Website design options - users login/payments

#1 · 19-01-2015 1:18am #1

Hi,

I am looking to create a new site (for a business idea) which gives users the option to sign up and also has a secure payment option for the users.

Is there a good service/site/something I can use to do these things?

Also any suggestions for some good free/cheap site templates would be very useful.

Appreciate any advise

Sheeps · 19-01-2015 1:42am

What's your business idea? If it's some kind of eCommerce business then there are lots of web apps you can install from wordpress with various ecommerce plugins to traditional shopping carts. If you don't fancy hosting it yourself there are many shopping carts that are SAS like volusion.

Once you have your cart you then need a payment gateway. Paypal or stripe can seem cheap starting off but they take a huge chunk of your pie once you get going, so if you have a business plan in place and a some start up funds getting set up with a merchant bank account and payment gateway (realex payments, sagepay or the like) may be the cheaper way to do it. All of the above have fairly straight forward APIs for integrating your payments solution, and most of these gateways will have plugins for most shopping carts or ecommerce packages.

shawty · 19-01-2015 2:10am

Sheeps wrote: »

What's your business idea?

It is more based around users buying services from each other, not eCommerce. Some user would provide the service and others would pay those users for their services (that sounds bad... it's not bad

)

Sheeps wrote: »

If you don't fancy hosting it yourself there are many shopping carts that are SAS like volusion.

I do have my own hosting already for a basic holiday home website. Could I use the with wordPress? I'm a novice so apologies if its stupid Q. I just know the easiest way to have user accounts on my website?

Sheeps wrote: »

if you have a business plan in place and a some start up funds

The business plan is coming along but I do not have funding! I'll be looking to get started on a shoe string really.. but am determined to give it a shot.

Sheeps · 19-01-2015 10:27am

shawty wrote: »

It is more based around users buying services from each other, not eCommerce. Some user would provide the service and others would pay those users for their services (that sounds bad... it's not bad )

I do have my own hosting already for a basic holiday home website. Could I use the with wordPress? I'm a novice so apologies if its stupid Q. I just know the easiest way to have user accounts on my website?

The business plan is coming along but I do not have funding! I'll be looking to get started on a shoe string really.. but am determined to give it a shot.

So you're facilitating the payment? If it's private person to person payments you'd probably need something more bespoke to talk to the APIs of your payment processor.

shawty · 19-01-2015 10:30am

Sheeps wrote: »

So you're facilitating the payment? If it's private person to person payments you'd probably need something more bespoke to talk to the APIs of your payment processor.

Yes that exactly what it would be. Any recommendations on what I could use for that?

Also on the site having users, is wordPress my best bet there or should I use some other site or even try creating my own db?

Thanks

Sheeps · 19-01-2015 11:45am

shawty wrote: »

Yes that exactly what it would be. Any recommendations on what I could use for that?

Also on the site having users, is wordPress my best bet there or should I use some other site or even try creating my own db?

Thanks

Afraid you'd probably need something bespoke which will cost you a pretty penny.

If you're going to be using cards to acquire the funds then you'd need to authorise for the amount of the service and if successful take your cut, then issue a credit or card refund to the receiver of the payment. If you use something like paypal or stripe say good bye to any of your profits considering it'll be a percentage of each transaction. If you get a merchant service agreement and set up with a payment service provider you can get flat fees per transaction, but generally big companies who implement a system like this will by big corporate clients to the payment service providers and as such will get massive discounts on the cost per transaction due to the high volume of transactions they process.

Most gambling websites operate on this model.

Graham · 19-01-2015 11:55am

shawty wrote: »

Yes that exactly what it would be. Any recommendations on what I could use for that?

Also on the site having users, is wordPress my best bet there or should I use some other site or even try creating my own db?

Thanks

It sounds like your thinking of a 2 sided market place whereby you match buyers and sellers while facilitating payments for both.

It's a notoriously difficult business to establish as without buyers you will struggle to attract sellers, without sellers you will struggle to attract buyers. The dead-pool has quite a few corpses for just such operations.

WordPress on it's own is not going to give you what you're looking for as WordPress has no facility to match users/buyers/sellers/take payments. You may find 1 or 2 Wordpress plugins that get you closer to your goal.

devildriver · 19-01-2015 4:04pm

shawty wrote: »

Hi,

I am looking to create a new site (for a business idea) which gives users the option to sign up and also has a secure payment option for the users.

Is there a good service/site/something I can use to do these things?

Also any suggestions for some good free/cheap site templates would be very useful.

Appreciate any advise

Two things there ring alarm bells for me.

You are looking to make money through subscriptions or online transactions but are unwilling to spend money on the site.

As Graham has said, if we understand the business model correctly then it's a very difficult one to make successful.

And the nature of the business and the transactions mean it will require spending some money.

shawty · 19-01-2015 4:23pm

devildriver wrote: »

Two things there ring alarm bells for me.

You are looking to make money through subscriptions or online transactions but are unwilling to spend money on the site.

I've taken a look at payPal and an example of what they would take is 2.9% and 30c per transaction. While giving up that much is not ideal I think it could be a good way for me to enter the market with a view toward getting set up with "merchant bank account and payment gateway" as suggested above later down the line?

If my model is to have two types of users on the site, 1 selling a service and the other buying that service from them would WordPress be the way to go? Is there another service I should be considering?

Really appreciate all the advise and I of course understand it's a challenge market place to even considering entering. But would love to give it a shot anyway

Graham · 19-01-2015 5:45pm

shawty wrote: »

I've taken a look at payPal and an example of what they would take is 2.9% and 30c per transaction. While giving up that much is not ideal I think it could be a good way for me to enter the market with a view toward getting set up with "merchant bank account and payment gateway" as suggested above later down the line?

Are you going to get charged to receive payments on one side, then get charged to make payments on the other side? Are you going to take a hit on currency conversion. How will you provide for fraudulent transactions?

That could eat a significant chunk of your turnover before you've even considered ANY other costs or a profit margin.

shawty wrote: »

If my model is to have two types of users on the site, 1 selling a service and the other buying that service from them would WordPress be the way to go? Is there another service I should be considering?

You may find a marketplace type plugin for WordPress, who would configure, run and support that for you?

Almost (if not) all successful Marketplace websites in operation are custom designed/coded.

devildriver · 19-01-2015 5:53pm

shawty wrote: »

I've taken a look at payPal and an example of what they would take is 2.9% and 30c per transaction. While giving up that much is not ideal I think it could be a good way for me to enter the market with a view toward getting set up with "merchant bank account and payment gateway" as suggested above later down the line?

If my model is to have two types of users on the site, 1 selling a service and the other buying that service from them would WordPress be the way to go? Is there another service I should be considering?

Really appreciate all the advise and I of course understand it's a challenge market place to even considering entering. But would love to give it a shot anyway

Very hard to give advice without knowing exactly what you are trying to achieve. What value are you bringing to either the buyer or seller? Are you simply providing an escrow type service or is there any approval process involved that qualifies your sellers as experts? Have you worked out a dispute process if the buyer is unhappy with the service provided?

There's nothing wrong with being an agent or middleman and taking a cut but I'm just trying to understand what value you are bringing to the transaction.

On the technical side I can't see how Wordpress would really be able to handle this. At the very least you will need a platform that can efficiently manage user profiles. It's possible that it could be done with an "off the shelf" CMS (Expression Engine would be one option) but it would require a lot of customisation.

As regards payment processors Paypal or Stripe would be perfectly acceptable at the early stages presuming that the transaction amounts aren't in the single digits.

shawty · 19-01-2015 6:04pm

Graham wrote: »

Are you going to get charged to receive payments on one side, then get charged to make payments on the other side?

Well I would hope not to but I don't see any way around that to be being with? I was hoping for something automated. So I have a user (user 1) offering the service and a user (user 2) paying for that service. I want user 2 to pay user 1 for the service and then I take a % of the transaction.

Graham wrote: »

You may find a marketplace type plugin for WordPress, who would configure, run and support that for you?

Almost (if not) all successful Marketplace websites in operation are custom designed/coded.

I'll have a look into Marketplace plugins then, thanks.

shawty · 19-01-2015 6:08pm

devildriver wrote: »

What value are you bringing to either the buyer or seller?

Facilitating them with a site they can offer their services and have them automatically requested.

devildriver wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with being an agent or middleman and taking a cut but I'm just trying to understand what value you are bringing to the transaction.

Yes, my website will be the middleman. It will provide a secure location for all users.

devildriver wrote: »

At the very least you will need a platform that can efficiently manage user profiles.

That was a big question of mine also. I thought WordPress could facilitate this? Managing user profiles would be a massive part of the business.

devildriver · 19-01-2015 6:18pm

shawty wrote: »

Yes, my website will be the middleman. It will provide a secure location for all users.

But from a buyers point of view why would I use your website rather than just Google the service I was looking for and contact the provider directly?

shawty · 19-01-2015 6:25pm

devildriver wrote: »

But from a buyers point of view why would I use your website rather than just Google the service I was looking for and contact the provider directly?

My buyers would require a level of security that Google'ing a provider would not provide. Don't worry I've thought about that one

I am more interested in how I can get a nice site off the ground. User profile management, secure payments & site look/feel being my first ports of call.

devildriver · 19-01-2015 6:31pm

shawty wrote: »

My buyers would require a level of security that Google'ing a provider would not provide. Don't worry I've thought about that one

I am more interested in how I can get a nice site off the ground. User profile management, secure payments & site look/feel being my first ports of call.

A level of security? So you are going to provide some guarantee/accountability for the services provided by your sellers?

To be honest I really don't understand your business model.

All I can say is that I would make sure that it is viable first before even thinking about the site. At the end of the day it doesn't matter how good the site is if the business model simply doesn't work.

shawty · 19-01-2015 6:54pm

devildriver wrote: »

All I can say is that I would make sure that it is viable first before even thinking about the site. At the end of the day it doesn't matter how good the site is if the business model simply doesn't work.

Hit "Submit Reply" and seems to have not sent. Anyway, trying again.

Apologies for the ambiguity. I am happy with my basic business model.

I really just want to understand how best to create a site which can manage user profiles and which I can also plugin a secure payment system?

The user profile management remains by big question.

devildriver · 19-01-2015 7:08pm

shawty wrote: »

Hit "Submit Reply" and seems to have not sent. Anyway, trying again.

Apologies for the ambiguity. I am happy with my basic business model.

I really just want to understand how best to create a site which can manage user profiles and which I can also plugin a secure payment system?

The user profile management remains by big question.

shawty wrote: »

Apologies for the ambiguity. I am happy with my basic business model.

Fair enough.

shawty wrote: »

I really just want to understand how best to create a site which can manage user profiles and which I can also plugin a secure payment system?

The user profile management remains by big question.

First of all I think this will require custom development. So talking to a designer / developer would be a good start. I know that Expression Engine has very powerful member management features and user permissions.

Secondly this is something that can't really be fully automated. At a basic level you will need to manually make the payments to your seller once the buyers funds arrive in your account. The buyers side of things can be automated though.

Another thing to consider is the VAT implications if you are selling outside Ireland. The new VAT MOSS rules for 2015 are causing major problems for small businesses trading electronic services in the EU. I don't know if that applies to your services but it's worth mentioning.

And finally you will need to make room in the budget for advertising to reach your intended buyers and sellers, whether that's online advertising, Adwords etc and/or offline in trade publications etc.

tricky D · 19-01-2015 7:53pm

shawty wrote: »

Well I would hope not to but I don't see any way around that to be being with? I was hoping for something automated. So I have a user (user 1) offering the service and a user (user 2) paying for that service. I want user 2 to pay user 1 for the service and then I take a % of the transaction.

Your model is getting into the middle between the supplier and consumer and taking a cut. I've experience in this field and this a really hard method to pull off for the following interdependent reasons (threats/weaknesses):

Fundamentally, the Internet is really good at cutting out the middleman.
You'll have big competition from the likes of Google so you're going to have big SEO overheads trying to get top listings and above the likes of Google seven packs type result formats.
Marketing and brand development costs will be big, really big.
Managing the cut in the middle means having to use methods like call centres in the middle to prevent more direct access methods and there's not a lot you can do about getting circumvented in most scenarios.
It's almost impossible to provide a decent solution without bespoke developers and the costs of that.
The target market needs to be well monied to make it worthwhile.
Repeat business is important for loads of reasons.
Trying to get market share versus any existing competition from similar setups.

I know of only one Irish company without a pre-existing presence who has really managed this with reasonable success and the investment required was millions.

Graham wrote: »

The dead-pool has quite a few corpses for just such operations.

Aka the Boulevard of Broken Dreams where almost all end up.

Graham · 19-01-2015 8:58pm

shawty wrote: »

I am happy with my basic business model.

I really just want to understand how best to create a site which can manage user profiles and which I can also plugin a secure payment system?

The user profile management remains by big question.

There is so much more to a two-sided marketplace than user profiles and payment methods. I would suggest you have a few more months of research before you even consider looking at a site build.

Seriously, go and look at airbnb.com or elance.com, sign up and explore (a lot).

shawty · 20-01-2015 12:17am

Graham wrote: »

There is so much more to a two-sided marketplace than user profiles and payment methods. I would suggest you have a few more months of research before you even consider looking at a site build.

Seriously, go and look at airbnb.com or elance.com, sign up and explore (a lot).

Thanks. I am doing my research and building my business plan so the other aspects I'm confident about covering myself. Glad of all the advice here tho

User profiles, payment methods and even a nice easy way to get a site template are the things I'd like more info on? I have developer contacts I can see I'll probably be calling on.

shawty · 20-01-2015 12:21am

tricky D wrote: »

Your model is getting into the middle between the supplier and consumer and taking a cut. I've experience in this field and this a really hard method to pull off for the following interdependent reasons (threats/weaknesses):
Fundamentally, the Internet is really good at cutting out the middleman.

You'll have big competition from the likes of Google so you're going to have big SEO overheads trying to get top listings and above the likes of Google seven packs type result formats.

Marketing and brand development costs will be big, really big.

Managing the cut in the middle means having to use methods like call centres in the middle to prevent more direct access methods and there's not a lot you can do about getting circumvented in most scenarios.

It's almost impossible to provide a decent solution without bespoke developers and the costs of that.

The target market needs to be well monied to make it worthwhile.

Repeat business is important for loads of reasons.

Trying to get market share versus any existing competition from similar setups.

I know of only one Irish company without a pre-existing presence who has really managed this with reasonable success and the investment required was millions.

Thanks for the tips. You've not put me off yet though

Graham · 20-01-2015 9:34am

shawty wrote: »

Thanks. I am doing my research and building my business plan so the other aspects I'm confident about covering myself. Glad of all the advice here tho .

Very sensible, keep researching.

shawty wrote: »

User profiles, payment methods and even a nice easy way to get a site template are the things I'd like more info on?

I'd like more information on a nice easy way to build up my personal gold bullion reserves too. I suspect neither is going to happen soon.

If it were easy, there would be no point doing it because everyone else would be doing it. The reason there's money to be made in 2 sided marketplaces is precisely because it's not easy.

shawty wrote: »

I have developer contacts I can see I'll probably be calling on.

Don't do this, not yet. Most developers get a constant stream of approaches from people with no experience of web projects, no experience of building a business and a half baked idea.

You are so early in the process that your plan doesn't even qualify as half baked. You don't even understand the ingredients you need yet. So far you've convinced me of two things, 1) you appear to be fairly enthusiastic 2) you have little to no idea how much there is to a two-sided marketplace.

If you're lucky you might get a developer to sit down with you politely for a few minutes while he mentally slaps himself for agreeing to meet you. Don't waste your time or his/her time.

Go and do your research (hint: posting here isn't enough research) and/or find a 6 or 7 figure development budget.

If you already have a 7 figure development budget, ignore all of the above and go for it. The worst that can happen is you'll spend it.

shawty · 20-01-2015 10:31am

Graham wrote: »

1) you appear to be fairly enthusiastic 2) you have little to no idea how much there is to a two-sided marketplace.

If you're lucky you might get a developer to sit down with you politely for a few minutes while he mentally slaps himself for agreeing to meet you. Don't waste your time or his/her time.

Go and do your research (hint: posting here isn't enough research) and/or find a 6 or 7 figure development budget.

If you already have a 7 figure development budget, ignore all of the above and go for it. The worst that can happen is you'll spend it.

Ok, thanks for the very very patronising and condescending advise there!

devildriver · 20-01-2015 12:45pm

shawty wrote: »

Ok, thanks for the very very patronising and condescending advise there!

It might not be what you want to hear but it's very sound advice. If you truly believe in your idea then you should prepare for it to be soundly thrashed from every angle. Don't be put off if people are critical of it but you do need to learn something from every criticism, positive or negative.

You have been very sparing with the detail on this concept so you have to expect that people will be sceptical. The scant details you have provided so far make it look like you are trying to create a "get rich quick scheme" with minimal investment or effort.

That may not be the case but it's hard to counter that view with the little information we have been given.

shawty · 20-01-2015 12:53pm

devildriver wrote: »

The scant details you have provided so far make it look like you are trying to create a "get rich quick scheme" with minimal investment or effort.

Cheers. I'm aware I'm only giving minimal details. Don't see the need to give more really. I just wanted some high level info from those in the know. Aspects of the project I'm already comfortable with don't require discussions on here... yet

Anyway, I remain thick skinned and enthusiastic and ready for hard work.

But sher wouldn't we all love to hit that next "get rick quick scheme"! :cool:

liam24 · 20-01-2015 4:57pm

Don't put the login button on the left.

SouperComputer · 27-01-2015 7:51am

IMO, based on this thread so far, before you even think of building any site or code, read up on lean startup methodologies and bootstrapping, because essentially that is what you are doing.

Have you validated the idea/concept yet?

On the website side, seems like you are looking at a multi vendor marketplace setup. I think that renders most e-commerce wordpress offerings out (I could be wrong there). There are multi-vendor addons for magento, and also socialengine has a marketplace plugin available. I think I have more resources/links for multi vendor I will look up my notes.

Adaptive payments is probably another thing you will need to look into. There is no way to escape transaction fees, so you need to factor them into your costs.

Be very, very careful with "security" claims, work hard to build and develop other differentiators.

Lastly, ideas are common and practically worthless. It's the execution that matters. Worry more about fleshing the idea out and improving on it, than someone "stealing" it.

Actually socialengine will will do most of what you are looking for (profiles + marketplace, payment processing gateway), but you are looking at probably $2k out the gate before you start to actually build and configure it. It wont run on your average shared hosting platform either. $2k isnt a lot of money on the scheme of things, but when you are looking at free templates its quite a jump..

Building the site wil be the easy part. Like a few hinted at, successfully marketing it will be much tougher. Be sure you have validated the idea and its worth being being for the long haul, because it will be a long haul.

May be of relevance to you:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/10/us-amazon-com-services-idUSKBN0EL20S20140610
http://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital/2014/08/11/fiverr-raises-30m-for-online-services-marketplace/

was.deevey · 30-01-2015 10:57pm

Isn't this just another spin on freelancer.com / Odesk

Service provider makes an Account
User searches for service and agrees an amount
You take your cut
Jobs finished release funds to service provider

Or

Or is it more like Dealgrocer where services are advertised, paid on your site and you have no interaction other than releasing the funds to the service provider ?

Either way theres a ton of clone scripts available that would probably do what you need with reasonably minimal modification.

shawty · 12-02-2015 3:01pm

Thanks very much for this, great info for me.

Website design options - users login/payments

Comments