[Diabetes] General Chat and Support Thread

gerrybbadd · 26-10-2011 7:51pm

robinph wrote: »

The Carbs and Cals app is now available on the Android Market:

https://market.android.com/details?id=com.chello.carbsncals&feature=search_result

Just downloading it to my devices now to try it out.

Its fairly expensive compared to the ios version, but it does seem to have more features, such as branded products etc.

ElBarco · 26-10-2011 8:28pm

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Its fairly expensive compared to the ios version, but it does seem to have more features, such as branded products etc.

Am I missing something? Looks like it's €4.99 on ios and €4.49 on android to me.

robinph · 26-10-2011 9:22pm

Cheaper than the book at £15 or so, and easier to carry around.

I noticed the branded stuff in it today as well which I thought was cool and wasn't in the book I had. Found Kelloggs and Dominoes in it so far, couldn't find McDonalds today though which would have been handy.

I got an answer to my query on their Facebook page about the option for pre-downloading all the images, for when you're out of coverage or roaming, and they said it will be in the next update.

Edit:

ElBarco wrote: »

Am I missing something? Looks like it's €4.99 on ios and €4.49 on android to me.

It's £3.99 in GBP and at today's exchange rate that means you can get it for 9 cents cheaper. <angry>

gerrybbadd · 26-10-2011 10:41pm

ElBarco wrote: »

Am I missing something? Looks like it's €4.99 on ios and €4.49 on android to me.

When I got it on ios, it was cheaper than €4.99. I thought it would be the same price, so apologies:pac:

dobaluchi · 28-10-2011 12:02am

Hey there. Newly dx Type 2 here not confirmed yet as have to get anti- body test. Seeing Endo next week.

Random blood sample thru work picked up fasting blood at 18. No symptoms. Lucky it was picked up. Recommended to see gp. Was a good boy diet wise for the 6 days before I saw gp. He confirmed after 2 fb of bg at 15 and 14.4.

4 weeks later I have it down to 10 lowest last week at 8.7. I used to be a carbaholic.

I am following Patrick Holford low GL diet that recommends lots of oats and oat cakes. Complex carbs for diabetics are good as they contain beta glucans as he says. Had about 50 grms of porridge the other day and measured my bg and it went up to 17.4 after an hour and dropped back to 10.4 after two hours same as it was before breakfast.

Other websites like lowcarbdiabetic.co.uk and bloodsugar101 and Dr Bernsteins book all say avoid carbs like the plague.

What do the seasoned diabetics out there say. I am staying off all carbs at the mo in the hope I can normalise before I see Endo.

Any thoughts, experience welcome.

Btw the way, I'm 42. 5'11 and 11 stone 2 pounds ie not overweight. I keep fit. My urine tested fine and no retinopathy detected.

CramCycle · 28-10-2011 12:27am

dobaluchi wrote: »

Other websites like lowcarbdiabetic.co.uk and bloodsugar101 and Dr Bernsteins book all say avoid carbs like the plague.

Carbs are essential, well technically no, but its not a good idea to cut them out completely:

"The theoretical minimal level of carbohydrate (CHO) intake is zero, but CHO is a universal fuel for all cells, the cheapest source of dietary energy, and also the source of plant fiber. In addition, the complete absence of dietary CHO entails the breakdown of fat to supply energy [glycerol as a gluconeogenic substrate, and ketone bodies as an alternative fuel for the central nervous system (CNS)], resulting in symptomatic ketosis. Data in childhood are unavailable, but ketosis in adults can be prevented by a daily CHO intake of about 50 g. This value appears to approximate the quantity of glucose required to satisfy minimal glucose needs of the CNS and during starvation. The Group therefore concluded that the theoretical minimum intake of zero should not be recommended as a practical minimum....about 100 g of glucose/d are irreversibly oxidized by the brain from the age of 3–4 y onward. However, this excludes recycled carbon, gluconeogenic carbon, for example from glycerol, and it does not account for glucose used by other non-CNS tissues. For example, in the adult, muscle and other non-CNS account for an additional 20–30 g of glucose daily. For this reason a safety margin of 50 g/d is arbitrarily added to the value of 100 g/d and the practical minimal CHO intake set at 150 g/d beyond the ages of 3–4 y."

Quoted from : Bier DM, Brosnan JT, Flatt JP, et al. Report of the IDECG Working Group on lower and upper limits of carbohydrate and fat intake. Eur J Clin Nutr 1999;53(suppl):S177–8.

There are hundreds of papers/doctors/nurses/scientists who concur to a reasonable degree.

EDIT: I probably could have edited it a little but you get the point.

eilo1 · 28-10-2011 1:03am

Im probably biased but i personal believe that firing up your metabolism is essential. Lots of high intensity interval training and a good deal of weights. Im talking about an hour plus a day. Obviously you need to build up this level over months though. You cant just start this level of activity from nothing.
It sounds like you are making excellent progress so keep it up and try to improve without injury. Best of luck you are beating the average!!

kowloon · 28-10-2011 4:28am

eilo1 wrote: »

Im talking about an hour plus a day.

:eek: With all the stuff I do that's a lot of time to find, I could trim a few minutes off chocolate hour, move a few hours of tv over to do nothing Wednesday, but it'll take time to organise

.

graflynn · 28-10-2011 10:49am

dobaluchi wrote: »

Hey there. Newly dx Type 2 here not confirmed yet as have to get anti- body test. Seeing Endo next week.

Random blood sample thru work picked up fasting blood at 18. No symptoms. Lucky it was picked up. Recommended to see gp. Was a good boy diet wise for the 6 days before I saw gp. He confirmed after 2 fb of bg at 15 and 14.4.

4 weeks later I have it down to 10 lowest last week at 8.7. I used to be a carbaholic.

I am following Patrick Holford low GL diet that recommends lots of oats and oat cakes. Complex carbs for diabetics are good as they contain beta glucans as he says. Had about 50 grms of porridge the other day and measured my bg and it went up to 17.4 after an hour and dropped back to 10.4 after two hours same as it was before breakfast.

Other websites like lowcarbdiabetic.co.uk and bloodsugar101 and Dr Bernsteins book all say avoid carbs like the plague.

What do the seasoned diabetics out there say. I am staying off all carbs at the mo in the hope I can normalise before I see Endo.

Any thoughts, experience welcome.

Btw the way, I'm 42. 5'11 and 11 stone 2 pounds ie not overweight. I keep fit. My urine tested fine and no retinopathy detected.

Welcome to the diabetes community. My take is that as long as you don't overdo it with the carbs you can still have good control of your diabetes. You're only 42 and have a lot of years left to live without ever having carbs again - do you think you could do it for another 40 years?

dobaluchi · 28-10-2011 12:24pm

Thanks for all your replies so far.

I have not cut out all carbs and don't intend to I'm just cutting down on them and any proper carbs I do eat will be complex carbs or slow releasing like porridge.

Breakfast is where I'm struggling. I like a big breakfast and don't know where to turn if I have to cut porridge. Can't live on shakes or omelets all the time. I have about 40grms porridge with berries and flaxseed and then a cup of tea and an oatcake. Thats it.

Lunch and dinner is not too difficult to cut carbs. Anyway I am getting carbs from veggies etc. Lunch would consist of soup and salad. Dinner meat/fish with either veggies or salad.

By cutting carbs I mean the big 5 No Nos. Pasta, Potatoes, Rice, Cakes/pastries, Bread.

But my question is are Oats something you should cut if you want to normalise bg. I am not on any meds yet, but seeing Endocrinologist next week and we'll see from there. I have increased my exercise levels to daily either a run or a fast walk.

Patrick Holford raves about Oats and oatcakes which btw are a great snack I have to say with a bit of peanut butter.

My BG is coming down but I want to get it to normal levels and join the 5% club. See below. I seem to be stuck on the 10 mark, maybe it just takes a bit more time.

http://lowcarbdiabetic.co.uk/My%20Friends%20Stories.htm

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/16535158.php

CramCycle · 28-10-2011 12:41pm

dobaluchi wrote: »

I have not cut out all carbs and don't intend to I'm just cutting down on them and any proper carbs I do eat will be complex carbs or slow releasing like porridge.

Breakfast is where I'm struggling. I like a big breakfast and don't know where to turn if I have to cut porridge. Can't live on shakes or omelets all the time. I have about 40grms porridge with berries and flaxseed and then a cup of tea and an oatcake. Thats it.

Why do you think you should cut porridge? It is a great energy source that pardon the steal of a tagline "sets you up for the day", it is slow releasing, generally fills you (so helps curb snacking early in the day).

Lunch and dinner is not too difficult to cut carbs. Anyway I am getting carbs from veggies etc. Lunch would consist of soup and salad. Dinner meat/fish with either veggies or salad.

Very few vegetables have carbohydrates, potatoes do, but in general, they have little or none with the few exceptions.

By cutting carbs I mean the big 5 No Nos. Pasta, Potatoes, Rice, Cakes/pastries, Bread.

Nothing wrong with these foods if they are taken in responsible amounts and taken in conjunction with an active lifestyle, excercise is the key, not a crash diet, which can really mess up your metabolism if not done properly. Alot of people tend to overfill there plates with things like pasta/rice etc. Smaller portions and your sorted.

But my question is are Oats something you should cut if you want to normalise bg. I am not on any meds yet, but seeing Endocrinologist next week and we'll see from there. I have increased my exercise levels to daily either a run or a fast walk.

Oats are great, good work on the exercise as well, this will help boost your insulin sensitivity, leading to lower BG levels and generally feeling better overall.

My BG is coming down but I want to get it to normal levels and join the 5% club. See below. I seem to be stuck on the 10 mark, maybe it just takes a bit more time.

Your not diagnosed that long, don't rush as your body may not take all of the changes in as positive a manner as the recommendations on the internet would have you believe. Its great your being so proactive but make sure you double check all your changes with your diabetes team as they are professionals, people on the internet can be, but often are not.

dobaluchi · 28-10-2011 12:59pm

Check this out. Everywhere I urn on the web it seems low carbs are the answer.

http://www.diabeteshealth.com/read/2009/01/13/6044/extremely-low-carb-ketogenic-diet-leads-to-dramatic-reductions-in-type-2-bg-levels-medications/

dobaluchi · 28-10-2011 1:14pm

From the scientific community, A bit technical but you get the point.

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/2/1/34

The Low Carb Ketogenic diet LCKD, improved glycemic control in patients with type 2 diabetes such that diabetes medications were discontinued or reduced in most participants. Because the LCKD can be very effective at lowering blood glucose, patients on diabetes medication who use this diet should be under close medical supervision or capable of adjusting their medication.

CramCycle · 28-10-2011 1:15pm

dobaluchi wrote: »

Check this out. Everywhere I urn on the web it seems low carbs are the answer.

http://www.diabeteshealth.com/read/2009/01/13/6044/extremely-low-carb-ketogenic-diet-leads-to-dramatic-reductions-in-type-2-bg-levels-medications/

Can't say anything about that article as it has no references, I'll look around though. Westman himself is a big pusher of ketogenic diets, even claiming they can possibly cure schizophrenia (maybe they can but I wouldn't count on it). What they are leaving out, is that these ketogenic diets, eg Atkins style diets, are only temporary measures and carbohydrates should be reintroduced slowly to stop the onset of ketoacidosis which is not a pleasant thing (mainly a type 1 thing but it can affect type 2 diabetics in a small number of cases). The Atkins diet itself isn't the worst thing in the world if you follow it through as it reintroduces carbs slowly over a time whereas most people make the mistake of "oh this works in week one, I'll keep repeating week one". Some metabolisms are suited to these types of diet as that is what they have been attuned to, but it is quite a shock for your body to flick from one to the other with no adjustment time.

I firmly agree with cutting down on carbs, just not negating them completely, by how much is person specific although there are ball park figures floating around (mentioned in a previous post).

CramCycle · 28-10-2011 1:44pm

No control group.

That the main outcome, hemoglobin A1c, improved significantly despite the small sample size and short duration of follow-up speaks to the dramatic and consistent effect of the LCKD on glycemia. For other effects, however, such as the rises in serum LDL and HDL cholesterol, the small sample size might be the reason statistical significance was not reached.

Statistical significance or lack there of means they wouldn't put their neck on the line for this paper.

Future studies of larger samples and containing a control group are needed to better address questions about the effect of the LCKD on serum lipids in patients with type 2 diabetes.

Smartest thing they said, although they then go onto state the findings as fact.

They also leave out the high ketone readings from the discussions, they seem to have done no other testing regarding changes to general health beyond the remedial eg cognitive tests (ketones can affect this after prolonged high levels), hypoglycaemic affects (shouldn't affect you because you are not any meds yet).

I don't doubt their results but just recommending that you don't go too overboard, they have published in a fairly low impact journal, indicating the quality of their research wasn't good enough (probably because of sample size and lack of other tests) to be published.

Like I said, cutting down on carbs is no bad thing, cutting them out could be, I realsie you are not cutting them out (porridge = good), just be clear though, these are my opinions, they should not override the advice of your medical team in anyway, the more proactive you are, the more proactive they can be.

eilo1 · 28-10-2011 3:02pm

Sorry I think I may have asked this before but out of curiousity how many carbs are you all eating everyday??

Id get through between 150 -230 a day depending on what im doing. I box and play rugby as well as working part time in a physical job and college. But im still at the higher end of normal weight/body fat. Id love to try and cut down a bit but im always too scared to do it!

graflynn · 28-10-2011 5:29pm

eilo1 wrote: »

Sorry I think I may have asked this before but out of curiousity how many carbs are you all eating everyday??

Id get through between 150 -230 a day depending on what im doing. I box and play rugby as well as working part time in a physical job and college. But im still at the higher end of normal weight/body fat. Id love to try and cut down a bit but im always too scared to do it!

I eat approx. 140grams of carb per day. I'm not very active but I think I do enough to have some of the benefits. I don't feel that this is a lot of carbohydrate and would not feel comfortable reducing it to get my BMI down from 26. I spend a lot of time in front of a computer and I think that's where the problem is for me.

CramCycle · 28-10-2011 5:56pm

eilo1 wrote: »

Sorry I think I may have asked this before but out of curiousity how many carbs are you all eating everyday??

More than I should, probably about a minimum of 320grams a day, that said I work between 12 and 18 hours a day and cycle almost everywhere (not so much over the past month after a knee issue but I am back on it this week). I did put on a few kilos since I stopped over the month but no more than that and I am still technically within the "normal" BMI limits, that said as a researcher, I think % body fat is far more important than BMI which can be misleading.

Doing a 200km cycle tomorrow and walking the DCM on Monday so that should help move it along quite nicely.

newmug · 28-10-2011 6:21pm

Can someone explain to me exactly what is so bad about Ketoacidosis? I'm seeing it everywhere, this food causes it, lack of that food contributes to it, too much carbs can cause it, but too much red meat is not good either. It seems to be the big thing to avoid, but I dont get WHY.

What exactly is so bad about it? I can tell you one thing, it happens to me each and every Sunday morning!

CramCycle · 28-10-2011 6:26pm

newmug wrote: »

Can someone explain to me exactly what is so bad about Ketoacidosis? I'm seeing it everywhere, this food causes it, lack of that food contributes to it, too much carbs can cause it, but too much red meat is not good either. It seems to be the big thing to avoid, but I dont get WHY.

What exactly is so bad about it? I can tell you one thing, it happens to me each and every Sunday morning!

Ketoacidosis shifts your bloods pH quite drastically, can cause coma, blindness, upsset stomach/vomitting, general unwellness, kidney failure, severe dehydration etc. Basically, if you get it bad enough and no one is around to get you sorted or to a hospital, you are, well, I can't use that word but I'm sure you can guess

newmug · 28-10-2011 6:36pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Ketoacidosis shifts your bloods pH quite drastically, can cause coma, blindness, upsset stomach/vomitting, general unwellness, kidney failure, severe dehydration etc. Basically, if you get it bad enough and no one is around to get you sorted or to a hospital, you are, well, I can't use that word but I'm sure you can guess

So it makes your blood acidy? So if the morning after a few pints your breath smells like white spirits, is your blood like the blood from one of the aliens out of the film "aliens"? And why does it only last a few hours? I always thought it was just the excess alcohol in your body being burnt off!

Also, does the Atkins diet not pride itself on causing ketoacidosis as a means to force your body to burn fat?

tbh · 28-10-2011 7:08pm

newmug wrote: »

So it makes your blood acidy?

yes, but that's not a good thing. Your body will do everything it can to regulate the pH of your blood, and it's the compensatory measures it takes that cause damage.

So if the morning after a few pints your breath smells like white spirits, is your blood like the blood from one of the aliens out of the film "aliens"?

It's not really got to do with the pints (unless you're an alcoholic), you can have a few pints and not get it, or you can get it without having any pints at all. It's lack of insulin that causes it

And why does it only last a few hours? I always thought it was just the excess alcohol in your body being burnt off!

when you take insulin, your blood sugar goes down and the mechanism that causes the production of your ketones gets shut off. If you don't treat it, it'll kill you.

Also, does the Atkins diet not pride itself on causing ketoacidosis as a means to force your body to burn fat?

It does, but I doubt you'll find a nutrionist in Ireland who'd recommend Aitkins as a sensible decision - however, that's a discussion for another forum, not for here.

newmug · 28-10-2011 7:26pm

Thanks TBH. Those few explanations have already cleared up a few things in my mind!

But:

tbh wrote: »

It's not really got to do with the pints (unless you're an alcoholic), you can have a few pints and not get it, or you can get it without having any pints at all. It's lack of insulin that causes it

I'm by no means an alcoholic, but I'd drink 10-12 pints on a Saturday night. Are you saying that on the Sunday morning, my body stops producing insulin temporarily? If so, why?

tbh wrote: »

when you take insulin, your blood sugar goes down and the mechanism that causes the production of your ketones gets shut off. If you don't treat it, it'll kill you.

I thought a hangover was a lack of blood sugar? So how is the ketoacidosis being triggered? And why would my body start producing insulin to stop it if my blood sugar is already too low?

tbh wrote: »

It does, but I doubt you'll find a nutrionist in Ireland who'd recommend Aitkins as a sensible decision - however, that's a discussion for another forum, not for here.

Well just a few posts back, one poster was on about cutting out carbs and not liking having to eat omlettes all the time. Is that not the essence of Atkins, and by extension, ketoacidosis?

CramCycle · 28-10-2011 7:44pm

newmug wrote: »

So it makes your blood acidy? So if the morning after a few pints your breath smells like white spirits, is your blood like the blood from one of the aliens out of the film "aliens"? And why does it only last a few hours? I always thought it was just the excess alcohol in your body being burnt off!

It lowers your pH so brings it closer to being an acid, it does not always last a few hours, its typically the fact that you have treated the issues is why it goes away eg you took insulin, eat carbs etc

Also, does the Atkins diet not pride itself on causing ketoacidosis as a means to force your body to burn fat?

Initially it does, and in a typical person this is tolerable for awhile but anyone who bothers to fully readf up on it ie not the media or diet gurus, Dr. Atkins original book only stated that you continued the no carbs diet for a short time, after the initial weight loss, you slowly reintroduced carbs until you were eating a recommended healthy diet. Alot of people stuck with the early stage, which is why many people had issues, whereas if they stuck to the diet properly, they would have lost the weight and then not regained it as they would be eating a healthy balanced diet (exercise would be a bonus here).

This is all of the top of my head so if I am wrong feel free to correct (I'm sure parts of it are).

tbh · 28-10-2011 7:49pm

well first of all - how do you know you have ketones? are you testing? what are the results?

Also, a hangover isn't a lack of blood sugar - although that might be one of the symptoms. It's primarily dehydration, which is also a symptom of keto. So maybe you're getting them mixed up?

Finally, your diabetic care team will tell you its more important to restrict fat than carbs. It can be handy to eat without having to inject, but it's not something you're forced to do. Berstein, atkins etc are not recommended by nutritionists in my experience. And finally, atkins prompts your body to start ketosis, which is the metabolism of fats, but ketoacidosis is the result of too much ketosis - like for example the difference between jogging, and jogging till you drop.

newmug · 28-10-2011 8:07pm

CramCycle wrote: »

It lowers your pH so brings it closer to being an acid, it does not always last a few hours, its typically the fact that you have treated the issues is why it goes away eg you took insulin, eat carbs etc

Right! Now we're getting somewhere! Does eating carbs have the same effect as taking insulin, or does eating carbs induce the production of insulin?

Either way, would you have to produce EXTRA insulin to deal with both the carbs you've just eaten, AND the ketones in your body? Or is the mere fact that insulin has entered your system enough to switch off the ketone production?

And if eating carbs equates to the same result as insulin production, why do diabetics steer away from carbs?

CramCycle wrote: »

Initially it does, and in a typical person this is tolerable for awhile but anyone who bothers to fully readf up on it ie not the media or diet gurus, Dr. Atkins original book only stated that you continued the no carbs diet for a short time, after the initial weight loss, you slowly reintroduced carbs until you were eating a recommended healthy diet. Alot of people stuck with the early stage, which is why many people had issues, whereas if they stuck to the diet properly, they would have lost the weight and then not regained it as they would be eating a healthy balanced diet (exercise would be a bonus here).

I see!

dobaluchi · 28-10-2011 8:07pm

Diabetics, and even some health professionals, often confuse two quite distinct metabolic processes - ketosis and ketoacidosis. Ketosis is a perfectly natural and healthy state during which the body uses stored or dietary fat for fuel. In order to enter this state, carbohydrate intake needs to fall below a certain level. Ideally, a healthy metabolism should regularly use ketosis, while fasting overnight for example, to fuel the body's processes and utilise stored fat reserves. Most of the body's organs, the heart for example, in fact run very efficiently on ketones.
Ketoacidosis is quite different and is typically the result of a chronic lack of insulin, not a lack of carbohydrate. With insufficient insulin, the body attempts to fuel itself by breaking down fat and protein stores in an uncontrolled way, a process which results in the blood becoming dangerously acidic. In short, ketosis usually occurs when blood sugars are at the lower end of the normal range, and ketoacidosis occurs when blood sugars are dangerously elevated. Ketosis is a result of low carbohydrate intake, ketoacidosis is a result of inaquate insulin levels.

newmug · 28-10-2011 8:16pm

tbh wrote: »

well first of all - how do you know you have ketones? are you testing? what are the results?

I dont - but I know I dont drink a bottle of white spirits every Sunday morning either!

tbh wrote: »

Also, a hangover isn't a lack of blood sugar - although that might be one of the symptoms. It's primarily dehydration, which is also a symptom of keto. So maybe you're getting them mixed up?

I am indeed getting mixed up! I always assumed a hangover was basically a mini-diabetic event, a disruption in the balance of your body's workings, due to the high sugar content of alcohol.

Could it not be Keto -> dehydration -> lack of blood sugar? Or are you saying that there are a number of coincidentally diabetic-like symptoms occuring at the same time, due simply to dehydration?

tbh wrote: »

And finally, atkins prompts your body to start ketosis, which is the metabolism of fats, but ketoacidosis is the result of too much ketosis - like for example the difference between jogging, and jogging till you drop.

I see! Good analogy!

dobaluchi · 28-10-2011 8:18pm

That last post was not my writing btw. It came from this website:
http://lowcarbdiabetic.co.uk
Just read about it earlier and it sounded clear to me.
Thanks for the post earlier Cramcycle you've got the analytical eye.

The thing that gets me is that there is such conflicting info in relation to diet and carbs for diabetics.

The food pyramid is fine for "normal" people but useless for diabetics.

Also I'm wondering if the whole GI/GL rating is a scam?

Its geared towards "normal" people again. What might be low GI/GL for some people could be enough to throw a diabetics bgls in to orbit.

Just a thought.

tbh · 28-10-2011 8:44pm

newmug wrote: »

I dont - but I know I dont drink a bottle of white spirits every Sunday morning either!

If you're a diabetic, you should have a ketone meter- your care team can give you one (for free) - whenever you're sick or have high blood sugars you should test for the presence of ketones in the blood and if you have them, basically you should drop everything until you get it sorted out. For example, if you have a cold or flu, you need to up the dose of insulin and check more frequently to make sure you don't get ketones.

I am indeed getting mixed up! I always assumed a hangover was basically a mini-diabetic event, a disruption in the balance of your body's workings, due to the high sugar content of alcohol.

but if that were the case, only diabetics would get hangovers

I think the symptoms you're getting is more likely due to the 12 pints than the blood sugars

Could it not be Keto -> dehydration -> lack of blood sugar? Or are you saying that there are a number of coincidentally diabetic-like symptoms occuring at the same time, due simply to dehydration?

well yeah, I suppose you could say that. You seem to be confused about the blood sugars - it's not when they are too low that's the problem (generally) it's when they are too high.

So - there may be mistakes in here, but this is my understanding of the process:

When you eat carbs, your body breaks them down into glucose, which gets passed into your bloodstream. Your body detects the rise in the amount of glucose in your bloodstream and that triggers the pancreas to produce insulin. Insulin is a hormone that allows the glucose pass into the cells where it's used as fuel. If you can't produce insulin, the glucose can never pass into the cells, so no matter how many cakes you eat, you'll basically "starve" to death.

If no insulin is passing into the cells, they produce glycogen, which says to your liver "hey, do something quickly, we're dying here". the liver then processes fatty acids into glucose (which of course is pointless, as it can never get to the cells, but the liver doesn't know that). The byproduct of this process are the ketones. If you take insulin, the glucose in your blood can get into the cells, so they stop producing glycogen, so the liver stops the process so no more ketones get produced, and eventually they get eliminated from the body. The body gets rid of them through aspiration and through urine/sweat - this is why, if you keep producing them, your body goes into overdrive trying to get rid of them and you can dehydrate, and / or hyperventilate.

Also, if I recall correctly, the ketones themselves are crystalline (I'm a bit vague on this if I'm being honest) so they can damage the cells while they are whizzing around.

[Diabetes] General Chat and Support Thread

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