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Irish Palestine Solidarity Campaign

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    That's not totally true. Most of them will show up to any sort of anti-whatever rally.

    ..........

    Really? because the other fellow was saying that they don't get involved in anything else....
    Overall I think they do more good than harm though.

    Indeed. Until the invention of a foolproof gobshite excluder I think it best to focus on the issue, rather than speculate on the makeup of the organisations doing something useful in the world.
    Token101 wrote:
    Well, when I find something worth fighting for, I'll make my voice heard .

    ...apart from others 'fighting for something', about which you've been far from silent thus far.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    token101 wrote: »
    But none of that is really relevant here.

    Yes it is. You are just disregarding anything that shows you to be wrong.
    token101 wrote: »
    A boycott or sanctions should be a choice by those involved.

    They did have a choice. No one held a gun to there heads. Again plenty of groups of ignored the boycott on Israel.

    Also, you again show a complete lack of knowledge of how sanction and boycotts work. For example, the US and EU have used all kind of ways to induce other countries to sanction Iran, including various threats, which go far beyond a social media campaign. You have chosen to redefine sanctions and boycotts to suit your own position, and are simply ignoring how these things are done.

    BTW, the US enforces its sanction on Hamas by putting people in prison at times.

    Also, the fact that you seem to only be commenting on this one instance, is rather odd. Especially when you have condemned others for not condemning all sorts of other situation at the same time. Surely, you should condemn US and EU sanctions against Iran, and US sanctions on Hamas, where if you go against them you can go to jail. Surely, your position is simple hypocrisy, at least according to your own logic.
    token101 wrote: »
    That wasn't the case here.

    It most certainly was. The band decided the bad publicity wasn't worth it. You seem to think that this tactic is some how unique to this situation.
    token101 wrote: »
    This group were just bullied into it.

    I have yet to see a single shred of proof. Just claims of "venom" and not a single link to any of the tweets or comment online at all. The fact that no such links were provided, leads me to believe that the claims are being at best exaggerated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,050 ✭✭✭token101


    Nodin wrote: »
    Indeed. Until the invention of a foolproof gobshite excluder I think it best to focus on the issue, rather than speculate on the makeup of the organisations doing something useful in the world.

    ...apart from others 'fighting for something', about which you've been far from silent thus far.

    They're not doing anything useful. How is harrassing a band online useful FFS? What have they achieved with this stunt? If anything this sh*t would turn more people, who might otherwise actually support them, against them. It's the same with all causes, the fanatical few drive away the masses with their stupidity and do more harm than good in the long run. Just like Shell in Mayo, PETA, and all the rest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,050 ✭✭✭token101


    wes wrote: »
    Yes it is. You are just disregarding anything that shows you to be wrong.

    They did have a choice. No one held a gun to there heads. Again plenty of groups of ignored the boycott on Israel.

    Also, you again show a complete lack of knowledge of how sanction and boycotts work. For example, the US and EU have used all kind of ways to induce other countries to sanction Iran, including various threats, which go far beyond a social media campaign. You have chosen to redefine sanctions and boycotts to suit your own position, and are simply ignoring how these things are done.

    BTW, the US enforces its sanction on Hamas by putting people in prison at times.

    Also, the fact that you seem to only be commenting on this one instance, is rather odd. Especially when you have condemned other for not condemning all sorts of other situation at the same time. Surely, you should condemn US and EU sanctions against Iran, and US sanctions on Hamas, where if you go against them you can go to jail.

    It most certainly was. The band decided the bad publicity wasn't worth it. You seem to think that this tactic is some how unique to this situation.

    I have yet to see a single shred of proof. Just claims of "venom" and not a single link to any of the tweets or comment online at all. The fact that no such links were provided, leads me to believe that the claims are being at best exaggerated.

    And has any of this stopped the settlement building?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    token101 wrote: »
    And has any of this stopped the settlement building?

    ...one could raise the same issue with regard to any protest until its success or definitive failure.

    Besides - I thought you didn't care?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    wes wrote: »
    The band decided the bad publicity wasn't worth it.

    Where does the article say that?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    token101 wrote: »
    And has any of this stopped the settlement building?

    Where did anyone say that a BDS campaign would work over night? Oh wait, no one said that. In fact, no campaign of sanctions or boycott is expected to work over night. The US and EU certainly don't expect the sanctions against Iran to work over night. Its slow and drawn out process, and btw sanctions and boycotts aren't the sole thing being done either. They tend to be other measures going on at the same time as well.

    Again, you clearly show that you haven't a clue what your talking about and are just annoyed with people who do things. Personally, I find the fact that so exercised by stuff you claim to not care about highly amusing. BTW, what have you post achieved? Have they ended the boycott campaign against anyone? Oh wait they didn't. So maybe you ought to stop posting, if you are to follow your own logic.

    Still waiting for you to condemn every other BDS and sanctions campaign the world over (some that involve actual bullying, like being imprisoned, killed or maimed). After all, according to you, you have to condemn a whole bunch of other stuff...... right?

    Also, you have purposefully ignored most of what i said, and haven't provided a single example of the bullying you claimed happened, which occurred online, so the fact that not a single link has been provided after 5 pages is rather astonishing to me, and fact that you ignored request for an example doubly so. In fact the article from the OP doesn't provide a single example either, what we have is 2 different groups making opposing claims.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 919 ✭✭✭Pedant


    Why a cultural boycott though? It's not as though Dervish or the like would have been performing in front of the Israeli government. A cultural boycott of Israel is like boycotting the people of Israel, as opposed to the government of Israel. It's the same with the proposed academic boycott of Israel; it's a boycott on the people of Israel rather than the government of Israel.

    Some of these Palestinian "solidarity" movements come across as anti-intellectual thugs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Where does the article say that?

    There was a social media campaign against them, which is bad publicity, and they claimed due to this campaign they decided to cancel there concert.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,641 ✭✭✭Teyla Emmagan


    Dervish (whoever they are) should have gone ahead and travelled to Israel. Letting yourself be pushed around by people who employ these sort of tactics can never be a good thing. Disgusting behaviour.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,819 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Pedant wrote: »
    Why a cultural boycott though? It's not as though Dervish or the like would have been performing in front of the Israeli government. A cultural boycott of Israel is like boycotting the people of Israel, as opposed to the government of Israel. It's the same with the proposed academic boycott of Israel; it's a boycott on the people of Israel rather than the government of Israel.

    Some of these Palestinian "solidarity" movements come across as anti-intellectual thugs.

    Military service is compulsory for both sexes in Israel, so any sort of boycott hits all those who serve/have served in Israel's military forces that illegally occupy Palestinian land and are carrying out a low level campaign of ethnic cleansing in the West Bank as well making life a living hell for those living in Gaza.

    But, yeah, shame on those trying to do something about it in a peaceful manner. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,641 ✭✭✭Teyla Emmagan


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    But, yeah, shame on those trying to do something about it in a peaceful manner. :rolleyes:

    Subjecting a bunch of musicians to a 'venomous torrent' of abuse in the media does not equate to behaving in a 'peaceful manner' in my opinion.

    :rolleyes: yourself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,819 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Subjecting a bunch of musicians to a 'venomous torrent' of abuse in the media does not equate to behaving in a 'peaceful manner' in my opinion.

    :rolleyes: yourself.

    Can you point us towards all this "venomous torment" of abuse? :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,641 ✭✭✭Teyla Emmagan


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Can you point us towards all this "venomous torment" of abuse? :rolleyes:

    Dervish's description, not mine.

    Here you go: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0504/1224315593067.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,819 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3



    So there is no link, but now this no mark band is getting publicity.

    Convenient.


  • Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    bah, a shame.
    I was planning on buying a ticket.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    bah, a shame.
    I was planning on buying a ticket.

    Take Jedward as a consolation, on the condition that you keep them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,641 ✭✭✭Teyla Emmagan


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    So there is no link, but now this no mark band is getting publicity.

    Convenient.

    Ah, come on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    Morlar wrote: »
    Take Jedward as a consolation, on the condition that you keep them.

    Well, I have no idea who they are, but I don't mind seeing Riverdance, or LOTD again when they come, though they are a bit expensive.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Well, I have no idea who they are,

    Google is your friend :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    wes wrote: »
    There was a social media campaign against them, which is bad publicity, and they claimed due to this campaign they decided to cancel there concert.

    So the answer to my question is nowhere?


  • Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    Morlar wrote: »
    Google is your friend :)

    Not exactly my type heh.. I prefer something a bit more "Irish traditional".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Battered Mars Bar


    Bin laden was delighted with the Irish Palestine solidarity, I don't recall myself saying that I supported Palestine but there ya go.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,032 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    These people are anti-democracy and anti freedom of choice. Most of them belong to socialist and IRA supporting groups

    explain how they are anti democracy and the Israeli occupation of Palestine isn't

    I don't respond to whataboutery. Judge every single scenario individualy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Toby Take a Bow


    Dervish (whoever they are) should have gone ahead and travelled to Israel. Letting yourself be pushed around by people who employ these sort of tactics can never be a good thing. Disgusting behaviour.

    Aye. It's like in the 80s and how the ANC tried to bully Paul Simon when he was trying to record Graceland. The important thing is not that the ANC viewed Simon's breaking of the boycott as incredibly damaging to their movement, but that Paul Simon managed to record a critically acclaimed album which made a lot of money, while damaging future prospects for the people who were opressed.

    We'll just take their word on this, then? Seems like Dervish might be taking a leaf from Paul Simon's book.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,641 ✭✭✭Teyla Emmagan


    Aye. It's like in the 80s and how the ANC tried to bully Paul Simon when he was trying to record Graceland. The important thing is not that the ANC viewed Simon's breaking of the boycott as incredibly damaging to their movement, but that Paul Simon managed to record a critically acclaimed album which made a lot of money, while damaging future prospects for the people who were opressed.

    We'll just take their word on this, then? Seems like Dervish might be taking a leaf from Paul Simon's book.

    Well I didn't extensively research the alleged abuse myself, but I presume that whoever wrote the article about them in the Irish Times, and in today's Sindo and in several other places did. Perhaps naive, but I don't see anywhere else online except for this thread that suggests we are all having the wool pulled over our eyes by a bunch of self promoting traditional music marketeers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    Bin laden was delighted with the Irish Palestine solidarity, I don't recall myself saying that I supported Palestine but there ya go.

    Nice bedfellows indeed...:rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭Joko


    From the OP article:
    Among those who wrote on the band’s website was Dr Raymond Deane, the founder of the boycott campaign, who warned the band that it would have “lost all credibility” if it had played in Israel.

    This is the wanker who had his **** "music" on the leaving cert music course:



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Toby Take a Bow


    Well I didn't extensively research the alleged abuse myself, but I presume that whoever wrote the article about them in the Irish Times, and in today's Sindo and in several other places did. Perhaps naive, but I don't see anywhere else online except for this thread that suggests we are all having the wool pulled over our eyes by a bunch of self promoting traditional music marketeers.

    A quick glance over their Facebook page and the only negative comments seem to be directed specifically at their announcement that they're pulling out. Unless they deleted the original comments. Any other comments are generally positive. Mention of Israel and the status 'likes' and 'comments' increase by some 300% on other non-Israeli related updates.

    Regardless of whether this is true or not (like I say, it was only a cursory glance) it's always good to be cynical. Especially when it comes to the type of journalism that the IT regularly pedal.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    These people are anti-democracy and anti freedom of choice. Most of them belong to socialist and IRA supporting groups

    The last time I checked, Freedom of Speech, Freedom to Dissent and Freedom to Protest were wholeheartedly democratic ideals.
    Ironic, as there seems to be quite an undertone in this thread suggesting that this protest shouldn't have been allowed, or that the social media campaign was doing something wrong by speaking freely.

    Now have a go again, who exactly is anti-democracy...?


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