Aluclad or PVC?

digitaldr · 22-11-2014 10:19am #1

We're looking at new windows and patio doors for our north facing kitchen. The existing ones (black pvc) are less than 10 years old and are just very standard builder supplied double glazing. There's lots of glass - I don't have exact measurements to hand but there's a large window with two small opening ones to the side. A double French door to the side and also a 4m span at the back consisting of a double French door with fixed panes either side. Needless to say the kitchen is very hard to heat and once the two large vertical radiators are turned off it gets cold very quickly. It's a semi d and we're happy that the exterior walls are well insulated with kingspan although there's a lot more glass than wall.

We recently got a very modern new kitchen and thought that aluclad (with cladding inside and out if possible) windows would compliment it well and keep us nice and cosy. Anyway went along to a well known double glazing company who told us that they'd got out of aluclad as they were unsuitable for the Irish climate. They said that with our damp climate the wood never got a chance to dry out in the Summer and that eventually it would start to rot. Now they did concede that if we were to spend major money we might get aluclads that we less likely to have this problem. Instead they recommended their most thermally efficient pvc triple glazing. Unfortunately they couldn't give us the sleek architectural angular look we were after. We wanted to change the 4m span at the back to sliding doors and they advised a fixed pane on one side with a lift and slide on the other as being the most thermally efficient.

Sorry about the long post but here are my questions!

1 Are they telling the truth about aluclad?
2 If aluclad are actually ok is it possible to have cladding inside & out to get the look we want?
3 would an all aluminium frame be a possibility or would it be too thermally inefficient?

Thanks

bmm · 23-11-2014 1:21am

1 Are they telling the truth about aluclad? First time i've ever heard that one. Velux windows are technically aluclad and are used all over the country since the 1970s. I've yet to see one rot. Sounds like you need to talk to some alternative suplliers.
2 If aluclad are actually ok is it possible to have cladding inside & out to get the look we want? ?
3 would an all aluminium frame be a possibility or would it be too thermally inefficient? Yip. Very bad idea!

It's all about the U value ! then security, then finish!

digitaldr · 23-11-2014 1:40am

Thanks for the reply. Wish I could mention the name of the company but let's just say they're fair

Sorry if question 2 wasn't clear but what I was trying to say was that we are after a commercial style look with aluminium on the inside too. Aluclad usually have varnished wood on the inside - a look we definitely don't want. I realise they can be painted but would prefer a maintenance free option.

Munster joinery do an aluminium window that might fit the bill - ecotherm which is thermally broken. Having said that I've seen a few reports of condensation forming on the inside of the frames which I presume is not a good sign. Also there's no mention of WEP certs on their website.

BryanF · 23-11-2014 11:03am

Google 'Powder coated aluminium windows'

digitaldr · 27-11-2014 1:17am

Well called out to another firm today and the saleswoman looked genuinely puzzled when I told her what the company in my original post had said about aluclad windows. Anyway they're going to quote us for passive aluminum windows with triple glazing and aluclad for the sliding door (sprayed the same colour) as they can't do this in full aluminium. Will also get a quote on aluclad for the rest although this would work out more expensive and would prefer not to have paint the interior frames down the line (don't like the varnished wood look). Is there much advantage in paying extra fro krypton? I'd be grateful for an opinion on the cert below:

braddun · 27-11-2014 1:35am

get triple glazed windows from Germany or Sweden,

ht9zni1gs28crp · 27-11-2014 3:11pm

Any decent window company can colour the wood internally to match any RAL colour. If like us we didn't want the timber inside rather to match the exterior colour. Most companies will include this in the price...

digitaldr · 27-11-2014 4:14pm

Yeah I realise we can have the wood painted inside but we wanted them to be as maintenence free as possible and prefer the sharper lines of the aluminium frames and they'll apparently be a bit cheaper. Also while the factory painted wood has a lovely smooth finish this would no doubt go once they're repainted.

MENACE2010 · 03-12-2014 12:00pm

Hi
I have triple glazed , PVC windows , based on a german system (<snip>) . We considered Aluclad but the cost was eye watering .. I called around for PVC .. ( usual suspects ) and got a recommendation to talk to <SNIP>, they supply the <snip> profile.. its brilliant , its comes in any colour. it does not have a steel core its entirely different and looks elegant.

on aluclad we learned that the cost is is in how the woodframes are made... eg the amount of wood waste , if you get a frame with less joints = €€€€€€ more joints its "cheaper". we dropped it entirely , and very happy with PVC..

kkelliher · 03-12-2014 12:10pm

Please read charter in respect to naming of companies, simply not allowed. recommendations by pm only

MENACE2010 · 03-12-2014 12:36pm

Sorry .. will never do it again

MENACE2010 · 03-12-2014 12:37pm

if you want the names of the <snip> , and <snip> Pm me.

digitaldr · 03-12-2014 1:22pm

Thanks for the advice - I managed to see those names before they were snipped! Might consider them but really wanted to get away from pvc if we can afford it. Nice to see they have a huge range of colours though. How are they thermally?

Still waiting for the crowd in my last post to get back to us. It's nearly like the Celtic Tiger again - have to chase companies to get a response - you'd swear they didn't want the business.

MENACE2010 · 03-12-2014 1:54pm

Hi
i have been banned yikes but still can post a reply .. thermally they are great .. no problem , I dont have a problem with PVC .. ours are in a nice light mouse grey colour.. very nice I must say triple glass everywhere in the house . .except some velux windows

digitaldr · 03-12-2014 2:10pm

Sorry you got banned - seems a bit harsh for a first offence. Thanks for the advice will probably contact them for a quote. PVC always looks better if it's not white or fake wood.

MENACE2010 · 03-12-2014 5:14pm

Hi
The advantage of <snip> is that they have a lower profile as well , what also comes into play as well visually , the finish is great and the window furniture is nice. We have one very high window +365 cm and they deliver with no hesitation. ( with some good advice)

fatty pang · 17-12-2014 9:53pm

digitaldr wrote: »

1 Are they telling the truth about aluclad?

It’s far more likely that “they’d got out of aluclad” because they are clearly clueless about timber and alu-clad timber windows. The fact that they were ‘in it’ in the first place without having any idea what they were doing is a fair indictment of the industry unfortunately.

fatty pang · 17-12-2014 10:03pm

digitaldr wrote: »

Is there much advantage in paying extra fro krypton? I'd be grateful for an opinion on the cert below:

Krypton is very expensive, particularly in comparison to argon. It's also -from an environmental perspective - a 'dirty' gas in so far as it takes significant energy inputs to produce. Argon by comparison is a (waste) byproduct of the process used to produce oxygen. With adequately sized cavities (circa 16-18mm) in the insulated glazing units, argon is just as efficient.
As to the certificate it’s purely the result of a software exercise. It’s not an assessment on the durability or quality of the window. There is no indication of its weather performance or its strength. It’s not clear if a single light window of 1230x1480mm (that gives the 0.7 u-value quoted) is actually available or has been physically tested. Beyond a certain size internal reinforcement will be required rather than the expanding foam that is pumped into the profiles shown in the cert. With dark cladding that size limit will likely be smaller still. Reinforcement will not result in such pretty isothermal sections. The certificate shows some very curious installation details that would be extremely rare to see put into practice.
I’m not at all sure what the point of putting aluminium cladding on a plastic window is either... apart from jacking up the manufacturing costs and end price to the consumer.

Aluclad or PVC?

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