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why shouls same sex marriage be legal?

  • 26-11-2014 6:39pm
    #1
    yournerd
    Registered Users Posts: 4,159 ✭✭✭


    why should it be legalized after 20 years of no action?


Comments

  • #2
    wonderfulname
    Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭wonderfulname


    I'm not entirely sure I understand the question, what do you mean by "no action"?

    Why should marriage be legal at all? Why should same sex couples be treated differently under law than opposite sex ones?

    I'm struggling to pin down what answer you're looking for, is it that marriage gives rights, responsibilities and recognition to couples which should be afforded as an option to all? Is the answer simply "equality"? Or are you asking why now, as opposed to 20 years ago when the country was morally wrestling with divorce, the right to travel for an abortion in the case of a teenage rape victim, and removing "buggery" as an offence in legislation?


  • #3
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    Why shouldn't it be?


  • #4
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,736 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    yournerd wrote: »
    why should it be legalized after 20 years of no action?

    What does this question mean?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #5
    yournerd
    Registered Users Posts: 4,159 ✭✭✭yournerd


    sorry I am just looking for issues in relation to why was there a delay in legalising it when there has been same sex couples for years?


  • #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    yournerd wrote: »
    sorry I am just looking for issues in relation to why was there a delay in legalising it when there has been same sex couples for years?

    Erm - maybe because it has been heavily resisted? Is that not the reason for delay of such things all the time? If there was no resistance to it - it would sail through quickly surely?

    I feel I might not be alone so far in the thread in not quite understanding the force or core of your question.


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  • #7
    Ambersky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭Ambersky


    If you mean that you just dont even see any reasons why people could be anti gay marriage and are struggling to understand the problems people have with it because it is just incomprehensible to you, thats fantastic.

    It would be a long explanation though to put forward all the reasons over the millennia why many societies didnt have gay marriage but lack of understanding, fear of difference, a desire to keep with tradition and a fear of what might happen if people broke with tradition, various religious prohibitions, a view of marriage as being only about procreation, the idea that minorities dont matter or dont need to be included, would be starting points in understanding.


  • #8
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,125 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    yournerd wrote: »
    why should it be legalized after 20 years of no action?

    The issue of marraige equality is to be settled soon but other important legislation has happened in the interim.

    1993: the Unfair Dismissals act had several critera added to it, including sexual orientation

    1996: the Refugee Act allowed 'fear of persecution due to sexual orientation' to be accepted as a reason for asylum in Ireland

    1998: the Equal Employment Act listed several criteria where sexual orientation cannot be a factor when making a decision such as pay, contracts, promotions, demotions and membership of unions and professional bodies. Section 37 grants an exception to this in the case of religious institutes.

    2000: the Equal Status Act banned discrimination based on sexual orientation in a wide range of areas including access to state services and agencies, access to finance (bank loans and mortgages), access to buildings and places of business (cannot be told to leave a premises on the basis of sexual orientation)

    2001: the ammendment to the Health Insurance act banned discrimination based on sexual orientation

    2004: the Equality Act improved anti discrimination measures in the workplace, it meant that anyone could take action on learning of discrimination - not just people directly affected by it ie only gay/bi people as was previously the case. It also banned discrimination by association - straight people getting bullied for having gay employer/friends/colleagues.

    2006: the ammendment to the Parental Leave act stated that in the event of 'forced majeure' (paid leave from work due to an unforseen emergancy) the sexuality of the person at the centre of the incident is not relevant.

    2010: the Civil Partnership act (became law in 2011)

    Progress continues to be made, despite this being a long and slow process it is not true to say nothing has happened in the last 20 years. The marriage equality referendum is the next major step in an evolving process.

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



  • #9
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,736 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    yournerd wrote: »
    sorry I am just looking for issues in relation to why was there a delay in legalising it when there has been same sex couples for years?

    Are you writing a college essay?

    Many many issues
    1 Marriage has been mostly understood in western societies as the union of one man and one woman. Marriage between same sex couples is still very rare in most countries. Look at the UK - only just bought in there.
    2 Religion was still strong in the 1990s - look at how the divorce referendum nearly failed. We effectively had theocratic government for decades.
    3 Culture of homophobia - there was a strong culture of homophobia in Ireland which has lessened a lot - have you ever seen RTEs reeling back the years? They discussed decriminalising gay male sex in the early 1990s on the late late show. It was ugly. There were political protests in 1994 when IGLYO (the International Gay and Lesbian Youth Organisation) held a picnic in Glendalough.
    4 Education - Because of the religious schooling system we inherited in this country there was a pervasice heteronormativity within the schooling system which only ever thought children about Ann and Barry - Ann helped Mammy in the Kitchen and Barry helped Daddy in the garden. All the cooking and cleaning was always done by Anne and Mammy. Of course in the UK in the late 1980s The Thatcher government also banned school books which depicted Jenny living with her parents Eric and Martin.
    5 The law
    Marriage law is complex in Ireland. Its argued that marriage for same gender couples is illegal under the constitution although this is contested.
    6 Social and legal change
    Ireland is always slower at legal change - if you tell Americans or Europeans that condoms, abortion, divorce and gay male sex were almost all illegal until the early 90s they are always astounded but that is the issue - Irish politicians are slow to make legal changes on social issues. When condoms were first made legal in 1980 in Ireland by Charlie Haughey they could only be bought with a prescription. As Haughey said - It was an Irish solution to an Irish problem. Look at the David Norris and Lydia Foy cases - both took almost 20 years!

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #10
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,014 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    yournerd wrote: »
    sorry I am just looking for issues in relation to why was there a delay in legalising it when there has been same sex couples for years?
    I'm still not seeing where the "20 years" in the OP is coming from. Are you under the impression that there have only been same-sex couples for the past 20 years or so?

    I'm tempted to go into a "young people these days" rant, but I'll resist. Still, it's easy not to appreciate how radically general social attitudes to homosexuality and homosexual individuals and couples have changed in the past generation - and not just in Ireland. If we're only getting around to same-sex marriage now, it's because this is a process which has taken some time, and much work, and a good deal of patience, and a few setbacks along the way. Dont know if you got a chance to see the film Pride or if it's still in general release in Ireland (I'm in Australia), but it's a good reminder of how different life was for gays in the UK as recently as the 1980s, and of the challenges that faced the community then. You can take it that times were even tougher in Ireland. At that time gay marriage was probably not a priority for gays themselves; they had more pressing problems.


  • #11
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    yournerd wrote: »
    sorry I am just looking for issues in relation to why was there a delay in legalising it when there has been same sex couples for years?

    Why was there a delay in banning slavery or giving women equality?


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