Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

How much power can be got from a socket?

2»

Comments

  • #32
    Tuco88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭Tuco88


    For final ring circuits in industrial location the regs states that the conductor size must match the protective device. Does it mean the combied size in parallel for example two 4mm^2 is effectively 8mm^2 so permitting a greater fuse eg 32amp like the domestic situation? Or a 25amp must be used? If your to use the 25amp are you better off running two radials? Less risk of overloading...


  • #33
    tomdempsey200
    Registered Users Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭tomdempsey200


    Tuco88 wrote: »
    For final ring circuits in industrial location the regs states that the conductor size must match the protective device. Does it mean the combied size in parallel for example two 4mm^2 is effectively 8mm^2 so permitting a greater fuse eg 32amp like the domestic situation? Or a 25amp must be used? If your to use the 25amp are you better off running two radials? Less risk of overloading...

    yes
    I referred to that here
    I presume it means the cable is sized same as for a radial

    is that just for the EN60309 sockets?


  • #34
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Tuco88 wrote: »
    For final ring circuits in industrial location the regs states that the conductor size must match the protective device.

    I have never seen a regulation stating the conductor size in an industrial installation. In all installations the protective device must be sized so that it protects the cable.
    Does it mean the combied size in parallel for example two 4mm^2 is effectively 8mm^2 so permitting a greater fuse eg 32amp like the domestic situation?

    A ring socket circuit should be protected by a 32A MCB, otherwise what is the point?

    If your to use the 25amp are you better off running two radials? Less risk of overloading...

    In my opinion radial socket circuits are always better. In industrial installations my preference is for a 16 or 20A C type RCBO.


  • #35
    tomdempsey200
    Registered Users Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭tomdempsey200


    it's in the back of the rules..ring circuit conductor sized according to protective device

    its prob to do with the loading on ring circuits feeding en60309 sockets in industrial locations

    not any potential hazard due to loss of ring integrity


  • #36
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    tomdempsey200 wrote: »
    it's in the back of the rules..ring circuit conductor sized according to protective device

    Yes, I see it now.
    It makes me dislike rings even more :mad:


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    tomdempsey200
    Registered Users Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭tomdempsey200


    they are useful for long runs on final circuit's

    in large houses and ind/commercial

    sometimes the ring circuit is a better option


    and then on a bigger scale you have ring mains for distribution which are also very useful


  • #38
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    tomdempsey200 wrote: »
    they are useful for long runs on final circuit's

    in large houses and ind/commercial

    I have wired socket circuits in both over the years and I have never needed a ring circuit to do it.

    Generally industrial installations have sub distribution boards meaning that final circuits are relatively short.

    Anyway, each to their own.


  • #39
    tomdempsey200
    Registered Users Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭tomdempsey200


    2011 wrote: »
    I have wired socket circuits in both over the years and I have never needed a ring circuit to do it.

    Generally industrial installations have sub distribution boards meaning that final circuits are relatively short.

    Anyway, each to their own.

    yes the sub boards are generally close by in comm/ind

    but ime the runs can still be quite long
    compared to small domestic runs and the loading heavier


  • #40
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    tomdempsey200 wrote: »
    but ime the runs can still be quite long
    compared to small domestic runs and the loading heavier

    If the loadings are heavier you have the option of installing less points per circuit and installing 2 radials rather than one ring.

    In industrial installations I normally see 16A or 32A socket outlets for heavy single phase loads and in these cases only one socket per circuit so a ring circuit is out of the question anyway.


  • #41
    Tuco88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭Tuco88


    tomdempsey200 wrote: »
    yes the sub boards are generally close by in comm/ind

    but ime the runs can still be quite long
    compared to small domestic runs and the loading heavier

    Your on the ball, I just had a quick research. They must be they size of the conductor even if in theparallel use on an industrial/commercial use. Makes me kinda question there use now? Fair point tho most of the 110v sockets are ring in the plant im on. They still have a partical use in particular cases tho.


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Tuco88 wrote: »
    Your on the ball, I just had a quick research. They must be they size of the conductor even if in theparallel use on an industrial/commercial use. Makes me kinda question there use now? Fair point tho most of the 110v sockets are ring in the plant im on. They still have a partical use in particular cases tho.

    Exactly.
    If you read Annex 55A you will see that this only applies to sockets "complying with EN 60309 parts 1 and 2".
    What they are really referring to a "commando" types of socket outlets for heavy loads. In these cases the norm is to only have one socket per circuit!
    Frequently these socket outlets only have one able entry. So a ring is generally out of the question anyway.


  • #43
    tomdempsey200
    Registered Users Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭tomdempsey200


    Tuco88 wrote: »
    Your on the ball, I just had a quick research. They must be they size of the conductor even if in theparallel use on an industrial/commercial use. Makes me kinda question there use now? Fair point tho most of the 110v sockets are ring in the plant im on. They still have a partical use in particular cases tho.

    yes
    just keep in mind that ring final circuit's
    are distinguished from parallel wiring in the rules

    even though there's similarities


  • #44
    tomdempsey200
    Registered Users Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭tomdempsey200


    2011 wrote: »
    Exactly.
    If you read Annex 55A you will see that this only applies to sockets "complying with EN 60309 parts 1 and 2".
    What they are really referring to a "commando" types of socket outlets for heavy loads. In these cases the norm is to only have one socket per circuit!
    Frequently these socket outlets only have one able entry. So a ring is generally out of the question anyway.

    you could drop into an adaptable box
    above socket
    but if they're on a ring don't you have to fuse down at each outlet to match socket rating..I think that's in the rules somwhere

    that would make it impractical to use rings


  • #45
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    tomdempsey200 wrote: »
    you could drop into an adaptable box
    above socket

    Sure, but let's be honest although it is not against the regualtions this is not ideal.

    In industrial installations (typically) budgets are far larger.
    There is little appetite for saving a few quid by doing this.
    My recommendation (and what I generally see in these type of installations) is one socket per circuit when the sockets are EN 60309 parts 1 and 2


  • #46
    tomdempsey200
    Registered Users Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭tomdempsey200


    2011 wrote: »
    Sure, but let's be honest although it is not against the regualtions this is not ideal.

    In industrial installations (typically) budgets are far larger.
    There is little appetite for saving a few quid by doing this.
    My recommendation (and what I generally see in these type of installations) is one socket per circuit when the sockets are EN 60309 parts 1 and 2

    agree


  • #47
    Tuco88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭Tuco88


    2011 wrote: »
    Sure, but let's be honest although it is not against the regualtions this is not ideal.

    In industrial installations (typically) budgets are far larger.
    There is little appetite for saving a few quid by doing this.
    My recommendation (and what I generally see in these type of installations) is one socket per circuit when the sockets are EN 60309 parts 1 and 2

    That's a fair point, in most cases its an s.w.a glanced into the above commando socket. So if you were using the standard metal clad socket in a workshop area of the plant, are you allowed to use the 32amp lets say on the ring circuit using 2x 4mm^2? maybe the ring is not worth the hassle... what are you really gaining form it?


  • #48
    tomdempsey200
    Registered Users Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭tomdempsey200


    that annex only refers to en60309 sockets not 13amp


  • #49
    tomdempsey200
    Registered Users Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭tomdempsey200


    it's the norm for all ind ring final ccts to use larger cables anyhow


  • #50
    Tuco88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭Tuco88


    tomdempsey200 wrote: »
    it's the norm for all ind ring final ccts to use larger cables anyhow

    True, so there is nothing stopping you from using a ring circuit with 2x 4mm on a 32amp in an office lets say with the standard 13amp skt?

    Its they grey areas i do hate with the regs...


  • #51
    tomdempsey200
    Registered Users Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭tomdempsey200


    Tuco88 wrote: »
    True, so there is nothing stopping you from using a ring circuit with 2x 4mm on a 32amp in an office lets say with the standard 13amp skt?

    Its they grey areas i do hate with the regs...
    don't think there's any special rules for ind/comm ring ccts. feeding 13amp sockets

    ccc of conductors at least 0.67 Times rating of ocpd I would say

    if you're using singles cpc is sized same as phase and neutral


  • Advertisement
Advertisement