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P&D Advanced marathoning

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Comments

  • #92
    thewolf_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 851 ✭✭✭thewolf_ie


    I also have these sessions now 9 mi w/5 x 600 m @ 5 k pace. Anyone else any thoughts on tackling these?


  • #93
    pconn062
    Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    thewolf_ie wrote: »
    I also have these sessions now 9 mi w/5 x 600 m @ 5 k pace. Anyone else any thoughts on tackling these?

    3 mile warm up, session (roughly 2 miles in total 5x600m= 3k), 4 mile cool down. That's what I'd do anyway.


  • #94
    thewolf_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 851 ✭✭✭thewolf_ie


    pconn062 wrote: »
    3 mile warm up, session (roughly 2 miles in total 5x600m= 3k), 4 mile cool down. That's what I'd do anyway.

    Cheers!


  • #95
    randomCluster
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭randomCluster


    thewolf_ie wrote: »
    I also have these sessions now 9 mi w/5 x 600 m @ 5 k pace. Anyone else any thoughts on tackling these?

    Did the 5x600m up the Khyber Hill in the Phoenix park this evening. Every 100m is marked. 2.5m warm up and 2.5m cool down. A steady 12m tomorrow, will probably try stick to grass as much as possible.


  • #96
    thewolf_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 851 ✭✭✭thewolf_ie


    randomCluster wrote: »
    Did the 5x600m up the Khyber Hill in the Phoenix park this evening. Every 100m is marked. 2.5m warm up and 2.5m cool down. A steady 12m tomorrow, will probably try stick to grass as much as possible.

    I was lucky to do it on a gravel 400 meter track. Enjoyed it and all.


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  • #97
    sub3wannabe
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭sub3wannabe


    Anyone who is familiar with the 18 week programs in this book care to hazard a rough ratio between weekly millage and target time?

    Chapter:8 88km peak - 3:30 -4:00
    Chapter:9 113km peak -3:30 - 3:00
    Chapter:10 137km peak - 3:00 - 2:30
    Chapter:11 137km plus 2:30 -2:XX


    Would that be the rough ball park?

    Followed C9 for my 2:59 in DCM in October, want to attempt sub 2:50 in Belfast in May. Should I repeat C9 with just higher intensity or would I need to step up to C10?

    Thanks in advance!


  • #98
    blockic
    Registered Users Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭blockic


    sub3wannabe wrote: »
    Anyone who is familiar with the 18 week programs in this book care to hazard a rough ratio between weekly millage and target time?

    Chapter:8 88km peak - 3:30 -4:00
    Chapter:9 113km peak -3:30 - 3:00
    Chapter:10 137km peak - 3:00 - 2:30
    Chapter:11 137km plus 2:30 -2:XX


    Would that be the rough ball park?

    Followed C9 for my 2:59 in DCM in October, want to attempt sub 2:50 in Belfast in May. Should I repeat C9 with just higher intensity or would I need to step up to C10?

    Thanks in advance!

    I would personally think that a sub 2:50 is achievable from 70 mile week mileage peak, if managed properly.

    Check out RunForestRun's log on his Chicago marathon recently. He ran 2:50 off a 70 mile week peak if I recall, he might help you out here.

    That said, adding mileage is not a bad thing.

    Will be aiming for something similar in 2014 myself, best of luck with it.


  • #99
    roro2
    Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭roro2


    blockic wrote: »
    I would personally think that a sub 2:50 is achievable from 70 mile week mileage peak, if managed properly.

    Check out RunForestRun's log on his Chicago marathon recently. He ran 2:50 off a 70 mile week peak if I recall, he might help you out here.

    That said, adding mileage is not a bad thing.

    Will be aiming for something similar in 2014 myself, best of luck with it.

    I'd tend to agree that upping the miles to 86 per week is not essential to go to 2.50. I've run sub-3 off peaks of 50-55 miles/week, but where only the LSR was run outside marathon pace. I personally favour increasing the quality of the miles rather than just adding miles, but this is as much to do with time constraints as anything - in an ideal world we'd all be able to run for as long as we wanted. It's also down to making a judgement call based on your own experience. In saying that, I haven't followed any of the P&D programmes and I haven't quite reached 2.50 either!


  • #100
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    roro2 wrote: »
    I'd tend to agree that upping the miles to 86 per week is not essential to go to 2.50. I've run sub-3 off peaks of 50-55 miles/week, but where only the LSR was run outside marathon pace. I personally favour increasing the quality of the miles rather than just adding miles, but this is as much to do with time constraints as anything - in an ideal world we'd all be able to run for as long as we wanted. It's also down to making a judgement call based on your own experience. In saying that, I haven't followed any of the P&D programmes and I haven't quite reached 2.50 either!
    When sub3wannabe refers to changing P&D programs, that represents both an increase in mileage and quality, as both increase with each program. Having said that, I don't think you can quantify the mileage requirements for a particular target on a general scale, as it is unique and different for every individual. Sub 2:50 for blockic may lie in a completely different approach, while the solution to cracking 2:50 for sub3wannabe might be in repeating exactly the same program, joining a club, or building middle-distance speed and carrying it through to the marathon.


  • #101
    yaboya1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    I am currently following the P&D Up to 55mpw 12 week plan for Seville in late February. I was still relatively fit from running Chicago in mid-October when I started and am hoping it helps me improve from my 3:34:53 there.

    Link to training log: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057073987&page=3


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  • #102
    roro2
    Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭roro2


    Krusty_Clown wrote: »
    When sub3wannabe refers to changing P&D programs, that represents both an increase in mileage and quality, as both increase with each program. Having said that, I don't think you can quantify the mileage requirements for a particular target on a general scale, as it is unique and different for every individual. Sub 2:50 for blockic may lie in a completely different approach, while the solution to cracking 2:50 for sub3wannabe might be in repeating exactly the same program, joining a club, or building middle-distance speed and carrying it through to the marathon.

    In line with what I was saying. While general programmes serve a purpose and are a useful starting point, as you progress I think you have to use your own experiences and learnings to essentially come up with your own programme.


  • #103
    sub3wannabe
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭sub3wannabe


    Krusty_Clown wrote: »
    When sub3wannabe refers to changing P&D programs, that represents both an increase in mileage and quality, as both increase with each program. Having said that, I don't think you can quantify the mileage requirements for a particular target on a general scale, as it is unique and different for every individual. Sub 2:50 for blockic may lie in a completely different approach, while the solution to cracking 2:50 for sub3wannabe might be in repeating exactly the same program, joining a club, or building middle-distance speed and carrying it through to the marathon.

    Krusty knows where im at and seems to have an understanding of the book im working off. I know it seems like im just looking for the magic formula and that I should really go on feel and stuff like that, it's just that im still very much a green horn when it comes to running, never been a member of any clubs etc so I fear If I just start doing what I think feels right I may stray off in the wrong direction. The books ive read like Lore of Running and Advanced Marathoning really enlightened me and the programmes give me that craved structure!

    Anyway Krusty mate, you're a great asset to the forum and as a long term lurker have gained greatly from reading your posts. If you ran 2:50 off a peak 70mpw then that's good enough for me. I'm going to repeat Chapter 9 Advanced Marathoning programme with the required upping in intensity unless you think that isn't sufficient.


  • #104
    Trevster
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭Trevster


    Following the 55-70mpw program myself ahead of the Limerick Marathon

    Just one question. The final week. The Race Week column. When it says '(6 days prerace)' afte the weekly mileage total.......what does that mean? I'm having a moment.


  • #105
    Itziger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,012 ✭✭✭Itziger


    Trevster wrote: »
    Following the 55-70mpw program myself ahead of the Limerick Marathon

    Just one question. The final week. The Race Week column. When it says '(6 days prerace)' afte the weekly mileage total.......what does that mean? I'm having a moment.

    It means the total mileage you've done in the last week (the 6 days previous to your race) not counting the marathon itself. Feel free to add on the 26.2!

    It kinda presumes the marathon is on a Sunday!


  • #106
    Trevster
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭Trevster


    Itziger wrote: »
    It means the total mileage you've done in the last week (the 6 days previous to your race) not counting the marathon itself. Feel free to add on the 26.2!

    It kinda presumes the marathon is on a Sunday!

    Cheers. I was thinking the same. It could be phrased better however, as at first glance, I thought it meant run that total mileage, then take six days off before the race!


  • #107
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Trevster wrote: »
    Cheers. I was thinking the same. It could be phrased better however, as at first glance, I thought it meant run that total mileage, then take six days off before the race!
    It's a little early for taper madness!


  • #108
    Trevster
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭Trevster


    Krusty_Clown wrote: »
    It's a little early for taper madness![/QUOTE

    Eat my shorts. ;)


  • #109
    sideswipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭sideswipe


    Looking for some opinions/advice about tune up races for P&D.

    I had a tough 18 w/14@ mp yesterday and have my second of 3 tune ups next Saturday. I am considering the Tullamore Half but am a little worried about over reaching. The 18 week 55-70 mile plan I'm following recommends no higher than a 15k race.

    So the question is- do most people think racing a half 4 weeks out from a goal marathon is a good/wise work out?


  • #110
    overpronator
    Registered Users Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭overpronator


    sideswipe wrote: »
    Looking for some opinions/advice about tune up races for P&D.

    I had a tough 18 w/14@ mp yesterday and have my second of 3 tune ups next Saturday. I am considering the Tullamore Half but am a little worried about over reaching. The 18 week 55-70 mile plan I'm following recommends no higher than a 15k race.

    So the question is- do most people think racing a half 4 weeks out from a goal marathon is a good/wise work out?

    I've followed 55-70 and for me personally (everyone is different) a half 4 weeks out would be a little close for comfort. There have been plenty of threads in the past discussing the merits of racing in the buildup to a marathon, this is a good one.


  • #111
    sideswipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭sideswipe


    overpronator wrote: »
    I've followed 55-70 and for me personally (everyone is different) a half 4 weeks out would be a little close for comfort. There have been plenty of threads in the past discussing the merits of racing in the buildup to a marathon, this is a good one.

    Cheers, that was the very thread I was looking for! I thought it was part of a P&D related thread which is why I couldn't find it with my search terms.


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  • #112
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    Definitely drop the Sunday Long run if you run the Tullamore half.


  • #113
    yaboya1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    I have followed both the 55m & 70m versions of this plan in the past and have always completed the long run the day after the HM. I think ger664 is another advocate of this IIRC. Getting those 17-20 milers in on tired legs is definitely beneficial imo (mentally & physically). I think the general opinion is to do them, but don't worry too much about the pace and ease off a little if necessary.


  • #114
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    The book recommends not doing them if you race longer than 15K but I guess it depends on the person. I've gotten a lot more conservative in what I'd consider doing over the last few weeks.

    Half Marathon flat out takes enough out of me without adding on a long run the next day.


  • #115
    overpronator
    Registered Users Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭overpronator


    adrian522 wrote: »
    The book recommends not doing them if you race longer than 15K but I guess it depends on the person. I've gotten a lot more conservative in what I'd consider doing over the last few weeks.

    Half Marathon flat out takes enough out of me without adding on a long run the next day.

    Id be the same, I've done long runs the morning after 10ks on P&D but not after a half. I find I'm very prone to getting either sick or picking up niggles after a raced half if I do anything (at all really) in the day or two after.
    Obviously Yaboya and Ger are better men than me and I need to HTFU:pac::pac:


  • #116
    ger664
    Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭ger664


    overpronator wrote: »
    Id be the same, I've done long runs the morning after 10ks on P&D but not after a half. I find I'm very prone to getting either sick or picking up niggles after a raced half if I do anything (at all really) in the day or two after.
    Obviously Yaboya and Ger are better men than me and I need to HTFU:pac::pac:

    Never did a half as a tuneup race but did do some 10 milers. Would agree that a rest day after a raced half would be more prudent. Did 16 miles day after Craughwell Ten this year but had to insert a couple of rest easy days afterwards as the legs where in bits.


  • #117
    RuMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 469 ✭✭RuMan


    Just replaced the marathon paced Long Runs with 10 mile and Half Marathon races when i did it. In hindsight i probably should have taken even more time off after the half although all worked out ok in the end. Generic Plans are good guides but you need to pay attention to your body and not slavishly follow them. If you're in bits after a half last thing you should be doing is a long run the next day IMO. All depends on how you approach the half i suppose.


  • #118
    FBOT01
    Registered Users Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭FBOT01


    I am on my 3rd cycle of P&D 55-70m. I have never run a half as a tune race during any of the cycles. I did run the FD 10 last year as one of them and did the 17 miler the day after but went into the 17 miler happy to drop it or cut it back if necessary. It actually went fine and I had no issue.

    One of the main ones for not doing a flat out half that close would be that its not in the plan. If you go off plan and run a longer than recommended tune-up race then you should be factoring in that the plan is not designed for what you are doing. The mini-taper and recovery in the plan are too short for the distance you have chosen to race so both need to be changed or you are increasing your injury risk. Now your choice of race distance has meant altering 2 weeks of a 18 week plan. Why do it if your main goal is the Marathon and you choose your plan to help you achieve this goal?

    If you do decide to do it have a look at week 5 & 6 of the 18 week +85miles plan which covers a half marathon tune-up race and compare them to what your plan has either side of the half that you are planning on doing.


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