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€14.56m Spent so far (Not including basic wages) on policing 'Shell to Sea'

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  • 09-02-2012 6:57pm
    #1
    Posts: 0


    http://www.thejournal.ie/over-e14-5m-spent-in-policing-protests-against-corrib-gas-pipeline-350396-Feb2012/
    THE GARDAÍ HAVE spent over €14.5 million on the policing operation at the controversial Shell refinery project in Mayo over the last five years, it has emerged.
    The figures do not include the basic salaries for Gardaí on duty at the protest site in north Mayo which means the actual cost of policing the protests is higher.
    Campaigners from the Shell to Sea organisation have been protesting against the construction of the Corrib gas pipeline for the past seven years.
    The Minister for Justice Alan Shatter said that the €14,566,262 in additional costs incurred by the Gardaí between December 2006 and December of last year was “deeply regrettable” and described the protests as “scandalous”.
    The details come from an answer to a parliamentary question tabled by Sinn Féin TD Peadar Tóibin.
    The €14.5 million figure is broken down into overtime and allowances, travel and subsistence, employers PRSI, and miscellaneous expenses incurred by the Gardaí over the past five years in dealing with protesters.
    The figures show that €913,729 was spent in additional costs last year. This was up from €620,326 spent in 2010 but down significantly on the 2009 figure of €3.5 million.
    In 2007, nearly €5 million in additional costs were incurred by Gardaí including €2.7 million on overtime and allowances and nearly €2 million on travel and subsistence.
    The protests have been notable for the sizeable Garda presence with numerous allegations from protesters that they have been assaulted including one by a Socialist Party MEP last August.
    This table given in the answer by the Minister for Justice provides detail of the costs incurred:

    “It is scandalous that some protesters behave in a self indulgent way that has no regard for the rights of others,” Shatter said.
    “In turn, this requires the expenditure of a substantial amount of taxpayers’ money which could be devoted to far better purposes if it was not for the actions of many of those involved in the protests.”
    The protests centre on the Corrib gas project which entails the extraction of natural gas off the northwest coast of Ireland by the oil company Shell.
    The construction of the gas pipeline through the area at Bellinaboy in north Mayo has drawn protest from the Shell to Sea group which argues that the pipeline poses a risk to local residents.
    A spokesperson for the Shell to Sea campaign told TheJournal.ie: “Again the Minister is doing what his predeccessor has done in blaming the protesters for what’s happening.
    “The fact is the behaviour of the police runs contrary to the national interest,” he claimed while going on to say that there what was happening was at Bellinaboy was “blatant economic treason.”
    An Garda Siochána said it would not be appropriate to comment on remarks made by the Minister for Justice.
    Shatter added that it was not possible to project what future costs would be incurred by the policing operations at the Shell refinery as the level of protest activity fluctuates.


    A spokesperson for StS was on TV3 news there and when questioned, "Do you see why people might be angry about this?" he replied, "Ehm.....not really.."

    I don't think these guys represent the national interest at all, or even a significant portion of it. Most definitely not 14.56 million euros worth. With their ongoing protest in Mayo and parts of Dublin and Galway being "occupied" to the detriment of local businesses what, if anything, can be done? Are we simply forced to pay, to grin and bear it, for the sake of freedom of protest? No matter how little support it has?


«1345678

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    http://www.thejournal.ie/over-e14-5m-spent-in-policing-protests-against-corrib-gas-pipeline-350396-Feb2012/




    A spokesperson for StS was on TV3 news there and when questioned, "Do you see why people might be angry about this?" he replied, "Ehm.....not really.."

    I don't think these guys represent the national interest at all, or even a significant portion of it. Most definitely not 14.56 million euros worth. With their ongoing protest in Mayo and parts of Dublin and Galway being "occupied" to the detriment of local businesses what, if anything, can be done? Are we simply forced to pay, to grin and bear it, for the sake of freedom of protest? No matter how little support it has?

    When i first read this I thought you where making it up. You weren't. Skip to 1:34 in the link. Outrageous.

    http://www.tv3.ie/news.php?request=&tv3_preview=&video=45240


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    When i first read this I thought you where making it up. You weren't. Skip to 1:34 in the link. Outrageous.

    http://www.tv3.ie/news.php?request=&tv3_preview=&video=45240
    It's worse when you see the way he said it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    It's worse when you see the way he said it.

    Not a bit of it.....Quite an impressive entry into young Criostóir's activist CV I should imagine....Image is everything these days,only thing missing from the interview was a suitable tent to peer out from.:)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Well I am sure the Gardai "are lovin it", all that overtime etc. Shell should be made to pay for some of the policing, IMO, just like football clubs in the UK have to pay for some of the policing, not that the protesters are right to disrupt a lawful activity, despite it being unacceptable to many.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Well I am sure the Gardai "are lovin it", all that overtime etc. Shell should be made to pay for some of the policing, IMO, just like football clubs in the UK have to pay for some of the policing, not that the protesters are right to disrupt a lawful activity, despite it being unacceptable to many.

    Well, usually a protest starts and then the public either get behind it and something happens or dismiss it and nothing happens. Then everyone goes home. In the case of 'Shell to Sea' the public have most definitely dismissed it as a cause, yet the protesters are still hanging around with nothing better to do.

    Is it because we are far too light in tackling unlawful behaviour such as this? Are we going to have lads camped outside our Central Bank for the next 5 years?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Well I am sure the Gardai "are lovin it", all that overtime etc. Shell should be made to pay for some of the policing, IMO, just like football clubs in the UK have to pay for some of the policing, not that the protesters are right to disrupt a lawful activity, despite it being unacceptable to many.
    Well that's the problem, it's a lawful activity Shell are doing.

    If a mob turned up and started attacking my house, should I have to pay the police?

    It's a disgrace, 14 million spent on a group of thugs who have no respect for law or democracy. The worst thing is they're laughing at us and are moving on to other "causes" in the country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    hmmm wrote: »
    Well that's the problem, it's a lawful activity Shell are doing.

    If a mob turned up and started attacking my house, should I have to pay the police?

    It's a disgrace, 14 million spent on a group of thugs who have no respect for law or democracy. The worst thing is they're laughing at us and are moving on to other "causes" in the country.

    Well, that's what a democracy means, freedom of expression, lawful of course. It seems a bit ridiculous that the protesters do not appear to get the message that the project is going ahead, and will continue despite their protests. Maybe they will move on to the anti-household charge protests, as there is a bit of mileage in that still?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Well, that's what a democracy means, freedom of expression, lawful of course. It seems a bit ridiculous that the protesters do not appear to get the message that the project is going ahead, and will continue despite their protests. Maybe they will move on to the anti-household charge protests, as there is a bit of mileage in that still?

    If it was a law-abiding protest, there would be no need for the gardai. Unfortunately, the actions of the protesters over the last few years has resulted in this bill for the taxpayer.

    They are a disgrace.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,423 ✭✭✭V_Moth


    Its all been said by the keyboard warriors before:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056544352
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056544831

    Why not just send the bill to Shell? It is their site after all...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    V_Moth wrote: »
    Why not just send the bill to Shell? It is their site after all...
    exactly


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭Yonge Street


    It's no secret that there is an underlying problem of career protesters in this country. Minister Shatter referred to them as participating in "protest tourism". The same people who are attacking Gardai at the Corrib site are the same ones camping on Dame st and who attacked American military planes at Shannon.

    What can we do about it? It's a touchy subject as the freedom to protest is a cornerstone of a democracy. However, a lot of these protesters are involved in criminal activity. Vandalising American military planes is a crime. Attacking Gardai is a crime. Those camped out on Dame street should be made undergo tests for illegal drugs in their system. Their dole should be cut too - how can they be actively seeking work if they spend all day shouting at passers-by through a megaphone? Protesting is fine but not when it's costing the taxpayer over 14million euro. Action must be taken now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    It's no secret that there is an underlying problem of career protesters in this country. Minister Shatter referred to them as participating in "protest tourism". The same people who are attacking Gardai at the Corrib site are the same ones camping on Dame st and who attacked American military planes at Shannon.

    What can we do about it? It's a touchy subject as the freedom to protest is a cornerstone of a democracy. However, a lot of these protesters are involved in criminal activity. Vandalising American military planes is a crime. Attacking Gardai is a crime. Those camped out on Dame street should be made undergo tests for illegal drugs in their system. Their dole should be cut too - how can they be actively seeking work if they spend all day shouting at passers-by through a megaphone? Protesting is fine but not when it's costing the taxpayer over 14million euro. Action must be taken now.
    I agree with everything you said apart from that, at least we have some people making a stand against the stupid situation in this country. As far as i know it was mainly students, however i dont care if it was doleheads or homeless people( no offence to any group ), more should be done in protest to the current $h*t thats being forced on this country, problem is most of us are trying to get by, have to work and cant go on protests, well at least until.............the inevitable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    What can we do about it? It's a touchy subject as the freedom to protest is a cornerstone of a democracy.
    There is no problem with peaceful and legal protests in this country, the only reason STS has cost us 14 million is that they turned violent. We're going to see the same thing in Leitrim, we've seen violence in Glen of the Downs and we've seen violence in Shannon. In fairness to the Dame Street people at least they are non-violent, but they are still occupying private property and breaking the quite reasonable law.

    I see this as a straight forward policing and justice problem - I've seen first hand how the French police would react to this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    hmmm wrote: »
    There is no problem with peaceful and legal protests in this country, the only reason STS has cost us 14 million is that they turned violent. We're going to see the same thing in Leitrim, we've seen violence in Glen of the Downs and we've seen violence in Shannon.

    Compare those to the policing required to remove the M3 protesters at Tara, a site with actual national importance (from a historical perspective).

    Apart from the person who (I think dug) a hole in the ground (destruction of property) there was none of the outrageous breaches of the peace that have been happening at other sites.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,898 ✭✭✭✭seanybiker


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Well I am sure the Gardai "are lovin it", all that overtime etc.

    That's the shot. Put the blame on the guards.
    How many of the protesters are even locals? What ever happened about the girl who did get raped in the crustie camp? Didn't see any protesters bang on about that. Granted I don't take much notice of them so hopefully that was sorted


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    It's no secret that there is an underlying problem of career protesters in this country. Minister Shatter referred to them as participating in "protest tourism". The same people who are attacking Gardai at the Corrib site are the same ones camping on Dame st and who attacked American military planes at Shannon.

    What can we do about it? It's a touchy subject as the freedom to protest is a cornerstone of a democracy. However, a lot of these protesters are involved in criminal activity. Vandalising American military planes is a crime. Attacking Gardai is a crime. Those camped out on Dame street should be made undergo tests for illegal drugs in their system. Their dole should be cut too - how can they be actively seeking work if they spend all day shouting at passers-by through a megaphone? Protesting is fine but not when it's costing the taxpayer over 14million euro. Action must be taken now.
    In fairness, so is torture. And acting as "Airstrip Two" while at the same time not joining NATO and claiming neutrality is typical Irish cowardice
    Those camped out on Dame street should be made undergo tests for illegal drugs in their system.
    For one who seems so devoted to law and order, it's odd that you want to arbitrarily suspend civil rights when it involves people you don't like.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,721 ✭✭✭pawrick


    The Shell to Sea campaign has given protests in general a bad name in this country and has a lot to pay for as now a lot of people's complaints can be swept aside as just the loony left at it again etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Shell should be paying for their own security instead of being subsidised by the state. Don't see what else could be done without some draconian laws that would have no place in a democracy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 51,485 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    10 or 20 slurry tanks are needed and after a few sprays they would leave.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    20Cent wrote: »
    Shell should be paying for their own security instead of being subsidised by the state. Don't see what else could be done without some draconian laws that would have no place in a democracy.

    Ridiculous.

    People have a right to go about their legitimate business without that business being illegally interfered with by ignorant louts. The Gardai have a responsibility to protect people and businesses from criminals intent on damaging them and their businesses and that applies to Shell as much as anyone else.

    Would you say now that the 16-year old girl shot dead in Tallaght should have had her own personal bodyguard?

    Would you say that anti-ODS protesters could go down and just rip up the hoardings and take away the tents that are sitting on public space in front of the Central Bank just like that while the Gardai stand idly by and let them? No, I am sure you would say that anyone who wants to remove the protesters should get a court order and that if anyone tries to do it without a court order that the gardai should stop them.

    There is one law for everyone in this country. Shell have not broken that law, they have a right to Gardai protection. The taxpayers have a responsibility to pay for that protection. It is an absolute disgrace that a small minority of irresponsible protesters have caused this bill for the taxpayers of Ireland.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Godge wrote: »
    Ridiculous.

    People have a right to go about their legitimate business without that business being illegally interfered with by ignorant louts. The Gardai have a responsibility to protect people and businesses from criminals intent on damaging them and their businesses and that applies to Shell as much as anyone else.

    Would you say now that the 16-year old girl shot dead in Tallaght should have had her own personal bodyguard?

    Would you say that anti-ODS protesters could go down and just rip up the hoardings and take away the tents that are sitting on public space in front of the Central Bank just like that while the Gardai stand idly by and let them? No, I am sure you would say that anyone who wants to remove the protesters should get a court order and that if anyone tries to do it without a court order that the gardai should stop them.

    There is one law for everyone in this country. Shell have not broken that law, they have a right to Gardai protection. The taxpayers have a responsibility to pay for that protection. It is an absolute disgrace that a small minority of irresponsible protesters have caused this bill for the taxpayers of Ireland.

    Is there a prize for the most hyperbole post with inappropriate analogies?
    Because if there is you got it!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    20Cent wrote: »
    Is there a prize for the most hyperbole post with inappropriate analogies?
    Because if there is you got it!


    This is getting tiresome, either debate the points raised (stop ignoring them or insulting the poster) or just stop debating.

    I could join in as well, start wondering about the current value of a full shilling and state that it is certainly worth more than 20 cent nowadays.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Godge wrote: »
    This is getting tiresome, either debate the points raised (stop ignoring them or insulting the poster) or just stop debating.

    I could join in as well, start wondering about the current value of a full shilling and state that it is certainly worth more than 20 cent nowadays.

    Have you seen the pipe?
    There is a scene in it where shell have to do some work in a farmers field. He didn't want this to happen went to court etc The court must have given shell permission to go on his land and dig it up anyway because they arrived with a JCB and loads of gardai. This was the guys private property but a private company was allowed to go onto his land against his wishes. The guy and his friends and some protesters didn't want this and physically tried to block it. The gardai ended up shoving their way through nearly crushing people behind a gate.

    As a respecter of property rights etc do you think this is ok?

    Don't know too much about the situation tbh but I think there is more to it than just people who enjoy protesting for some reason.


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    20Cent wrote: »
    The court must have given shell permission to go on his land...

    The guy and his friends and some protesters didn't want this and physically tried to block it.
    Just so we're clear: you believe that a person's desire to decide what happens on their property trumps a court order?

    Is this always the case, or only when you happen to disagree with the party that obtained the court order?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Just so we're clear: you believe that a person's desire to decide what happens on their property trumps a court order?

    Is this always the case, or only when you happen to disagree with the party that obtained the court order?

    You're trying to make me sound like a libertarian aren't you!
    I guess in some cases, that scene just stuck out for me in that documentary. But I'm still not for legal discrimination and white only bars if that's what you mean!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    20Cent wrote: »
    Have you seen the pipe?
    There is a scene in it where shell have to do some work in a farmers field. He didn't want this to happen went to court etc The court must have given shell permission to go on his land and dig it up anyway because they arrived with a JCB and loads of gardai. This was the guys private property but a private company was allowed to go onto his land against his wishes. The guy and his friends and some protesters didn't want this and physically tried to block it. The gardai ended up shoving their way through nearly crushing people behind a gate.

    As a respecter of property rights etc do you think this is ok?

    Don't know too much about the situation tbh but I think there is more to it than just people who enjoy protesting for some reason.

    You are ascribing a view to me on property rights. For your information, see below Article 43 of the Irish constitution. Have a read of it, in particular Article 43.2.2. Contrary to what many people think (including freeman's and other such rubbish), there is no unlimited right to private property. The constitution allows the government (and the courts) to place restrictions on private property in the common good.

    In this particular case, getting ashore our national gas is in the common good so it supercedes the private property rights of the farmer. I have no problem with that. Similarly, I have no problem when the state acquires land to build roads, railways and hospitals. In fact, I think that the law is sometimes too much in favour of the property owner and the NRA, in particular, has paid too much for land for road-building.

    In planning law, zoning goes to the middle of the road reservation rather than the edge, pushing up the cost of a road, which even if only on one side, runs through an area with development potential.

    In your case, the guy and his friends and the protesters were in contempt of court and should have been jailed until they agreed not to block anymore of the work.




    Article 43
    1. 1° The State acknowledges that man, in virtue of his rational being, has the natural right, antecedent to positive law, to the private ownership of external goods.
    2° The State accordingly guarantees to pass no law attempting to abolish the right of private ownership or the general right to transfer, bequeath, and inherit property.
    2. 1° The State recognises, however, that the exercise of the rights mentioned in the foregoing provisions of this Article ought, in civil society, to be regulated by the principles of social justice.
    2° The State, accordingly, may as occasion requires delimit by law the exercise of the said rights with a view to reconciling their exercise with the exigencies of the common good.


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    20Cent wrote: »
    Your trying to make me sound like a libertarian aren't you!
    No; I'm pointing out that the rule of law is the rule of law. If a court has ordered that Shell are allowed on that man's land, then Shell are allowed on that man's land.
    I guess in some cases, that scene just stuck out for me in that documentary.
    I don't think it was so much a documentary as a polemic; it was designed to make scenes like that stick in your memory.

    As for the "in some cases" hedge: Either a court order is binding or it isn't. Otherwise, who decides which ones should be obeyed and which shouldn't?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭Inclusion


    The truth of the Shell to Sea issue is Ireland had to sell the rights to a major company with the financial ability to get the oil out of the Irish sea. We can't afford that kind of major investment.

    That protest in Rossport is now just a magnet for dole tourists and protest tourists.

    It's our temperate climate.....:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    It's no secret that there is an underlying problem of career protesters in this country. Minister Shatter referred to them as participating in "protest tourism". The same people who are attacking Gardai at the Corrib site are the same ones camping on Dame st and who attacked American military planes at Shannon.

    What can we do about it? It's a touchy subject as the freedom to protest is a cornerstone of a democracy. However, a lot of these protesters are involved in criminal activity. Vandalising American military planes is a crime. Attacking Gardai is a crime. Those camped out on Dame street should be made undergo tests for illegal drugs in their system. Their dole should be cut too - how can they be actively seeking work if they spend all day shouting at passers-by through a megaphone? Protesting is fine but not when it's costing the taxpayer over 14million euro. Action must be taken now.

    while thier might be a very determined bunch of protestors in this country , thier numbers are incredibly small , irish people in the main are as fond of attending protests as they are of attending pioneer meetings


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    seanybiker wrote: »
    That's the shot. Put the blame on the guards.
    How many of the protesters are even locals? What ever happened about the girl who did get raped in the crustie camp? Didn't see any protesters bang on about that. Granted I don't take much notice of them so hopefully that was sorted

    the poster didnt blame the guards , that would be absurd but i have no doubt the boys and girls in blue enjoy the generous overtime for what is handy work , its not exactly mexican drug lords thier combating over there


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