FF Voters - Please apologise here.....

Cadet? · 15-10-2008 4:17pm

Biggins wrote: »

I'm personally hoping Libertas puts up a few canidates.

Is it possible to click a 'thumbs down' button on Boards?

RobertFoster · 15-10-2008 4:17pm

I don't remember who I voted for, so sorry just in case.

TBH, B-B-B-Bertie or even Fat Lips Calhoun Cowen have much more charisma than that moaning shrew from Castlebar.

From my point of view, FF and FG are pretty much the same. As much as I believe in green issues, the Greens appear too strict on necessary infrastructure. SF are too set in outdated ideals and probably couldn't run a race, let alone a country. Independents are powerless. Labour are a non-entity.

prendy · 15-10-2008 4:18pm

its not FF's fault the world is in recession.
why not give the budget a chance, see if it helps stabilise the economy. If by this time next year things have not improved then by all means shout for change.

Quazzie · 15-10-2008 4:18pm

See this is exactly the reason why I never vote. I aint apologizing for diddly squat!

raido9 · 15-10-2008 4:20pm

So people complaining about the Government / Budget / The Man, what would you have done differently?

Vegeta · 15-10-2008 4:20pm

snyper wrote: »

Lol.
Blame ff for world recession.

this country is full of gobshytes

I think this recession will be grand. Luckily in the golden years when they were swimming in money they gave us a great health system, schools which are in great shape and public transport/infrastructure is fantastic.............................................:p

recycle · 15-10-2008 4:23pm

Vegeta wrote: »

I think this recession will be grand. Luckily in the golden years when they were swimming in money they gave us a great health system, schools which are in great shape and public transport/infrastructure is fantastic.............................................:p

Yay. Your so right.

And Im just so glad to see that Berties rolling around in a 100,000 pound plus motor. I really think he deserves nothing less and its entirely necessary. I just hope were paying every shilling for his ride.

CAPSLOCK365 · 15-10-2008 4:24pm

How has anything FF done made it worse. they've reacted in the only reasonable way to the current 'crisis' and I, for one, salute them for it.

Did anyone see half the dail walk out on Joan Burton yesterday? Hilarious stuff.

Anyway, yeah, shut your face.

White_Feather · 15-10-2008 4:33pm

yesterdays budget was an absolute disgrace, but are people honestly saying that if enda '' i still have my communion money '' kenny would have done a much better job? he is always very quick to stand up and put the blame to everyone, ie calling for an apology from biffo for f ucking up and leading the country into a recession. The whole world is fecked for god sake, not just little old ireland. While I wouldnt trust any politition as far as I could throw them, I admit I did vote FF and no, I dont think I should apologise. No matter what party gets to government at the next election, they will undoubtedly make a huge f uck up again, or some scandel will make the papers. Its politics!

CAPSLOCK365 · 15-10-2008 4:36pm

It was no disgrace.
It was a top, top budget.

brianthebard · 15-10-2008 4:42pm

CAPSLOCK365 wrote: »

It was no disgrace.
It was a top, top budget.

By what possible standards?

White_Feather · 15-10-2008 4:42pm

CAPSLOCK365 wrote: »

It was no disgrace.
It was a top, top budget.

so your saying that the medical card being means tested is a good thing. Lenihan said that up to 70% of the over 70's will be approved for the card. How low of a salary do you need to have before you can be approved? It will end up that OAP's will not attend their GP / Hospital because they simply cannot afford it. Its always the elderly and needy in this country that get a kick in the ass. Still a disgrace in my opinion!

Heinrich · 15-10-2008 4:42pm

CAPSLOCK365 wrote: »

How has anything FF done made it worse. they've reacted in the only reasonable way to the current 'crisis' and I, for one, salute them for it.

Did anyone see half the dail walk out on Joan Burton yesterday? Hilarious stuff.

Anyway, yeah, shut your face.

Do you know how the house works? Those speeches are not off the cuff no more than the replies are! Labour, being a minority party in opposition will not have the same impact as FG. That also applies to Sinn Fein.

Now the current crisis is only one crisis if you are alluding to the global banking downturn. The other crisis is the building bust. That is entirely a FF mess and regardless of global or EC banking this was going to be a hell of a problem.

But as the other poster stated, thankfully we have a great infrastructure in transport, health, pensions and all sorts of goodies.

Amazotheamazing · 15-10-2008 4:48pm

Em, for all the FF'ers out there, you do realise the downturn in the Irish economy was happening before the Credit Crunch? Now, look at the reasons for this, for the most part, tax incentives to developers to build unsuitable housing at unsustainable levels, which of course, was a FF policy. Cowan and co. couldn't have prevented the Credit Crunch but they could have prevented the collapse of the housing market (or rather, should never have let it grow to such an extent in the first place). We now have nearly 200,000 people facing negative equity as a result of FF policies.

Frankly I don't care if Kenny is a boring, dull honest guy as long as he is capable. FF have shown themselves to be unable to run the country, whereas Kenny has seen FG grow by nearly 20 seats (iirc) at the alst General election, which shows considerable leadership ability after what happened FG when Noonan was in charge.

Rebeller · 15-10-2008 4:49pm

Fianna Fail (the absence of a fada is intentional) have been in power for 18 of the past 21 years.

FF, the corrupt, incompetent shower of gombeens and mawkish mafiosi are solely responsible for the crisis that we are now facing. International financial crisis me arse! An artificially created, FF supported (but paid for by us the taxpayers of course) property bubble, which has now predictably burst, is the primary reason for this recession/possible depression.

engrish? wrote: »

I would still vote FF.

And you would willingly turn around, bend over and take it up the arse after being orally raped I suppose?

engrish? wrote: »

Kenny couldnt punch his way out of a wet paper bag.

You seem to be missing one very important piece of information.......Enda Kenny is NOT in government!!!!

I am so angry now.

In Hungary in 2006 there were mass street protests calling on Prime Minister Gyurcsany to resign after he admitted his government had lied during the election campaign.

What do we get in Ireland?

engrish? wrote: »

I would still vote FF

I truly despair:(

CtrlSource · 15-10-2008 4:52pm

i don't blame the Government (this or the last) for the current mess. At least, i don't blame them completely. There is the not so miniscule matter of the global downturn. But...

FF say they're pro-development etc., but i think they have cynically favoured the fat cats in the construction industry (the guys creaming off the top, not the lowly construction workers) over many years and their budget yesterday is just a continuation of that.

The attack on low and middle income workers is very harsh and i think it is hard to justify. True, we're all in this mess together and should shoulder some of the burden, but VAT and other indirect measures should have taken care of that. They could also have stuck the 1% on to the higher income tax rate instead.

There was a guy on Prime Time last night (i think he was from the Sunday Tribune) who criticised the Budget based on the fact that it targeted too many areas. There was money being taken here, there and everywhere, with little apparent thought given to actually constructing a healthier economy for the future. His view resonated with my overall impression very strongly.

If too much money is taken out of the economy next year in tax, nobody's going to spend and things will get dramatically worse.

The excesses of FF / PD Government and their giveaway Budgets have made sure that we got many of the basics wrong in the last few years. So much of the wealth has now been squandered and primary school classes are now set to increase. What an utter disgrace

SheroN · 15-10-2008 4:53pm

White_Feather wrote: »

so your saying that the medical card being means tested is a good thing. Lenihan said that up to 70% of the over 70's will be approved for the card. How low of a salary do you need to have before you can be approved? It will end up that OAP's will not attend their GP / Hospital because they simply cannot afford it. Its always the elderly and needy in this country that get a kick in the ass. Still a disgrace in my opinion!

Incorrect. It's always the middle class who get the kick in the ass.

gillyfromlyre · 15-10-2008 4:55pm

People get angry in other countries when their rulers take them to the cleaners, we give them free drinks and sandwiches when the ignorant knobs visit the towns and cities. They blatantly don't give a crap about us 'peasants' yet you'd still get idiots saying they'd vote for the scum again. Them clowns probably got a public job through one of the scum tho, so there is a reason

kevmy · 15-10-2008 5:07pm

I hate the way people always say sure the other crowd are no better. I mean FF have essentially been in power for the last 21 years (bar 2.5 years of the Rainbow).
So how can people such rash judgements on FG + Lab then. Most of the heavy hitters in those parties have relatively little experience in Government. Also the Rainbow government was quite a good one and laid a lot of groundwork for the boom. We should remember that FG gained seats in the '97 election as the electorate deemed them to have done a good job but Lab collapsed as people blamed them for going back on their promise not to go into government with FF in '92.
Enda hasn't excelled as opposition leader but it is a difficult one to excel in, go to soft and people say that you are not landing enough punches; pull your punches and people say you're going too soft.
Recall if you can that Bertie was considered one of the worst Opposition leaders in his time but went on to have a long and popular period in office. The FG front bench has more talent, youth and enthusiasm than the whole of FF at the moment. A lot of lads marking time (Micheal Martin, Eamon O Cuiv, Willie O Dee), broken down old ministers (Mary Harney, Mary Hanafin), Cowen favourities (Mary Coughlan, Batt O Keefe) and geographical oddities(Martin Cullen)

ninty9er · 15-10-2008 5:14pm

recycle wrote: »

Yay. Your so right.

And Im just so glad to see that Berties rolling around in a 100,000 pound plus motor. I really think he deserves nothing less and its entirely necessary. I just hope were paying every shilling for his ride.

We pay for Garrett and Albert's chariots, what's the problem.

@OP: Why exactly do you expect people to apologise for voting FF?

edit: and wtf is with the fascination with negative equity....it means diddly squat to any homeowner.

Marcus.Aurelius · 15-10-2008 5:23pm

I think people are starting to realise that the celtic tiger was inevitable, that FF had no hand in creating it.

They are starting to realise also, that FF used the celtic tiger to spend billions on wasteful projects and corrupt deals with construction contributors. Their mishandling of the boom has led to the current crisis. While Ireland does not suffer any less than other countries, it is much less prepared to survive it. This is mostly due to the contentious mismanagement by FF with regard to inflation and utter greed in the construction industry, which was let run riot because of their connections to the FF hierarchy.

Nobody is suggesting for a moment that FG are any more moral or upright than FF, but they might be different. Even scared enough of losing to actually make a decent job of it. FF are just pigs in muck, they're happy with it and are in no real danger of being removed.

It's really frustrating to watch all our hard-earned money being squandered.

Amazotheamazing · 15-10-2008 5:24pm

ninty9er wrote: »

edit: and wtf is with the fascination with negative equity....it means diddly squat to any homeowner.

It means a fair bit if you want to sell within a few years of buying. It also means if you can't keep up repayments you can't hope to sell your house to clear the debt, as you'll still owe whatever the remaining sum amounts to. Course, that wouldn't be an issue if unemployment wasn't rising since people in employment should be able to afford repayments so long as interest rates are rising to a large extent, but unemployment is rising, and it's rising fairly fast too. Some people will want to sell and some people will be forced to sell, but all of those people will end up selling for less than they bought it.

Course, that means "diddly-squat" to FF, I guess.

Varkov · 15-10-2008 5:25pm

ninty9er wrote: »

and wtf is with the fascination with negative equity....it means diddly squat to any homeowner.

Jesus christ man! How out of the loop can you be?

Negative equity means that the amount someone is paying for their mortgage is worth more than the house itself. So it means people are simply loosing thousands and thousands of euro. How the **** can that mean diddly squat to anyone?

DonJose · 15-10-2008 5:27pm

Vegeta wrote: »

I think this recession will be grand. Luckily in the golden years when they were swimming in money they gave us a great health system, schools which are in great shape and public transport/infrastructure is fantastic.............................................:p

At least we bought the M50 tollbridge back for a bargain €600m of taxpayers money and only at a 50% increase for unregistered vehicles :mad:

Amazotheamazing · 15-10-2008 5:28pm

Varkov wrote: »

Jesus christ man! How out of the loop can you be?

Negative equity means that the amount someone is paying for their mortgage is worth more than the house itself. So it means people are simply loosing thousands and thousands of euro. How the **** can that mean diddly squat to anyone?

He's a member of young FF, you'd hardly expect him to have any cop-on would you?

Marcus.Aurelius · 15-10-2008 5:32pm

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

He's a member of young FF, you'd hardly expect him to have any cop-on would you?

If he's in the FF party, then he's cunning enough to dodge all the issues and nitpick the unimportant bits.

/wipes tear from eye

A FF stooge to the end. :pac:

ninty9er · 15-10-2008 5:35pm

Joker wrote: »

Nobody is suggesting for a moment that FG are any more moral or upright than FF

You're around here long enough to know that's bullsh1t

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

It means a fair bit if you want to sell within a few years of buying. It also means if you can't keep up repayments you can't hope to sell your house to clear the debt, as you'll still owe whatever the remaining sum amounts to. Course, that wouldn't be an issue if unemployment wasn't rising since people in employment should be able to afford repayments so long as interest rates are rising to a large extent, but unemployment is rising, and it's rising fairly fast too. Some people will want to sell and some people will be forced to sell, but all of those people will end up selling for less than they bought it.

So, I want to move house. I want to get a 4 bed semi and sell my 2 bed apartment. My 2 bed apartment has fallen 15% in value. The 4 bed semi has fallen 15% in value....it works out the same:rolleyes: Anyone in economics or financial positions that I've spoken to about this in recent weeks agrees. Negative equity is a nice phrase to instill panic in people to which it has no effect on so long as they can pay their mortgage. If the can't pay their mortgage, negative equity isn't the problem.

Varkov wrote: »

Negative equity means that the amount someone is paying for their mortgage is worth more than the house itself. So it means people are simply loosing thousands and thousands of euro. How the **** can that mean diddly squat to anyone?

No. They took a gamble, now they pay for it. The majority of people in Ireland aren't going to be in negative equity anyway, only people who entered the market at the top of the demand cycle.

DonJose · 15-10-2008 5:35pm

ninty9er wrote: »

edit: and wtf is with the fascination with negative equity....it means diddly squat to any homeowner.

We all know you are a brain washed FF'er, sure you are only following Daddy and Mammy who voted FF all their lives. I just can't believe the above SH!TE somehow exited the wrong orifice. Negative equity basically means that anybody who bought in the last couple of years has no chance of moving as selling their current property will leave them with massive debt.

ninty9er · 15-10-2008 5:40pm

DonJose wrote: »

We all know you are a brain washed FF'er, sure you are only following Daddy and Mammy who voted FF all their lives.

Do you know my parents, because that isn't a very good description; you must be a brain washed media junkie.

DonJose wrote: »

I just can't believe the above SH!TE somehow exited the wrong orifice. Negative equity basically means that anybody who bought in the last couple of years has no chance of moving as selling their current property will leave them with massive debt.

People owe the debt now, there's no point screaming over spilt milk, the whole issue is affordability, and contrary to the belief of all media junkies out there, the majority of people will continue to be able to afford to pay their mortgages

And I wasn't the one who brought negative equity btw. Read the thread!

Amazotheamazing · 15-10-2008 5:40pm

ninty9er wrote: »

You're around here long enough to know that's bullsh1t

So, I want to move house. I want to get a 4 bed semi and sell my 2 bed apartment. My 2 bed apartment has fallen 15% in value. The 4 bed semi has fallen 15% in value....it works out the same:rolleyes: Anyone in economics or financial positions that I've spoken to about this in recent weeks agrees. Negative equity is a nice phrase to instill panic in people to which it has no effect on so long as they can pay their mortgage. If the can't pay their mortgage, negative equity isn't the problem.

Oh dear, how will they get a mortgage for a new place if they can't pay the previous mortgage in full? If it weren't for negative equity, the sale price of their old home would cover the cost of discharging that mortgage and they'd be free to get a new mortgage for the new place. I don't know who you've been talking to, but they are either idiots or nodding along politely while thinking you are probably an idiot.

Course, you're also assuming the drops in prices are uniform across the board, but that simply isn't true, so it's possible your apartment will fall by 30% while your dream house remains relatively static.

FF Voters - Please apologise here.....

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