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A Gaeltacht in Dublin?

  • 27-02-2012 7:41pm
    #1
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭


    The Government are planing on introducing a 'Gaeltacht Bill' Later this year to give statutry effect to the 20 year strategy for the Irish Language. Under the bill, Areas outside of the traditional Gaeltacht could recieve Gaeltacht status.

    Minister welcomes Government decision regarding Gaeltacht Bill

    Under the legislation, it is proposed that the Gaeltacht will in future be based on linguistic criteria instead of on geographic areas which has been the position to date. Language planning at community level will be central to the new definition of the Gaeltacht. Areas outside the traditional Gaeltacht areas may be recognised as Gaeltacht areas, subject to fulfilling particular criteria.

    Already people in some areas outside the Gaeltacht are thinking of benefits that gaining Gaeltacht status for their own area could bring.


    Clondalkin Could be Dublins First Official Gaeltacht
    .
    Joe MacSuibhne has been principal of the local Irish-speaking secondary school Coláiste Chillian for the past eight years and strongly supports the idea of designating Clondalkin as a Gaeltacht area.
    “We have been looking for something like this for years. Currently, there are about 1,500 students receiving their education through Irish in the area and are, therefore, fluent in the language,” he told TheJournal.ie this morning.


    ''The benefits of being designated as a Gaeltacht area would greatly help here,” continued MacSuibhne. “I think it would help us in the promotion of the language in the school, as well as the town.”
    “There are endless possibilities for the area if it is given the recognition for the number of Irish speakers here,” added MacSuibhne who has been teaching in Clondalkin for more than 20 years.
    Even simple ideas around language development could create employment for students when they graduate, according to MacSuibhne


    What would you make of it if someone proposed turning where you live into a Gaeltacht?


«134567…10

Comments

  • #2
    laoch na mona
    Registered Users Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    buíochas le dia its about time new gaeltachts were created
    tir gan teanga tir gan anam


  • #3
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    As long as there's no scam to guilt trip more money out of the gov to "preserve " the language .... Although, you'd prob here more people ag caint outside Dublin Gael scoilanna that you'd hear in Ring or coolea, / ballievourney.

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #4
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    laoch na mona wrote: »
    buíochas le dia its about time new gaeltachts were created
    tir gan teanga tir gan anam


    Indeed, however, I think the state should be quite stringent about the requirements for gaining Gaeltacht status. There may be a lot of Irish speakers in Dublin, but the % in a given area would still be a long way off a 'C' class Gaeltacht.

    Perhaps a scale could be put in place with the national average being the base, and greater recognition the higher up you go?


  • #5
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    Markcheese wrote: »
    As long as there's no scam to guilt trip more money out of the gov to "preserve " the language .... Although, you'd prob here more people ag caint outside Dublin Gael scoilanna that you'd hear in Ring or coolea, / ballievourney.


    Well to get it, you would have to convince a fairly large segment of the poplulation in a given area to speak Irish, that would be one hell of a big con, if the money is all they're after there are easier ways to get it.


  • #6
    laoch na mona
    Registered Users Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    its very apt considering the g team competition and other gloir na gael projects at the moment


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  • #7
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    I think it's a great idea. Really. If irish is to have any hope at all it must be moved in emphasis from the rural back waters in the west to the metropolitan areas in the east.


  • #8
    Pacifist Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Pacifist Pigeon


    But where in Dublin would you put a Gaeltacht?


  • #9
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    Pacifist Pigeon wrote: »
    But where in Dublin would you put a Gaeltacht?


    Well theres Clondalkin as mentioned in the artical, or Ballymun around the Irish speaking Housing Estate they will be building this year.

    Outside of Dublin, Part of Galway City is already in the Gaeltacht, this could possibly be expanded.

    Belfast(Not covered by the Bill obviously) already has a Gaeltacht Quarter.

    Other than that, there are a few towns around the country that would be in a fiarly strong position to work twords Gaeltacht status of some sort, Carlow and Loughrae for example.


  • #10
    mikemac1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Pacifist Pigeon wrote: »
    But where in Dublin would you put a Gaeltacht?

    I used to rent in Drumcondra. It's partly flatland but also it has quite an elderly population

    A few locals would often come up and greet me in Irish leaving me struggling for the cúpla focail.
    Was told there are quite a few Irish speakers in the area but it's mainly the elderly locals

    One of the largest gaelscoils in the country is in Ballymun and lots of young people out there, it's another option

    Or you can find a townland up in the North county and link and twin it somehow with the place in Meath


  • #11
    Kinski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭Kinski


    deise go deo wrote: »
    The Government are planing on introducing a 'Gaeltacht Bill' Later this year to give statutry effect to the 20 year strategy for the Irish Language. Under the bill, Areas outside of the traditional Gaeltacht could recieve Gaeltacht status.

    There's a twenty year strategy? I wonder how it differs from all the other ten/twenty/fifty year strategies. Flogging a dead horse IMO...but, boy, do they flog it!


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  • #12
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    Kinski wrote: »
    There's a twenty year strategy? I wonder how it differs from all the other ten/twenty/fifty year strategies. Flogging a dead horse IMO...but, boy, do they flog it!


    The current 20 year strategy for the Irish language is the first time there has ever been an actual strategy pulling everything together into one plan for developing the language in the state, but don't let facts stop you from posting whatever you like, god knows paper never refused ink.


  • #13
    Nuttzz
    Registered Users Posts: 3,771 ✭✭✭Nuttzz


    Is it still the rule that the place names within a Gaeltacht can only be in Irish?

    If so I cant see how that would work in Clondalkin when you consider the numbers of people who are from overseas that live there to.


  • #14
    spank_inferno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,892 ✭✭✭spank_inferno


    Nuttzz wrote: »
    Is it still the rule that the place names within a Gaeltacht can only be in Irish?

    If so I cant see how that would work in Clondalkin when you consider the numbers of people who are from overseas that live there to.

    True.... I think Clondalkin has approx 100k residents give or take.
    Non-Irish probably outnumber Gaelic speakers considerably.

    I'm pretty sure both the Poles & Chinese outnumber full time Irish speakers too.

    Having said that, its a good way to bring in cash into an area.


  • #15
    Eliot Rosewater
    Registered Users Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    Why will this make a difference to the language? That is, why will being granted Gaeltacht status somehow make it more worthwhile for people to learn Irish?


  • #16
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Nuttzz wrote: »
    Is it still the rule that the place names within a Gaeltacht can only be in Irish?
    This. It's the one thing that would make me fight tooth and nail against my local area becoming a Gaeltacht.


  • #17
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    Eliot Rosewater wrote: »
    Why will this make a difference to the language? That is, why will being granted Gaeltacht status somehow make it more worthwhile for people to learn Irish?
    People would be more comfortable initating conversation as Gaeilge in a Gaeltacht, by virtue of there being (hopefully) a higher chance of of encountering a speaker and it not seeming so "odd", in a Gealtacht people wouldn't be as taken aback by being addressed in the language as they would in other parts of the country.

    The more people speak it the more visible it becomes, and the more visible a language the more people would be willing to learn it, by knowing they will have the opportunity to use it.

    If I am in a shop and the person on the till for example, says slán or go raibh maith agat to the previous customer, I will address that person in Irish when I get to the till.


  • #18
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    People in existing gaeltachts don't seem to speak irish half the time anyway :confused: I remember driving through one of them in particular, stopped in the shop, and the lad didn't understand 2 words of irish, nevermind speak any

    I have no idea why they would want to do this, it sounds like a total artificial thing and a waste of money
    ''The benefits of being designated as a Gaeltacht area would greatly help here,”
    What benefits??


  • #19
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Yay - cultural segregation for the win.

    Are there still laws against English speakers buying in Gaeltacht areas, and grants handed out to those living there and claiming to speak Irish? Also, am I right in thinking that civic amenities (such as humble traffic signs) have to be bi-lingual in all parts of the country, except in Gaeltachts where they are just in Irish?

    Ah... sure make Clondalkin a Gaeltacht - it will save parents having to send their children into the west in the summer (in a bid to teach them enough of the language to get through mandatory state exams in Irish).


  • #20
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    Nuttzz wrote: »
    Is it still the rule that the place names within a Gaeltacht can only be in Irish?

    If so I cant see how that would work in Clondalkin when you consider the numbers of people who are from overseas that live there to.


    A Rose by any other name?

    I don't see why it would cause a problem if it was well flaged in advance.


  • #21
    Kinski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭Kinski


    deise go deo wrote: »
    The current 20 year strategy for the Irish language is the first time there has ever been an actual strategy pulling everything together into one plan for developing the language in the state, but don't let facts stop you from posting whatever you like, god knows paper never refused ink.

    Look, over the years they've introduced it as a compulsory subject in schools, required candidates for the civil service to demonstrate fluency in it, encouraged the development of gaeltachts, established radio and television stations devoted to it...the list goes on. None of it has worked. This plan will be an abject failure too (assuming that the "plan" is to restore Irish as a language spoken by large numbers of people on an everyday basis.)

    I mean, they're talking about designating Clondalkin as a gaeltacht area - that doesn't sound a bit silly to you?


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  • #22
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    deise go deo wrote: »
    Outside of Dublin, Part of Galway City is already in the Gaeltacht, this could possibly be expanded.

    Lol, maybe they should start by actually evaluating how many Irish is actually spoken there.


  • #23
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    Eliot Rosewater wrote: »
    Why will this make a difference to the language? That is, why will being granted Gaeltacht status somehow make it more worthwhile for people to learn Irish?




    I think that if an area is to be granted Gaeltacht status, the local population would have to be consulted and be in favour of it. If they are then the people working to make it happen will find it much easier to organise events by virtue of the fact that those in the local community will be aware of who they are, what they want, and will know that what they want is what the majority of the people in the area want.

    It would provide a much needed focus to promoting the language, as mentioned earlier, have a look at the G team on TG4, people who would otherwise have had no involvement with the language came out to support it as a community project to win a competition, I would expect the same attitude to come out in some areas interested in achieving gaeltacht status for their area.




    As for the benefits of Gaeltacht status when it is achieved, well for it to be achieved a massive amount of work would already have had to be put in, and an Iris speaking community would have to exist in the area, it would also mean that the area would be able to receive supports to develop the language in the area such as a local language development officer to help organise events and services.
    Also, research carried out be a group in Galway City called Gaillimh le Gaeilge has found that business are much more likely to get involved if the language has official status, they were doing a study into the possibility of gaining bilingual status for Galway city, several large business in the local area said that they would get involved with the plan if it was an official policy within the city as they felt that 'belonging' to the local area important to their marketing strategy.
    i.e., if the majority of people in the area said they wanted gaeltacht status, and there was a strong movement in the area to achieve it, the local Tesco’s are much more likely to get involved and hire staff who can speak Irish, put up bilingual signage in store etc. to make it seem like they are taking an active part in the community.


  • #24
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    Kinski wrote: »
    Look, over the years they've introduced it as a compulsory subject in schools, required candidates for the civil service to demonstrate fluency in it, encouraged the development of gaeltachts, established radio and television stations devoted to it...the list goes on. None of it has worked. This plan will be an abject failure too (assuming that the "plan" is to restore Irish as a language spoken by large numbers of people on an everyday basis.)

    I mean, they're talking about designating Clondalkin as a gaeltacht area - that doesn't sound a bit silly to you?

    Yep, they have done many things, never in a joined up way though, as for the Raidio and TV Station, RnaG started out as pirate raidio because there was nothing available in Irish, the TV station came off the back of a campaighn of protests against the government which saw people climbing the RTÉ mast in Dublin, and people going to jail to highlight the lack of anything in Irish on telly. Hardly as a result of the government being proactive.

    The thing is, they are not talking about making anywhere a Gaeltacht, just setting down the criteria an area would have to meet if it wanted to gain gaeltacht status, wether or not Clondalkin gains gaeltacht status will be up to the people living there. Its been suggested that Clondalkin might become a Gaeltacht because of the large number of Irish speakers in the area and the infastructure already in place to support the development of the language such as Gaelscoils and Áras Chrónáin, an Irish Language center in the area.
    Nowhere will just be made a Gaeltacht area.


  • #25
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    deise go deo wrote: »
    I don't see why it would cause a problem if it was well flaged in advance.
    It's a problem because, unless you know that it's called "An Fhairche" in Irish, you can't get to Clonbur by following road signs.

    I'm not sure what's achieved by pretending that it's not called Clonbur by English speakers.


  • #26
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    There is no irish only langauge quarter in Belfast


  • #27
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    junder wrote: »
    There is no irish only langauge quarter in Belfast

    No, but there is a Gaeltacht Quarter in Belfast. See


  • #28
    RichardAnd
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    A gaeltacht in Dublin would be a non starter in my opinion. If one existed in the city, hundreds of people would pass through it each day of which probably only a tiny fraction would speak Irish. Are these people going to carry out business in that area in Irish, of course not. On top of that, what would non-irish persons (and many irish people) make of the road and street signs suddenly changing to a language they can't read?

    deise go deo, I've read a few of your posts about IRish and you seem like a person very much in love with the language. That's great and I commend anyone taking such an interest in a constructive topic but, like many that laud the Irish language, you also seem to believe that everyone else should learn it too. I have a passionate interest in Baroque music and early modern English but in no way do I expect that the subjects should be compulsory learning material or that the state should otherwise attempt to goad people into studying them.

    The state has been pushing the study of the Irish language at people for decades yet now, I'd wager that there are more fluent speakers of European tongues than of Irish to be had here. Irish is of interest historically and academically but otherwise, it is a language very few will ever become fluent in.


  • #29
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    It's a problem because, unless you know that it's called "An Fhairche" in Irish, you can't get to Clonbur by following road signs.

    I'm not sure what's achieved by pretending that it's not called Clonbur by English speakers.


    Unless you know its called Clonbur you can't get to it following roadsigns either, for somone not from Dublin they are as likely not to have heard of Clonbur before finding they have a reason to go there as 'An Fhairche'.

    For someone from Dublin, they will proably know where it is, and if they don't they will, given it was well flagged in advance, have heard of the name change.


    Honnestly, it is really a nothing issue as far as I can see, it might cause a minor inconvienence for a while, after that it would make no difference as people would just get used to the name change. Certainly I can not see why it would cause someone to fight tooth and nail against something, that seams like a massive overreaction to me.


  • #30
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    c_man wrote: »
    Lol, maybe they should start by actually evaluating how many Irish is actually spoken there.


    They will be, Current Gaeltacht areas that don't meet the criteria needed to have Gaeltacht Status will be given 2 years to meet the requirements, if they don't, they lose gaeltacht status.


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  • #31
    kfdb
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭kfdb


    How will the local people of Clondalkin be consulted on this? Is there a suggestion of a local plebiscite?

    Presumably, only open to those that live in the to-be-designated area and subject to a some kind of quorum? And will it be a kind of one-vote one-time question?

    I wonder how a multinational company might feel about having signs to their facility in Irish only. As a total aside, I wonder if our political masters might pause for thought about the idea of such direct democracy - could be hijacked by the usual suspects to vote on Bank Bailouts, Septic Tanks and whatever else Joe Duffy commands :)

    K


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