"Southern" Ireland... do you mean 'Ireland'?

skye · 10-04-2006 1:35am

North or South...?

djmarkus · 10-04-2006 1:37am

LOL, it was ment to be retorical but yeh!

Anyway i just think of it as the island of ireland, it makes things alot easier

skye · 10-04-2006 1:48am

Yeah, but unfortuately it is divided into two parts....being originally from the north perhaps I am more aware of that..."Oh you're from the North..." it's pointed out when I say I'm from Tyrone - and up home we refer to the South as the "Free State"...

jank · 10-04-2006 2:09am

The OP is right. Had many an english person say to me that they are never thaught this stuff in school and only hear/read about it in books here.

Our history books may have a bias, but there is bias and there is re writing history.

Overall though its good to see people discusing our history especially since the 1916 anniversary is coming up.

redmagic · 10-04-2006 2:38am

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

Officialy it's Northern Ireland and Ireland! Check your passport.

My passport just says "shannon airport"

djmarkus · 10-04-2006 2:40am

redmagic wrote:

My passport just says "shannon airport"

mm.. is that under british rule now? or maybe george bush bought it..

redmagic · 10-04-2006 2:43am

djmarkus wrote:

In my opinion it all depends on the context, the term "Southern ireland" would be southern quarter of the geographical entity being the "Island of ireland", there isnt a "Southern Ireland" in political terms, theres is just 2 political entities "Northern Ireland" and "The Republic of Ireland" aka "The Free State" (i had to add that in for a bit of controvery)

the Republic is the 'Free State'. When i travelled to NI, went through Derry and Belfast. All the barbed wire, cameras, and guard towers were scary and made me feel like the whole country was 'occupied'.

Andrew 83 · 10-04-2006 2:59am

The Republic of Ireland Act which passed through the Oireachtas in December 1948 and came into force on Easter Monday 1949 declares that 'the description of the State shall be the Republic of Ireland'.

While the IFA did rejoin FIFA to become the Northern Irish side, the Republic of Ireland title is catered for in the aforementioned Republic of Ireland Act and not just FIFA nomenclature.

JaysusMacfeck · 10-04-2006 5:33am

Defined in Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Ireland

:rolleyes:

redmagic · 10-04-2006 7:04am

djmarkus wrote:

mm.. is that under british rule now? or maybe george bush bought it..

What kind of question is that? are you trying to be funny or just a jerk?:)

God, i hope george bush didn't buy it! that'd take all the fun out of it!!

Slutmonkey57b · 11-04-2006 4:13pm

zuma wrote:

OMFFFFFFFG:eek: :eek: :eek:
I would have stared off into space in utter shock for a minute after hearing that, not making a sound due to the shock.
Then I would have walked out in pure disgust....!

Oh. My. God. Like. How. Gross!

**** beep beep beep beep beep ****
NEWSFLASH
**** beeb beep beep beep beep ****

The person behind the desk was probably "Joking", or possibly "Taking the piss" which is what "People with a sense of fu.cking humour" are known to do.

In fairness, there's nothing more amusing at times than quietly nudging the absolutely massive chip that a lot of Irish people have on their shoulder to see them foam at the mouth and flail around on the floor.

Isn't it strange though that people who have such massive over-sensitivity to phrases like "British Isles" tend also to be chronically abusive to English people? Yet they love the Scots, which is strange since the troublemaking Orangemen in the North are actually Scotsmen, not English.

Mr.Nice Guy · 12-04-2006 4:23am

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

Yet they love the Scots, which is strange since the troublemaking Orangemen in the North are actually Scotsmen, not English.

They're actually Irish. From the Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland.

Coconut · 12-04-2006 8:38am

I'm living in Stockholm now. One night I was out and an English guy (well dressed, well spoken) overheard myself and my friends talking. We got chatting, he asked where we were from...and his next comment was something along the lines of "Yeah, everyone loves Ireland, its, like, the fun part of the UK".
We were speechless...

Slutmonkey57b · 12-04-2006 11:05am

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

They're actually Irish. From the Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland.

People blame the English for the colonisation of Ulster by bigoted religious fundamentalists. My point is that the fundamentalists in question were Scottish, not English.

Flex · 12-04-2006 11:14am

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

People blame the English for the colonisation of Ulster by bigoted religious fundamentalists. My point is that the fundamentalists in question were Scottish, not English.

Alot were English I thought. Correct me if Im wrong here, but generally arnt people in the CoI (ie. Anglican Church) people with ancestory in England originally, and Presbyterians are people with ancestory in Scotland originally. I thought they came from northern England and southern Scotland.

biko · 12-04-2006 12:09pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

People blame the English for the colonisation of Ulster by bigoted religious fundamentalists. My point is that the fundamentalists in question were Scottish, not English.

The Scots were encouraged there by their English rulers. Also it was only a short leap across the sound to get to Ireland, easy enough for the poor western Scots to move over as part of the planned plantation, very much like the plantation of Jewish settlers in the West Bank.

Slutmonkey57b · 13-04-2006 2:07am

Not as simple as that. Scottish peasants were always far more under the thumb of their local laird than they were of the English crown. As evidenced by the different state of property law between England and Scotland. If scottish peasants were planted by the English rulers, then if anything they were being saved by local tyrrany by a more progressive English state - and being accommodated by willing Irish noblemen. The problem with the Evil English Empire is that in actual fact it was less of an empire and more of a willing alliance. It couldn't have existed, especially on military strength, without the willing participation of part of the conquered lands.

murphaph · 13-04-2006 2:41am

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

Officialy it's Northern Ireland and Ireland! Check your passport.

Under Irish law yes, but a person in Northern Ireland can quite legally and properly claim that it's "Northern Ireland" and "The Republic of Ireland". This is due to a thing called the "Ireland Act, 1949". This act of westminster parliament was needed following our government's declaration of a republic. The UK government believed it wise to stick with "Republic of Ireland" or "Irish Republic" as the legal names for the 26 counties so as not to offend there own british citizens in Northern Ireland who would not have liked the UK to recognise the name "Ireland" as being legitimate for the 26 counties to use as it implies an island of Ireland sovereign state which didn't and doesn't exist. So in summary, it's Eire/Ireland south of the border and Eire/Republic of Ireland/Irish Republic north of the border, hence the BBC use "Irish Republic". Confused yet?

Victor · 14-04-2006 1:36am

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

It couldn't have existed, especially on military strength, without the willing participation of part of the conquered lands.

All empires depend on their subjugated lands for support, most people just want to get on with their lives and will end up paying the same tax whether they are paying it locally or to the empire. Its only when things get out of hand do people rebel.

rogue-entity · 14-04-2006 3:56am

I can say that I have no opinion of the british themselves. I have no dislike for britain or its people. My opinion of its goverenment is a different matter entirely.

I am well aware of Irish history, and I cant understand why people in Ireland still have problems with britain today. What happened, happened more then 80 years ago, get over it people.

I like how, hypocriticlly, people in my school year used to love hassling some of my friends who were english, and yet had no problem speaking english or watching BBC, ITV and Sky 1. If those people, or people in general have such a strong dislike of the British, or indeed all things british, then stop speaking English and boycott english television and radio etc.

Now, I dont refer to britain as "the United Kingdom/UK" I always use the term "Great Britain/Britain". I dont consider "northern ireland" part of the UK per se, but merely under british juristiction.

I hate companies, particularly asian and american companies that group Ireland and Britain into the same "country". We are seperate countries with seperate currencies FFS. Asian motherboard makers and Expedia are particular examples of this problem. I already explained why an Apple computer in Ireland is more expensive then one in the US because they sell them at the price in GB£ converted into € which makes a laptop costing $2000 cost over €2200 instead of €1500. But Expedia are just as bad. They have there .com site and we went to buy tickets on it. We went to select our country on the list but lo and behold, Ireland was not listed. Every other nation on the planet was listed, bar Ireland (and britain). So we would have to buy the tickets on the .uk site. This would mean that instead of getting them 17% cheaper, they would be 45% more expensive. This is just not fair damit. Why cant they put Ireland into the same bracket as france or germany, instead of britain.

Eru · 17-04-2006 5:49pm

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

Wrong. Irish comes from Ireland. The Scottish language comes from Irish. The Scots came from Ireland!

Guilty of the same crime it appears.

Eru · 17-04-2006 5:52pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

They're actually Irish. From the Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland.

In Dublin?

palomca · 05-12-2008 1:13am

Sorry, but hearing a southerner say something along the lines of "no, I'm not southern Irish, I'm Irish" absolutely makes my blood boil!:mad:

As someone from Northern Ireland, something that annoys me even more (actually, INFURIATES me) is the fact that those in the Republic have the complete and utter arrogance to call their country just 'Ireland' in the first place, without any differentiator from the island as a whole.

In Northern Ireland we are as Irish as you southerners, but that does not mean that your state should try and pretend that you can sovereignty over the whole island (supposedly the constitution of the Republic was altered to remove this in response to the 1998 Good Friday Agreement).

I could even argue (in a partially tongue-in-cheek way) that in Northern Ireland we are more the true Irish than those in the Republic. We have not lost sight of our greater heritage within the British Isles (to me the identity in the south is more based on the flaky belief that you are 'not British' - this is undoubtedly true in modern political terms, but not in the greater geographical and cultural terms). Additionally, a large part of Irish mythology comes from Ulster.

If only those in the south would realise that there are a large amount of wounds that would be healed throughout the island if those in the Republic would have the decency to name their country in a much less-ambiguous fashion. Because of your choice to name your country in such an ambiguous way, we have unionist idiots here in the north that will not call themselves 'Irish', all because of the confusion that is caused by the shambolic naming of the southern Irish state. Prior to partition, all unionists/protestants would have called themselves 'Irish' - now not so. The only way they all will once more, is if those in the south have he forethought and intelligence to consider calling their state something more humble than just 'Ireland'. (I'm crossing my fingers here, but am not optimistic that the capability of that forethought in the south is actually possible...)

brianthebard · 05-12-2008 1:14am

palomca wrote: »

Sorry, but hearing a southerner say something along the lines of "no, I'm not southern Irish, I'm Irish" absolutely makes my blood boil!:mad:

As someone from Northern Ireland, something that annoys me even more (actually, INFURIATES me) is the fact that those in the Republic have the complete and utter arrogance to call their country just 'Ireland' in the first place, without any differentiator from the island as a whole.

When will ye northerners get that we just don't want ye???

mikemac · 05-12-2008 1:18am

OP, you need to realise that Ireland was oh but a tiny spec of the British Empire.
They don't learn much about Irish history in British schools, they know about the "potato famine" but realy not that much about it.

Sure why would they, as they learn about every other country in the Empire "where the Sun never sets"

They call it Southern Ireland and I'd say many don't know it's a Republic. But what's worse if you go up north and elderly people call it the Free State which went in 1949, they realy have no excuse

Don't worry about it

javaboy · 05-12-2008 1:19am

This thread almost predates the treaty.

palomca · 05-12-2008 1:19am

brianthebard wrote: »

When will ye northerners get that we just don't want ye???

As a northerner, I don't particularly want yous in the south either, but would like to think that we could both be equally entitled to celebrate our greater Irish heritage.

mikemac · 05-12-2008 1:23am

Victor wrote: »

Um, Chapelizod is on the northside (Dublin 8).

Chapelizod is Dublin 20!

Dublin 8 is full of junkies

riff-raff · 05-12-2008 1:32am

THe scots came from Ireland originly ..so we just invaded ourselfs
scotia is a roman term for pirate .. or for the Irish sea raiders

axel rose · 05-12-2008 1:35am

I admit that I didnt read all of the posts so this may have been mentioned before but I thought everyone knew that history in its teaching is biased. Its one half of a story. It wasnt too long ago that that the map of the world put Africa the same size as India.

I have a degree in geography and can honestly say that I never ever studied any aspect of British phsyical or economic geography. (Barring a brief mention in secondary school that many of our exports go there). I consider history and geography teaching a great big tabloid paper experiment.

"Southern" Ireland... do you mean 'Ireland'?

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