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Is it time to go back to Fianna Fáil?

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  • 14-07-2012 11:17pm
    #1
    Canvasser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 290 ✭✭


    After the collapse of Lehman Brothers and the global downturn it was inevitable there would be a recession in Ireland. At the last election the people took their anger out on Fianna Fáil and turned towards Fine Gael/Labour. This is understandable but ignores the fact that that when in opposition Fine Gael and Labour were actually calling for lower taxes and higher spending. The crisis would be even worse today had the Fine Gael manifesto from 2007 been implemented.

    Fine Gael in particular have been very arrogant in government. Hogan and Reilly are just gombeen men in politics for personal gain. The 5 point plan was an absolute joke and none of it has been implemented. Where are the 100,000 new jobs that were promised? Where is the free GP care they promised? What about burning the bondholders? Labour are also implementing none of their centre left policies and are trying to use gay marriage to distract from their failures.

    Fianna Fáil were at least honest in 2011 and outlined what needed to be done. Fine Gael/Labour are essentially just implementing FF policies while pretending to be new and different.


«13

Comments

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    #2
    RichardAnd
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    I knew this would happen eventually . . .


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76145263&postcount=8


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    #3
    mikemac1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    No harm OP, if you didn't start this thread then someone else would have :)


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    #4
    shofukan
    Registered Users Posts: 365 ✭✭shofukan


    Canvasser wrote: »
    gombeen men in politics for personal gain
    Pot. Kettle. Black.


  • Options
    #5
    gaffer91
    Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    OP give up on this nonsense about Lehman Brothers and the global recession. The current deficit is a direct result of disastrous FF/PD spending binges and erosion of the tax base. The global recession has nothing to do with it. I do agree that FG and Labour would have been no better but that it is not the issue. FF were the ones in control of the levers of power and they were the ones who led Ireland into its current predicament.

    Having said that, I don't think FG and Labour are any great shakes, and I absolutely detest SF and the ULA types. If FF somehow started espousing full social liberalism, i.e support for gay marriage and adoption, drug liberalisation, support for abortion rights and so on, combined with a pragmatic form of centrist economic policies, I probably would vote for them. This is extremely unlikely to happen however so I really haven't a clue who to support at present.


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    #6
    LoYL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 235 ✭✭LoYL


    You have to wait until the mess they created is sorted out. Then you can go back and add to the usual pattern: Dev/FF make a disaster, someone sorts it out, FF back in...and so on. This time people might have seen through them. Incompetence and corruption is their legacy. Never forget their posturing self serving bombastic arrogance.


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    #7
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,291 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    I see you are a member of FF from your previous posts OP.

    I think the party is utterly and completely tainted for another 10 years.
    Also as long as you continue to put forward the theory that 'Lehmann Brothers collapse was responsible' and refuse to see that FF must shoulder the bulk of the blame then I'm afraid you'll struggle to get the middle class PAYE vote back.

    Also a move to a social liberal position would help as there is a gap there, but judging by some of your other posts "Crowe is absolutely right not to pander to the gay lobby. Gays are trying to intimidate politicians into letting them do whatever they want. They are as bad as the IRA" I suspect its not a move you yourself would be comfortable with.


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    #8
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    no


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    #9
    gaffer91
    Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    LoYL wrote: »
    You have to wait until the mess they created is sorted out. Then you can go back and add to the usual pattern: Dev/FF make a disaster, someone sorts it out, FF back in...and so on. This time people might have seen through them. Incompetence and corruption is their legacy. Never forget their posturing self serving bombastic arrogance.

    Historically this is not true at all, I don't see why people on boards repeat it so often? :confused:

    A more accurate representation would be: FF create a mess, FG/ Labour come in and fail to sort it out, and then FF come back in and finally sort the mess they created, only years later.


  • Options
    #10
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Fool me once shame on you , fool me twice shame on me .... Fool me...how many times have we done this now... As Bertie said, who'd have thought running a country could be so complicated ....

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Options
    #11
    Hootanany
    Registered Users Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Hootanany


    NO


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    #12
    368100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭368100


    No no no no....FG no use either....the country is waiting for an alternative to the usual types that occupy office


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    #13
    WealthyB
    Registered Users Posts: 421 ✭✭WealthyB


    Never. However it's a testament to the idiocy of Irish voters that FF are even still a functioning party; they know all they need to do is hide in the long grass and the electorate will be fooled once again into voting them back in once FG/LAB inevitably alienate the public.

    Then again FG/FF are simply cheeks of the same arse in my opinion.


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    #14
    murraykil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 460 ✭✭murraykil


    Sinn Féin are likely to make the biggest gains in the next election if things continue as they are now. Gerry Adams is very vocal in his criticisms of the Government and gets frequent media coverage. Labour could lose a lot of support, Fine Gael some; that coupled with large Sinn Féin gains and some Fianna Fáil could lead to some interesting coalition possibilities!


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    #15
    WealthyB
    Registered Users Posts: 421 ✭✭WealthyB


    murraykil wrote: »
    Sinn Féin are likely to make the biggest gains in the next election if things continue as they are now. Gerry Adams is very vocal in his criticisms of the Government and gets frequent media coverage. Labour could lose a lot of support, Fine Gael some; that coupled with large Sinn Féin gains and some Fianna Fáil could lead to some interesting coalition possibilities!

    There's a large section of the electorate that will never vote SF for a multitude of reasons. Labour will be decimated akin to post-1992 when they jumped into bed with FF. FF of course know all this and will be waiting in the wings to make inevitable gains. Again, all a testament to the idiocy and goldfish mentality of the Irish electorate. FF as a party should no longer exist having bankrupted this country.


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    #16
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    What, I wonder, does the OP think FF stand for other than not being FG/Lab?

    Personally, the main reason I want to see FF utterly destroyed is not because they are any worse than other parties, but they are like a poison and so long as they are around it will always be this unthinking politics of "vote for us, not the other guy".

    If FF are gone we might start to see FG and Labour developing actual centre right / centre left policies.


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    #17
    cristoir
    Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭cristoir


    Simply saying "Fine Gael/Labour would have done the same" isn't good enough. We have no way of knowing what they would have done. However we do know what Fianna Fáil did.

    Slashed tax's and increased spending and then praying that the stamp duty would keep the deficit down forever. Leaving the banking sector so unregulated that our banks could not handle the crash. Social partnership which drove up inflation and the cost of living. A housing bubble that lead to a spectacular crash. A mismanagement of public finances so severe that we had to be aided by an organisation that traditionally gives support to failed states and crashed out economies.

    I'd rather keep the current government thank you very much.


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    #18
    Hootanany
    Registered Users Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Hootanany


    WealthyB wrote: »
    There's a large section of the electorate that will never vote SF for a multitude of reasons. Labour will be decimated akin to post-1992 when they jumped into bed with FF. FF of course know all this and will be waiting in the wings to make inevitable gains. Again, all a testament to the idiocy and goldfish mentality of the Irish electorate. FF as a party should no longer exist having bankrupted this country.


    SS fought for this countrys freedom why do you diss them.
    and by the way I was born in UK so do not have any links with them or any other party.


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    #19
    Canvasser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 290 ✭✭Canvasser


    This is the FG manifesto from 2007. It called for big increases in spending and lower taxes

    http://www.irishelection.com/2007/05/fine-gael-manifesto/


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    #20
    ZeitgeistGlee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭ZeitgeistGlee


    Hootanany wrote: »
    SS fought for this countrys freedom why do you diss them.
    and by the way I was born in UK so do not have any links with them or any other party.

    Because what was done 90 years ago has no bearing on their modern electoral standing?


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    #21
    Donnaghm
    Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭Donnaghm


    OP misses the point. This country will never go back to voting on mass for pragmatic parties with no particular set of beliefs. Tribal loyalties are a thing of the past. What exactly is FF for is what you should be asking yourself. Forget about Dev, the treaty and whatever historical, now irrelevant achievements you associate with the party brand. A political party is not a football team. You should vote for a party based on a dispassionate assessment of their policies. Leave emotion or an ingrained, hereditary hatred of Fine Gael out of the equation and maybe the country will be better off as a result. K.


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    #22
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    It would be scary to see Micheál Martin and Michael McGrath running the country, It would obviously be beneficial to Cork (in the best of parish pump traditions) But not to the whole country, Personally I don't know who I'll vote for in the next election but I know it won't be FF anyway.


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    #23
    Hootanany
    Registered Users Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Hootanany


    Donnaghm wrote: »
    OP misses the point. This country will never go back to voting on mass for pragmatic parties with no particular set of beliefs. Tribal loyalties are a thing of the past. What exactly is FF for is what you should be asking yourself. Forget about Dev, the treaty and whatever historical, now irrelevant achievements you associate with the party brand. A political party is not a football team. You should vote for a party based on a dispassionate assessment of their policies. Leave emotion or an ingrained, hereditary hatred of Fine Gael out of the equation and maybe the country will be better off as a result. K.

    You happy with this corrupt shower then.


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    #24
    ZeitgeistGlee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭ZeitgeistGlee


    Hootanany wrote: »
    You happy with this corrupt shower then.

    "This corrupt shower" didn't bankrupt the country, and they're not currently led by someone who was in the inner circle for years and did nothing.


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    #25
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Let's see , go back to the party that bankrupted the country? The worst attack on the state since we gained independence.

    The party whose leader took money from a developer and placed it in his wifes bank account.

    The party whose front bench includes a trained solicitor who lied under oath.

    Etc., etc., etc.,

    No thanks


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    #26
    SocSocPol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭SocSocPol


    Never going to happen, FF are finished, they will never again hold sway in this country thank God.
    This is a party built on corruption, dishonesty, lies, cronyism, and the lowest form of parish pump politics.
    The Party who gave Ireland Haughey, Aherne, Rambo Burke, The Flynns.
    The Party who lined their own nests while systematically bankrupting the country and plundering our childrens and grandchildrens future.
    Go back to that? I would sooner hand the country back to the Brits first.:mad:


  • Options
    #27
    SocSocPol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭SocSocPol


    Canvasser wrote: »
    This is the FG manifesto from 2007. It called for big increases in spending and lower taxes

    http://www.irishelection.com/2007/05/fine-gael-manifesto/

    Did it call for "dig outs" for its leader?
    Did it call for bankrupting the country with an inept bank guarentee devised by undoubtidly the worst Taoiseach and dimmest Minister for Finance the state has ever had?


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    #28
    johngalway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    No.


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    #29
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Hell fcking no.


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    #30
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    I've often said it before, FF is only a name. You could get the same collection of crooked corrupt people in any party. The problem has with FF has always been the almost fanatical loyalty to party, this allowed the likes of Haughey to rise to power backed by a few hard men. When they got power they surrounded themselves with more of the same and so it went on, almost mirroring the rise of Hitler and Stalin. Once you get people like this at the helm, ethics and principles take a back seat.
    There have been good and honourable men in FF, Sean Lemass being the most outstanding IMO but it would be hard for FF to gain credibility again with the likes of Martin and O'Dea pulling the strings, they need a root and branch clear out.


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    #31
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    cristoir wrote: »
    Simply saying "Fine Gael/Labour would have done the same" isn't good enough. We have no way of knowing what they would have done. However we do know what Fianna Fáil

    I don't buy your argument for a second, go back to the transcripts on budget day. How many times did the opposition say that the policies FF implemented didn't go far enough. Every December they said they would have built more roads hired more gardai and teachers. Or do you buy into the arguement that opposition can say whatever they want because they don't have to follow through with it?


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