Armed Police in Ireland

EireGun · 19-03-2013 8:11am #1

I watched this video on YouTube of armed Gardai in Ireland (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aObal19T5zk), and now I'm interested. I just have a few questions regarding armed Police here...

In Dublin Airport, are there any armed units (like RSU/ERU) that are stationed at the airport? I can't find much information on the web, but seeing that Dublin is one of the busiest airports in Europe it wouldn't make much sense if there wasn't a dedicated armed response there. What about the other airports? I understand there are GNIB Detectives (armed?) at our airports, but are there any US/UK-like armed Police patrolling overtly or covertly? What about any Defence Forces personnel at the airport? Another question about the airport (and others), does Ireland have any air marshals at all? I read before that the ARW/SDU/ERU are the only armed units capable of carrying out such tasks. But how common, if all, is it?

Just regarding the embassies, are the security officials at the US & British (and other) embassies in Dublin armed? And are there armed Gardai guarding the embassies outside? What about US Pre-Clearance at Dublin & Shannon, are their officers armed? I've heard before that they are, but apparently according to the law they are not!?

And lastly, I understand the RSU does not operate in the Dublin region. Why is this, and when will the capital city have it's own RSU units?

Forgive my ignorance. Thanks in advance.

POGAN · 19-03-2013 10:28am

EireGun wrote: »

I watched this video on YouTube of armed Gardai in Ireland (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aObal19T5zk), and now I'm interested. I just have a few questions regarding armed Police here...

In Dublin Airport, are there any armed units (like RSU/ERU) that are stationed at the airport? I can't find much information on the web, but seeing that Dublin is one of the busiest airports in Europe it wouldn't make much sense if there wasn't a dedicated armed response there. What about the other airports? I understand there are GNIB Detectives (armed?) at our airports, but are there any US/UK-like armed Police patrolling overtly or covertly? What about any Defence Forces personnel at the airport? Another question about the airport (and others), does Ireland have any air marshals at all? I read before that the ARW/SDU/ERU are the only armed units capable of carrying out such tasks. But how common, if all, is it?

Just regarding the embassies, are the security officials at the US & British (and other) embassies in Dublin armed? And are there armed Gardai guarding the embassies outside? What about US Pre-Clearance at Dublin & Shannon, are their officers armed? I've heard before that they are, but apparently according to the law they are not!?

And lastly, I understand the RSU does not operate in the Dublin region. Why is this, and when will the capital city have it's own RSU units?

Forgive my ignorance. Thanks in advance.

I don't know how much information on operational strength for armed cover with Dublin airport as it sensitive information.

You are correct the regional support unit doesn't cover the DMR (crying shame) Managment felt there was enough arm cover within the region. There is no date or plan I know of for deploying them with the DMR, they would need to take them from other regular and traffic unit etc who are already overstrencted for resources

19-03-2013 10:30am

You are asking a lot of questions that can't be answered due to operational security.

EireGun · 19-03-2013 11:53am

Haha, don't worry I'm not a bad guy!

flazio · 19-03-2013 1:10pm

Sorry, I know who ERU are but who are RSU?

bravestar · 19-03-2013 1:12pm

flazio wrote: »

Sorry, I know who ERU are but who are RSU?

Regional support unit. AKA mini ERU's for the country lads

Mr Simpson · 19-03-2013 1:13pm

flazio wrote: »

Sorry, I know who ERU are but who are RSU?

Regional Support Unit, they patrol normally, but have the ability to go armed (Have weapons and vests etc in their cars). They are also equiped with Taser

knucklehead6 · 19-03-2013 1:14pm

Dublin is 23rd busiest in terms of passenger movement Europewide. It certainly wouldn't be regarded as one of the busiest in Europe..... Not by a long shot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_Europe

syklops · 19-03-2013 1:20pm

EireGun wrote: »

Haha, don't worry I'm not a bad guy!

Doesn't matter. Even the good guys with guns on the ground only know so much. Everything you are asking is need-to-know information, and you don't need to know.

seven_eleven · 19-03-2013 2:11pm

bravestar wrote: »

Regional support unit. AKA mini ERU's for the country lads

I see Regional Support unit the whole time, but I have never once seen the ERU, or even heard of them being used.

foreign wrote: »

You are asking a lot of questions that can't be answered due to operational security.

If that was the case then there would be no discussion on this board. It's not major secret. Alls he's asking is if there's a RSU/ERU unit in Dublin airport or not. Its not secret as to where the other RSU units are stationed at around the country.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say yes, there is probably an ERU unit available nearby but may or may not be stationed at Dublin airport in specific. I'm sure they have officers in Dublin trained to deal with aircraft and airport situations.

bravestar · 19-03-2013 2:31pm

seven_eleven wrote: »

I see Regional Support unit the whole time, but I have never once seen the ERU, or even heard of them being used.

Do a quick google and you will see plenty of instances where the ERU have been deployed overtly.

You see the RSU because the while point of them is to provide a uniformed armed presence. The ERU have a different role to play.

19-03-2013 3:06pm

seven_eleven wrote: »

If that was the case then there would be no discussion on this board. It's not major secret. Alls he's asking is if there's a RSU/ERU unit in Dublin airport or not. Its not secret as to where the other RSU units are stationed at around the country.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say yes, there is probably an ERU unit available nearby but may or may not be stationed at Dublin airport in specific. I'm sure they have officers in Dublin trained to deal with aircraft and airport situations.

I said a lot of the questions are not answerable. Are there armed units in the airport? The airport doesn't only handle people. Huge amount of freight goes through there too.

Armed members/staff on the US and British embassies? One of the most hated countries in the world and the other the sworn enemy of some 'ideological criminals' on this Island.

I think my answer is appropriate.

EireGun · 19-03-2013 3:33pm

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Dublin is 23rd busiest in terms of passenger movement Europewide. It certainly wouldn't be regarded as one of the busiest in Europe..... Not by a long shot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_Europe

Fair enough, but it's up there considering there are over 100 international airports in Europe. An average of 60,000+ passengers a day is a lot. I guess it also is quite large in terms of logistics?

EireGun · 19-03-2013 3:45pm

My main question really is why there aren't armed Gardai patrolling inside the airport on foot like they do even in Northern Ireland and Britain?

I know Ireland is a neutral country, but even still it's western, in the EU and has a large number of passengers and flights heading out to other major western nations. Whenever I go abroad to another EU country or America, you are immediately met by Police carrying H&K MP5 sub-machine guns and Glock side arms, etc. It's only then you realise how less equipped our own Airport Police are, they do a great job I'm sure but they are not even armed with Tazers, never mind firearms. With our own history of domestic terrorism, and being that we are surrounded by countries that have suffered major terrorist attacks on transport networks in the last decade and continuing attempts from foreign extremists, you would expect heavily armed police officers making themselves shown. Like they do in UK airports (below)...

Morpheus · 19-03-2013 4:58pm

Firstly, ireland is not a constitutionally neutral country and never has been.
Secondly, why need an armed response unit in the airport?
The Army Ranger Wing is the lead counter terrorist unit in the country and on hand and trained for these such incidents. All it takes is a call from the Gardai and a short helicopter jump from an army base to dublin airport.

all within a few moments flying distance from each other. That's before you think that the gardai or the RSU will be almost immediately on the scene as they are most likely minutes away on patrol or duty.

The order of escalating response teams depending on the event is most obviously as follows:
Airport Police
Gardai
Armed Detectives
Regional support unit
Emergency Response unit
Army Ranger Wing

The costs in maintaining a permanent armed presence in dublin airport makes little sense to me. when is the last recorded terrorist like incident in dublin airport that required an immediate armed response of SWAT team capabilities?

EireGun · 19-03-2013 5:51pm

Morpheus wrote: »

Firstly, ireland is not a constitutionally neutral country and never has been.
Secondly, why need an armed response unit in the airport?
The Army Ranger Wing is the lead counter terrorist unit in the country and on hand and trained for these such incidents. All it takes is a call from the Gardai and a short helicopter jump from an army base to dublin airport.

all within a few moments flying distance from each other. That's before you think that the gardai or the RSU will be almost immediately on the scene as they are most likely minutes away on patrol or duty.

The order of escalating response teams depending on the event is most obviously as follows:
Airport Police
Gardai
Armed Detectives
Regional support unit
Emergency Response unit
Army Ranger Wing

The costs in maintaining a permanent armed presence in dublin airport makes little sense to me. when is the last recorded terrorist like incident in dublin airport that required an immediate armed response of SWAT team capabilities?

Thanks. I meant neutral as in we are not upsetting any foreign nationals by engaging in any wars anywhere in the world (like NATO members), only peacekeeping.

I was wondering if there was Defence Forces personnel stationed at the airport, but I guess you've answered that. Helicoptered in from a base in Dublin or from the Curragh, I guess the heli would be given priority to land. But armed police would probably be somewhat quicker and they could also prevent an incident rather than just react to it.

I think the last armed incident (not terrorist incident) at Dublin Airport was last year in May (http://www.herald.ie/news/offduty-gardai-spark-airport-security-scare-28008560.html), just outside the airport grounds. Turned out to be a false alarm. It seems that armed detectives arrived at the airport from the city rather than coming from within the airport.

bravestar · 19-03-2013 7:49pm

Morpheus wrote: »

Firstly, ireland is not a constitutionally neutral country and never has been.
Secondly, why need an armed response unit in the airport?
The Army Ranger Wing is the lead counter terrorist unit in the country and on hand and trained for these such incidents. All it takes is a call from the Gardai and a short helicopter jump from an army base to dublin airport.

all within a few moments flying distance from each other. That's before you think that the gardai or the RSU will be almost immediately on the scene as they are most likely minutes away on patrol or duty.

The order of escalating response teams depending on the event is most obviously as follows:
Airport Police
Gardai
Armed Detectives
Regional support unit
Emergency Response unit
Army Ranger Wing

The costs in maintaining a permanent armed presence in dublin airport makes little sense to me. when is the last recorded terrorist like incident in dublin airport that required an immediate armed response of SWAT team capabilities?

Out of curiosity where are you getting this order of escalating response from? And when have the ERU called the ARW in?

An Cigire · 19-03-2013 8:41pm

Not to burst anyone's armed police dream bubble. But since the last round of Garda cuts there is a minimle Garda presence in the airport now.

Being honest it is extremly unlikely that there will ever be a permanent armed Garda swat type unit. The cost would come back to the Gardai who are unwilling to pay it. As far as im aware DAA has previously made it clear they would not contribute to the costs as they already have their own Airport Police Service.

The Airport Garda Office is now closed at night time and frequently closed during the day time hours also due to Garda staff being diverted to cover other parts of the H District.

Garda Immigration are also being replaced by civil servants immigration officers.

Effectively the DAA's own Police are the primary responding agency now a days cause of the above mentioned Garda cuts. You regularly see the Airport Police out on patrols, conducting check points on airport roads & responding to incidents.

The last armed incident as mentioned above where the off duty Gardai where firing shotguns in fields close to main runway where detected & dealt with by the DAA Police who requested Armed Garda support.

EireGun · 19-03-2013 9:06pm

An Cigire wrote: »

Not to burst anyone's armed police dream bubble. But since the last round of Garda cuts there is a minimle Garda presence in the airport now.

Being honest it is extremly unlikely that there will ever be a permanent armed Garda swat type unit. The cost would come back to the Gardai who are unwilling to pay it. As far as im aware DAA has previously made it clear they would not contribute to the costs as they already have their own Airport Police Service.

The Airport Garda Office is now closed at night time and frequently closed during the day time hours also due to Garda staff being diverted to cover other parts of the H District.

Garda Immigration are also being replaced by civil servants immigration officers.

Effectively the DAA's own Police are the primary responding agency now a days cause of the above mentioned Garda cuts. You regularly see the Airport Police out on patrols, conducting check points on airport roads & responding to incidents.

The last armed incident as mentioned above where the off duty Gardai where firing shotguns in fields close to main runway where detected & dealt with by the DAA Police who requested Armed Garda support.

Thanks. Not very reassuring news for the 20 million passengers that fly in and out of Dublin Airport every year!

seven_eleven · 19-03-2013 9:26pm

An Cigire wrote: »

The last armed incident as mentioned above where the off duty Gardai where firing shotguns in fields close to main runway where detected & dealt with by the DAA Police who requested Armed Garda support.

errr...care to elaborate or give a news source?

EireGun · 19-03-2013 9:27pm

USA

Canada

UK

Germany

France

Italy

Spain

Holland

An Cigire · 19-03-2013 9:35pm

seven_eleven wrote: »

errr...care to elaborate or give a news source?

The incident is mentioned in Post 16 there is a link to an evening herald article.

Honestly EireGun Ireland does not have the same threat level at other countries pictured.

EireGun · 19-03-2013 9:36pm

seven_eleven wrote: »

errr...care to elaborate or give a news source?

http://www.herald.ie/news/offduty-gardai-spark-airport-security-scare-28008560.html

kub · 20-03-2013 1:06am

EireGun wrote: »

It's only then you realise how less equipped our own Airport Police are, they do a great job I'm sure but they are not even armed with Tazers, never mind firearms.

Just so you know, The Airport Police lads are employed by the Dublin Airport Authority to provide security and fire coverage of the Airports, they are not as such Police men, they do not have the same authority as a Garda. Dare i say this but they probably have more in common with Security Guards than Gardai.

goldie fish · 20-03-2013 1:49am

kub wrote: »

Just so you know, The Airport Police lads are employed by the Dublin Airport Authority to provide security and fire coverage of the Airports, they are not as such Police men, they do not have the same authority as a Garda. Dare i say this but they probably have more in common with Security Guards than Gardai.

Uh Oh.
The Giraffes will be out in force now...

Mr Simpson · 20-03-2013 1:55am

Ah lovely, its a while since that can of worms was opened

An Cigire · 20-03-2013 10:18am

kub wrote: »

Just so you know, The Airport Police lads are employed by the Dublin Airport Authority to provide security and fire coverage of the Airports, they are not as such Police men, they do not have the same authority as a Garda. Dare i say this but they probably have more in common with Security Guards than Gardai.

I thought the DAA Police Officers where Authorised Officers under legislation the same as the Gardai?

goldie fish · 20-03-2013 10:30am

An Cigire wrote: »

I thought the DAA Police Officers where Authorised Officers under legislation the same as the Gardai?

Morpheus · 20-03-2013 11:25am

bravestar wrote: »

Out of curiosity where are you getting this order of escalating response from? And when have the ERU called the ARW in?

The ERU dont call in the ARW.

The Airport Authorities would firstly identify if Garda assistance was required and call in Gardai.

The Gardai would work through their own escalating response teams

Gardai
Armed Detectives
Regional support units

Confronting and disarming persons who were carrying knives or guns.
Saving a person’s life through use of a defibrillator which they are qualified to use
Providing tactical support to other gardai carrying out searches,
Carrying out high visibility static checkpoints and other operations to counteract the movements of criminals.

Emergency Response unit

Armed response in anti-criminal/subversive operations
Implementation of search techniques, including use of forced entry
Execution of high-risk warrants
VIP Protection
Provide specialist patrols as directed
Provide ground and air regional patrols
Hostage rescue

Now ill point out at this point that im no expert on Gardai ops but I do know that the RSU's provide support to frontline officers and dont believe they come under the aegis of the Special Detective Unit. the ERU on the other hand do - im always open to correction.

Anyway the garda authorities then would decide (if the threat is high enough) that military assistance is required, the defence forces ATCP (Aid To Civil Power) role.

At this point the military authorities would then decide if regular military units can provide the response teams for the threat level identified or if an army ranger wing unit should provide the security or a mix of both elements.

The ARW and ERU have and do work together both training and on the ground. The ERU have a good working relationship with the ARW and from time to time the ARW will provide some training to the ERU as needed and if requested.

The ARW provide the following ATCP capabilities:

Anti-Hijack Operations - aircraft, ferry, ship, bus, train.
Hostage Rescue Operations.
Airborne and Seaborne Interventions.
Search Operations - Difficult or dangerous specialist tasks on land or at sea.
Pursuit Operations over any terrain.
Recapture of terrorist-held objectives - Vital Installations, Embassies, Airports, Gas & Oil Rigs, Summit venues, Broadcasting and Government facilities.
VIP Security Operations/Close Protection of VIPs.
Contingency Planning to Counter Terrorist/Subversive Threat

Look, this information is out in the public domain if you google it hard enough.

Its getting away from the main topic, we dont need armed response units housed and maintained in a costly manner in the airport when I would reckon the nearest RSU unit is most likely minutes away at all times.

EireGun · 20-03-2013 8:26pm

Morpheus wrote: »

The ERU dont call in the ARW.

The Airport Authorities would firstly identify if Garda assistance was required and call in Gardai.

The Gardai would work through their own escalating response teams

Gardai
Armed Detectives
Regional support units
Confronting and disarming persons who were carrying knives or guns.

Saving a person’s life through use of a defibrillator which they are qualified to use

Providing tactical support to other gardai carrying out searches,

Carrying out high visibility static checkpoints and other operations to counteract the movements of criminals.

Emergency Response unit
Armed response in anti-criminal/subversive operations

Implementation of search techniques, including use of forced entry

Execution of high-risk warrants

VIP Protection

Provide specialist patrols as directed

Provide ground and air regional patrols

Hostage rescue

Now ill point out at this point that im no expert on Gardai ops but I do know that the RSU's provide support to frontline officers and dont believe they come under the aegis of the Special Detective Unit. the ERU on the other hand do - im always open to correction.

Anyway the garda authorities then would decide (if the threat is high enough) that military assistance is required, the defence forces ATCP (Aid To Civil Power) role.

At this point the military authorities would then decide if regular military units can provide the response teams for the threat level identified or if an army ranger wing unit should provide the security or a mix of both elements.

The ARW and ERU have and do work together both training and on the ground. The ERU have a good working relationship with the ARW and from time to time the ARW will provide some training to the ERU as needed and if requested.

The ARW provide the following ATCP capabilities:
Anti-Hijack Operations - aircraft, ferry, ship, bus, train.

Hostage Rescue Operations.

Airborne and Seaborne Interventions.

Search Operations - Difficult or dangerous specialist tasks on land or at sea.

Pursuit Operations over any terrain.

Recapture of terrorist-held objectives - Vital Installations, Embassies, Airports, Gas & Oil Rigs, Summit venues, Broadcasting and Government facilities.

VIP Security Operations/Close Protection of VIPs.

Contingency Planning to Counter Terrorist/Subversive Threat

Look, this information is out in the public domain if you google it hard enough.

Its getting away from the main topic, we dont need armed response units housed and maintained in a costly manner in the airport when I would reckon the nearest RSU unit is most likely minutes away at all times.

Thanks for that, but someone said earlier the RSU don't operate in Dublin, only outside it as it's believed Dublin has enough armed cover?

kub · 20-03-2013 11:42pm

An Cigire wrote: »

I thought the DAA Police Officers where Authorised Officers under legislation the same as the Gardai?

They are, a step up from security guards but a few steps behind a Garda. Not at all disrespecting these guys, in general they are sound.

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