Dear Brendan

Thank you for your letter and attachment from the letters page of the Irish Times regarding the decline of rural Ireland.

As you know from our meetings, my Department is supportive of the proposal to develop the disused Collooney to Claremorris rail line as a greenway, provided the integrity of the rail line is safeguarded in the event that a decision is made at some point in the future to reopen it as a functioning rail link. However, I must reiterate that while my Department is supportive of this proposal, it is ultimately a matter for interested parties to work with the relevant local authority to progress and submit, if funding is required, a proposal for consideration to this Department.
In the meantime, I would like to wish you well with you continued efforts to progress this project.

With best wishes,

Minister Paschal Donohoe

Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport

After seeking clarification on the phrase used by the Minister “the integrity of the rail line” the email below was sent to Brendan Quinn on 11th January 2016-01-11

From: minister@dttas.ie [mailto:minister@dttas.ie] Sent: 11 January 2016 12:19
Our Ref: PD/15/10987

Dear Brendan

I refer further to your letter seeking clarification on what was meant by me in previous correspondence when referring to the safeguarding of the integrity of the rail line in the event of the Collooney to Claremorris route being opened as a greenway. I think it can be accepted that little or none of the existing tracks and sleepers would be of value should the route be reinstated as a functioning rail line at some stage in the future and that I was, as you correctly interpret, referring to the safeguarding of the route of the closed railway.

With best wishes,

Minister Paschal Donohoe
Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport

He can't make it much clearer than that, but the diehards will see it differently.

elastico · 13-01-2016 10:16am

westtip wrote: »

Any idea what it is doing to passenger numbers for those taking the through route to Limerick and what is it doing to total time of journey. If you can jump on a bus in either city centre and emerge unscathed and not having had to get on and off trains/buses through your journey my guess is people will be voting with their feet, any anecdotal evidence?

Sorry I don't know what its doing to passenger numbers, but I had a look and the regular train is timetabled at 39 minutes and the shortest bus is timetabled 1 hour with a lot of painful stops.

I assume the bus replacing the train goes non stop Ennis station - Limerick station in around the 40 minutes.

Muckyboots · 21-01-2016 2:26pm

Cllr Sean Canney, WOT supporter, is canvassing around Tuam now. When he is being challenged about his stance on the Greenway, apart from blabbering out the usual Limerick/Ennis stats, he is saying - " Did you not see? We got the line is cleared. There is an imminent announcement coming about freight."
If it is true that Irish Rail cleared the line, of shrubs and trees, just at the behest of an election candidate, so that he could falsely promise developments on the line, then it smacks of the worst kind of cronyism, parish pump, golden circle politics and semi-state collusion you could conspire to create. Couldn't be true . Could it? Coincidence surely that this clearing work was completed just weeks before the election is called??

bagels · 22-01-2016 11:39am

Muckyboots wrote: »

Cllr Sean Canney, WOT supporter, is canvassing around Tuam now. When he is being challenged about his stance on the Greenway, apart from blabbering out the usual Limerick/Ennis stats, he is saying - " Did you not see? We got the line is cleared. There is an imminent announcement coming about freight."
If it is true that Irish Rail cleared the line, of shrubs and trees, just at the behest of an election candidate, so that he could falsely promise developments on the line, then it smacks of the worst kind of cronyism, parish pump, golden circle politics and semi-state collusion you could conspire to create. Couldn't be true . Could it? Coincidence surely that this clearing work was completed just weeks before the election is called??

Voters should ask him about his false SIPO Declaration. I bet that'd stop him in his tracks, no pun intended.
Link:
https://www.facebook.com/ThomasTpNiland/posts/10205302413779461

end of the road · 22-01-2016 3:57pm

maybe the clearing is simply asserting rights over the line?

Muckyboots · 22-01-2016 7:43pm

end of the road wrote: »

maybe the clearing is simply asserting rights over the line?

I'd give them, CIE Property, the benefit of the doubt on that one but that makes Cllr Canney an opportunistic spinner and a spoofer.

mayo.mick · 22-01-2016 10:46pm

Has John O'Mahoney been a secret Greenway supporter all along I wonder? Since moving constituencies he now seems to be very supportive of greenways and cycle lanes, in Galway!

http://www.johnomahony.ie/?p=2699

Grandeeod · 22-01-2016 10:48pm

Wasn't there talk last year about sending a train up the line to "clear" it, when in all reality, most of us knew it wouldn't be a train, just general mech to clear the overgrowth?

23-01-2016 6:08am

Grandeeod wrote: »

Wasn't there talk last year about sending a train up the line to "clear" it, when in all reality, most of us knew it wouldn't be a train, just general mech to clear the overgrowth?

It's not capable of taking a train safely

end of the road · 23-01-2016 2:41pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not capable of taking a train safely

we know that, however grandeeod is right about the various talks of sending a train down it last year. where that nonsense idea came from i'm still not sure.

Muckyboots · 23-01-2016 9:10pm

end of the road wrote: »

we know that, however grandeeod is right about the various talks of sending a train down it last year. where that nonsense idea came from i'm still not sure.

wot nonsense ?

Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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