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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012
Comments
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hurler on de ditch wrote: »i agree gametime me arse its scores we need if he cant take them step aside let someone who can do it ,do it also he missed one out of his hand in between the frees should have been taken off them after second one dose not contribute enough from play can be thankful he plays for waterford ,cause he would have blown his chance in a kk team long ago ,handy free taker but we have tonnes of them
Is there any chance you'd spare us you're sh*t spouting for once? He was nominated for young hurler of the year last year. He scored 2 points from play against Cork without even playing well. Was an integral part of the UCC team that won the Fitzgibbon. He's only on his second year on the Waterford Senior team and will still be u21 next year. Who are all these other players that can do it that aren't getting a chance?
This is not the first time you've come out with something absolutely ridiculous, one can't help but wonder are you really that clueless or are you trolling!0 -
hurler on de ditch wrote: »i agree gametime me arse its scores we need if he cant take them step aside let someone who can do it ,do it also he missed one out of his hand in between the frees should have been taken off them after second one dose not contribute enough from play can be thankful he plays for waterford ,cause he would have blown his chance in a kk team long ago ,handy free taker but we have tonnes of them
The only valid point in your post, is that perhaps Maurice or Martin O'Neill should have taken over the frees after Pauric seemed to be having an off-day, in my opinion. As for the rest, perhaps you might enlighten us as to this mystical place of yours, where top class intercounty hurlers in the prime of their career can be found ready and waiting to walk onto intercounty teams, as even the KK management would like to know that trick!0 -
ouch say it as you see it,big deal 2 points from play,boys to men, its no coincidence that we have 2 all irelands in 130 years when we have hurley huggers like yourself waiting for all these fellas to come good some day,, live here and now,your not his little brother by any chance , troll me arse, your full of **** yourself, its freedom of speech ,grow a pairMountainlad wrote: »Is there any chance you'd spare us you're sh*t spouting for once? He was nominated for young hurler of the year last year. He scored 2 points from play against Cork without even playing well. Was an integral part of the UCC team that won the Fitzgibbon. He's only on his second year on the Waterford Senior team and will still be u21 next year. Who are all these other players that can do it that aren't getting a chance?
This is not the first time you've come out with something absolutely ridiculous, one can't help but wonder are you really that clueless or are you trolling!0 -
kk management know it already,you should know it as well or were you asleep for the last 10 years,the place im living in is not mystical its reality ,also the word perhaps says enough about your attitude towards the situation suppose if you were manager you would have given him another 10 just to get his eye inlovelypoint wrote: »The only valid point in your post, is that perhaps Maurice or Martin O'Neill should have taken over the frees after Pauric seemed to be having an off-day, in my opinion. As for the rest, perhaps you might enlighten us as to this mystical place of yours, where top class intercounty hurlers in the prime of their career can be found ready and waiting to walk onto intercounty teams, as even the KK management would like to know that trick!0 -
hurler on de ditch wrote: »kk management know it already,you should know it as well or were you asleep for the last 10 years,the place im living in is not mystical its reality ,also the word perhaps says enough about your attitude towards the situation suppose if you were manager you would have given him another 10 just to get his eye in
You're use of the English language is appalling. I actually cannot understand what you write.0 -
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hurler on de ditch wrote: »ouch say it as you see it,big deal 2 points from play,boys to men, its no coincidence that we have 2 all irelands in 130 years when we have hurley huggers like yourself waiting for all these fellas to come good some day,, live here and now,your not his little brother by any chance , troll me arse, your full of **** yourself, its freedom of speech ,grow a pair
A lot more than most are scoring. Maybe yourself and Deisebhoy should form a new management team, as ye seem to know of a hord of hidden gems the rest of us are oblivious too.
In all seriousness though, while I'm not claiming to know everything nor am I looking to deny people the right to say what they say, I have to be sceptical of some of the things you say. You questioned Mullane's commitment, that is just unthinkable for any genuine Waterford fan in my opinion. This slight at Mahony is also grossly undeserved. Also, what is a hurley hugger?hurler on de ditch wrote: »kk management know it already,you should know it as well or were you asleep for the last 10 years,the place im living in is not mystical its reality ,also the word perhaps says enough about your attitude towards the situation suppose if you were manager you would have given him another 10 just to get his eye in
Give him another 10 what? That would imply he's already had 10 something, he's been there a year.0 -
That's a ridiculous comment
Why is it so ridiculous?
He dosent always contribute a whole pile from open play so if hes off form with the frees then why should he be a certainty to start? The likes of Shanahan and O'Neill are just as good from frees on their day theres alot more competition for places than people above are suggesting. It seems here that because of of a fellahs reputation means you daren't give a negative opinion on him and god forbid drop him!0 -
Down at half time 0-15 to 1-7. Molumphy got the goal. Sounds like we are struggling to live with the Tipp forwards and living off scraps. Hopefully a few second half changes might mix it up. Brick at CB0
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Just heard that eoin mcgrath is warming up on the sideline. radio switched off0
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Maurice with a goal from penalty. 7 in it to Tipp0
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0-31 to 2-15. Not good enough, 31 points conceded. serious problems I dont care about injuries or any excuses serious questions should be asked after this0
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deisebhoy17 wrote: »0-31 to 2-15. Not good enough, 31 points conceded. serious problems I dont care about injuries or any excuses serious questions should be asked after this
Just watching the deferred coverage on TG4, after listening to the game on wlr earlier. 10 point defeat doesn't look too good, especially with Tipp scoring for fun, so in the vein of deisebhoy's post above, do serious questions need to be asked, and if so, what serious questions..0 -
Another heavy defeat today, we are way out of our depth it will be 1B hurling for us next year where we will struggle against teams that are making progress cant really blame management as we just don't have the player's we taught we had. The golden generation is long gone, a lot of work lies ahead and maybe we might find some decent player's in the future right now it look's like good enough for Waterford is not good enough to compete with the big boy's. Hopefully we can make some gain's at under 21 or minor, that's the way to go now because right now the senior setup will struggle for some time to come I wish Michael Ryan and his back room team all the best, coming into the Waterford setup when we are on a downward spiral is very hard. Beating Clare in our first game in the championship would be brilliant but another heavy defeat in a Munster Final would be a disaster. I know we were short some of our big player's today but so were Tipp so there's no point making excuses the paper's wouldn't be kind to us tomorrow so as I have already said let's hope younger player's can step up and maybe we will be able to compete at the level we got used to these past fourteen season's. Galway up next then Dublin I cant see a win there but I live in hope that has evaporated a little bit more today. The great Mick O Dywer of Kerry alway's said the League is for playing and Championship is for winning but heavy defeat's are draining any confidence we once had. The Waterford crowd were almost invisible today who will travel to Salthill next week of course lack of money is playing a big part there. Come on lad's give us a lift. Maurice was great today but our half forward line were cleaned out by a great half back line of Tipperary.0
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Re: league, I think today's defeat pretty much guarantees a relegation final with Dublin to see who gets the drop, or am I wrong in thinking that whatever we get from the next two games, that we cannot avoid a relegation final with Dublin. If that is the case, I feel we may be better off to be cute, and use the remaining two league games against Galway and Dublin to experiment, staking everything on beating Dublin in the relegation playoff decider.
Dublin seem to be in a better place, performance-wise, than us, but then again by the time it comes to a relegation decider, we should have a full strength squad available to us again.
In any case, just thinking out loud..0 -
mccarthy37 wrote: »we just don't have the player's we taught we had
Pretty much this. I don't think questions need to be asked, we just don't have the quality or depth that KK and Tipp have at their disposal. It's not all doom and gloom though which is easy to forget on the back of 3 fairly heavy defeats. There is some good young players in the team, but they're still young and people need to be patient.
Some good players still to come back too, will be a different looking side come championship but I'd imagine the results against Tipp/KK will remain the same and I'd also hazard a guess that some of the games we have been edging for the last few years against the likes of Limerick/Clare/Galway we may not keep edging!0 -
lovelypoint wrote: »Re: league, I think today's defeat pretty much guarantees a relegation final with Dublin to see who gets the drop, or am I wrong in thinking that whatever we get from the next two games, that we cannot avoid a relegation final with Dublin. If that is the case, I feel we may be better off to be cute, and use the remaining two league games against Galway and Dublin to experiment, staking everything on beating Dublin in the relegation playoff decider.
Dublin seem to be in a better place, performance-wise, than us, but then again by the time it comes to a relegation decider, we should have a full strength squad available to us again.
In any case, just thinking out loud..
They're my thoughts also, it looks like it'll be Dublin and ourselves in the relegation play off whatever happens so it mightn't be any harm just to give younger lads a run in the next two games and go all out for the relegation play off. Agree though that Dublin look to be even well ahead of us at the moment so it won't be easy.0 -
so is it a case for throw in the towel and give in to 4 defeats ,also give younger lads a run for what if there brought into a panel you should not have to give anyone a run ,you should know what there all about ,play your best 15 all the time ,kk won the walsh cup this year with 10 of last years all ireland winning team and brought on 3 that featured in the same match,they dont give fellas a run in kk you earn the right to wear the jerseyThey're my thoughts also, it looks like it'll be Dublin and ourselves in the relegation play off whatever happens so it mightn't be any harm just to give younger lads a run in the next two games and go all out for the relegation play off. Agree though that Dublin look to be even well ahead of us at the moment so it won't be easy.0 -
Poor game today, Tipp were nothing special but as has been the case with them in the last few years against us in the league they fall into a lull. The difference today was that there wasn't much of a fight from us. We were way off the pace at the start as Tipp raced into a 0-7 to 0-1 lead after only 10 minutes. Switches were made, with Brick moving to centre back and Moran switching to midfield (we lined out as per the programme). Things improved a bit then with Brick dominating for a while, but all in all the Tipp forwards found space way to easily. Noel McGrath was sublime throughout, finishing with 7 points and creating a countless amount!
After the goal by Molumphy (which was a scrappy finish, but typical of his workman like performance) we showed some fight up to half time. We had been cleaned out from puckouts and from the breaks but Moran came into it and caught a few balls. We got very little change out of the forward line all day and while Maurice Shanahan was the worst of them in the first 20 minutes, he was the best of them by the end of the day, finishing with 3 points from play and a goal from a penalty in the second half.
The forwards killed us in the second half. Every ball that went down came straight back up pretty much, which was in total contrast to Tipp who created scores very easily. The penalty was maybe a bit soft, though I thought Shane Walsh had a decent claim for a penalty before that, as well as Maurice Shanahan being denied one which was as clear as day (Shanahan syndrome I think came into play, to tall for his own good in ways) later on. Shane Walsh nearly scored a goal when he was spotted crossfield one on one by Paul O'Brien, who over hit the ball, but Walsh did brilliantly to beat his man but didn't have the finish to match.
It was very disheartening to see Eoin McGrath introduced as the first sub, I have to say, and when Shane Walsh was taken off for Tommy Ryan, with Jake Dillon having replaced Paul o'Brien, we were very light in the forwards.
The tactic seemed to be to deny Tipp goals at all costs, which we did but at what cost? The only time they did break through, O'Keeffe pulled off an unbelievable save.
I thought the puckouts were too high against a Tipp backline and Brendan Maher that just love high balls. Shane Walsh did alright considering he was only just back, but I can understand why he was taken off he was probably tired. Molumphy was outstanding, in terms of workrate he was at a different level to most and hurled well. Outside of that nobody stood out, and we saw more evidence of our failure to deal with Noel McGrath as he pulled all the strings. The communication in the backline wasn't good enough either, as too many times a man drifted into space and the nearest defender wasn't warned.
Bad performance, they need to start showing something or we will be relegated.0 -
lovelypoint wrote: »Re: league, I think today's defeat pretty much guarantees a relegation final with Dublin to see who gets the drop, or am I wrong in thinking that whatever we get from the next two games, that we cannot avoid a relegation final with Dublin. If that is the case, I feel we may be better off to be cute, and use the remaining two league games against Galway and Dublin to experiment, staking everything on beating Dublin in the relegation playoff decider.
Dublin seem to be in a better place, performance-wise, than us, but then again by the time it comes to a relegation decider, we should have a full strength squad available to us again.
In any case, just thinking out loud..
Dublin scored 6 14 against Kilkenny today I dont feel very confident0 -
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lovelypoint wrote: »I feel we may be better off to be cute, and use the remaining two league games against Galway and Dublin to experiment.
Is that not what weve been doing up to date? As far as I can see anyway. The worrying aspect for me today as per the previous 2 games is the apparent lack of hunger that was there under dare I say it... Davy Fitz. We looked like we were resigned to losing the game before we ever even got off the bus. There didnt seem to be any real belief or even desire to really go for it. We were very loose and seemed to lack any kind of ideas or imagination. Leadership was few and far between, apart from Brick. Moran and Maurice had their moments. I thought that as long as were being competitive Div 1A hurling will benefit these young players greatly, but performances as flat as that dont really teach you anything.
On the positive side the following players still have to come back into the reckoning; Mullane, Kelly, Connors, Foley, Paudie Mahony, Kearney, Seamus Pender, wayne hutchinson, o'halloran. Ill continue to trust this management team as much as i can that we'll be a different side come championship but my gut feeling isnt great0 -
hurler on de ditch wrote: »so is it a case for throw in the towel and give in to 4 defeats ,also give younger lads a run for what if there brought into a panel you should not have to give anyone a run ,you should know what there all about ,play your best 15 all the time ,kk won the walsh cup this year with 10 of last years all ireland winning team and brought on 3 that featured in the same match,they dont give fellas a run in kk you earn the right to wear the jersey
to hell would people ever give over on the KK examples!!! Ive had it up to here with it 'KK this' and 'you wouldnt see KK doing that'. it serves no purpose other than to shed a negative light on things0 -
I'm sure they will be very disappointed they didn't score 7 goals today. I heard one smart comment only 11 win against Waterford.In some people's eye's we really have gone back it seem'sMountainlad wrote: »Poor game today, Tipp were nothing special but as has been the case with them in the last few years against us in the league they fall into a lull. The difference today was that there wasn't much of a fight from us. We were way off the pace at the start as Tipp raced into a 0-7 to 0-1 lead after only 10 minutes. Switches were made, with Brick moving to centre back and Moran switching to midfield (we lined out as per the programme). Things improved a bit then with Brick dominating for a while, but all in all the Tipp forwards found space way to easily. Noel McGrath was sublime throughout, finishing with 7 points and creating a countless amount!
After the goal by Molumphy (which was a scrappy finish, but typical of his workman like performance) we showed some fight up to half time. We had been cleaned out from puckouts and from the breaks but Moran came into it and caught a few balls. We got very little change out of the forward line all day and while Maurice Shanahan was the worst of them in the first 20 minutes, he was the best of them by the end of the day, finishing with 3 points from play and a goal from a penalty in the second half.
The forwards killed us in the second half. Every ball that went down came straight back up pretty much, which was in total contrast to Tipp who created scores very easily. The penalty was maybe a bit soft, though I thought Shane Walsh had a decent claim for a penalty before that, as well as Maurice Shanahan being denied one which was as clear as day (Shanahan syndrome I think came into play, to tall for his own good in ways) later on. Shane Walsh nearly scored a goal when he was spotted crossfield one on one by Paul O'Brien, who over hit the ball, but Walsh did brilliantly to beat his man but didn't have the finish to match.
It was very disheartening to see Eoin McGrath introduced as the first sub, I have to say, and when Shane Walsh was taken off for Tommy Ryan, with Jake Dillon having replaced Paul o'Brien, we were very light in the forwards.
The tactic seemed to be to deny Tipp goals at all costs, which we did but at what cost? The only time they did break through, O'Keeffe pulled off an unbelievable save.
I thought the puckouts were too high against a Tipp backline and Brendan Maher that just love high balls. Shane Walsh did alright considering he was only just back, but I can understand why he was taken off he was probably tired. Molumphy was outstanding, in terms of workrate he was at a different level to most and hurled well. Outside of that nobody stood out, and we saw more evidence of our failure to deal with Noel McGrath as he pulled all the strings. The communication in the backline wasn't good enough either, as too many times a man drifted into space and the nearest defender wasn't warned.
Bad performance, they need to start showing something or we will be relegated.0 -
Interesting game, and result aside, found the game quite akin to open league games in past years with a moderate tempo, and one with accuracy and a little sharpness deciding the winner. That said, the importance of any league game this year is much higher than in years past, and the result really leaves us in a sticky spot regarding risk of relegation.
In all, thought it was a pretty open game, with league-style marking, and both sides letting each other play. I thought there were a few positives, despite the result, namely the performance of Stephen O'Keefe, Gavin O'Brien, Martin O'Neill, and Maurice Shanahan (around CF also). Brick has been returned home to CB, and Moran pushed up to midfield, solidifying us a lot from midfield back. Seemed to be a lot more fluidity in our play, especially with handpassing, and comfort under high ball. Of course, I would preface all those positives, by noting Tipp looked a little bit like a team playing a little in themselves, happy to let the accuracy of their forwards do the main work for them, and not have to question themselves.
Negatives are obviously the result, dooming us to a relegation playoff with Dublin no matter how we do in our next two games. 31 points too is a bit embarrassing, and Tipp never seemed out of their comfort zone, taking scores for fun. All a bit tippy-tappy really, and as a fan, would prefer to think if we had a plan to deal with Tipp, it was that we chose not to use it in the league, as opposed to being simply taken apart by them. Perhaps a little optimistic on my part, but we all need a little something to grasp onto.
So, where from here, really? I disagree we don't have the players, as we do have some stronger players due to return (Mullane, Connors, Kearney, possibly Kelly), but it is clear our less experienced players with promise need more time. For me, it is heartbreaking to see proven limited championship performers get gametime ahead of those breaking onto the panel, and that is my biggest problem with current management. Sure, many of these players may not be currently at the standard required, but they never will be, without gametime and a little faith by management.
In previous games, it was obvious we did not have a gameplan, from back to front, but with a decent keeper, Brick back to CB, and Moran in a more effective position, it was clear we had a lot more cohesion today than we displayed against Cork & Kilkenny. In all, we seem to be back to a tenable position with which we can build on, even if a lot more work now needs to be put in for a do-or-die relegation decider, and our championship opener against Clare.
The main thing we need now, in my opinion, is an affective gameplan to address our lack of possession and quality ball from midfield up. Brick was not the answer at CF, and we may not have a classic CF in our midst, so we need an effective plan to gain possession at half-forward, and also deliver quality ball into our inside forwards.
In any case, just some thoughts based on today..
EDIT: neglected to mention Molumphy above, thought he showed up very well today, using his work rate and intelligence to good effect.0 -
Ourselves and Dublin bottom of the table, both 4 points behind Cork, Tipp and Galway. Even if we win our last 2 games, we'd still have to make up a 27 point deficit for scoring difference and also hope that one of Tipp, Galway or Cork fail to get anything out of their last 2 games. It's going to be a relegation play-off.0
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deisebhoy17 wrote: »to hell would people ever give over on the KK examples!!! Ive had it up to here with it 'KK this' and 'you wouldnt see KK doing that'. it serves no purpose other than to shed a negative light on things[/QUOTE its what every county should be aiming for and you have to give comparisons0
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its likely that the Dublin game will decide relegation. Position is if we both finish in the bottom two home venue will go to the winner of the head to head. So realistically we need to beat them twice as home advantage will be huge.
I'm beginning to wish Davy was back. Dont see present management improving us one bit, the opposite in fact. Wasnt in Thurles but suspect the team are not playing for the management. Whatever Davys limitations were and there were limitations we never got three hidings in a row. I understood the need for a change of manager this year, but thought we should only do it if we got someone better, and I never felt the gamble on an unproven, untested mgt team was worth it. Cheap is always dear in the long run. What will we save by appointing a manager on his address;I fear it will come back to haunt us. If we're relgated for examples it has repussessions for sponsorship, gates etc. If michael Ryan was not good enough last year why was he considered good enough this year.0 -
parish girl wrote: »its likely that the Dublin game will decide relegation. Position is if we both finish in the bottom two home venue will go to the winner of the head to head. So realistically we need to beat them twice as home advantage will be huge.
I'm beginning to wish Davy was back. Dont see present management improving us one bit, the opposite in fact. Wasnt in Thurles but suspect the team are not playing for the management. Whatever Davys limitations were and there were limitations we never got three hidings in a row. I understood the need for a change of manager this year, but thought we should only do it if we got someone better, and I never felt the gamble on an unproven, untested mgt team was worth it. Cheap is always dear in the long run. What will we save by appointing a manager on his address;I fear it will come back to haunt us. If we're relgated for examples it has repussessions for sponsorship, gates etc. If michael Ryan was not good enough last year why was he considered good enough this year.
Because Davy didn't want to stay.0 -
as far as I know we never asked him. But that's immaterial now.
We have what we have but has there been anything positive about the new set up. In my oponion it has been one bad story after another. again I ask has there been one thing that we have improved, just a litany of bad judgements.
I know they have to try new things but in my oponion not one of the changes have been for the better.0 -
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parish girl wrote: »its likely that the Dublin game will decide relegation. Position is if we both finish in the bottom two home venue will go to the winner of the head to head. So realistically we need to beat them twice as home advantage will be huge.
I'm beginning to wish Davy was back. Dont see present management improving us one bit, the opposite in fact. Wasnt in Thurles but suspect the team are not playing for the management. Whatever Davys limitations were and there were limitations we never got three hidings in a row. I understood the need for a change of manager this year, but thought we should only do it if we got someone better, and I never felt the gamble on an unproven, untested mgt team was worth it. Cheap is always dear in the long run. What will we save by appointing a manager on his address;I fear it will come back to haunt us. If we're relgated for examples it has repussessions for sponsorship, gates etc. If michael Ryan was not good enough last year why was he considered good enough this year.
I agree with you 100%. Thats just the way it is now for better or worse theres nothing we can do just get behind them and hope for the best.
Theres a lot of talk about relegation playoffs here im not really concerned about that at all. we kinda knew that after the KK game really anyway, theres bigger issues than relegation from 1A to 1B as far as im concerned0
This discussion has been closed.
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