Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

The superhero movie thing needs to stop...

Options
245

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    Brief_Lives
    Registered Users Posts: 2,853 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    Adamantium wrote: »
    At least the western was more grounded and (could) be a little less of a power fantasy.

    Found this fantastic post on the Watchmen IMDB page summing up this era of popular cinema trends:

    that quote was a nice find, and it echoes my sentiments exactly.... (maybe replacing Superman returns with The first x-men or days of future past,.. both were outstanding).


  • Options
    #33
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    ScumLord wrote: »
    The worst thing about superhero movies is they keep rebooting, so their essentially telling the same part of the superhero story over and over again with different actors.

    There's essentially no need to show the origins story for Batman, Superman or spiderman ever again. Any time I see reboot I lose interest because I've seen that film already.

    Wait now, I think that's a crime guilty of the comics industry full-stop; it certainly can't be laid at the feat of cinema. How many times has Batman been rebooted, retconned, had history simply forgotten, been sent to an alternate dimension, 'what-if'ed and generally had the mythology given a once over in the funny pages? Hell, no better example of the corruption of narrative in comics than the infamous 'death' of Superman, whose story arguably killed death itself from comics. If Superman can rise from the grave, why not anyone else?

    We might cry and complain about Hollywood's endless desire to reboot cherished classics, but that medium has nothing on DC and Marvel: they've made a business plan from that mentality. Ultimately I worry that Marvel's dogged desire to interlink ALL their franchises will eventually cause the same net effect that happened with their comics, which to me are an incomprehensible and suffocating clusterf*ck of contradictory mythologies, worldspaces, and narratives. Impenetrable at worst and bewildering at best.

    As for the numbers of superher films, well it has already been said that comicbook films make up the slim minority of overall output: declaring that this is why you don't go to the cinema is silly. Jersey Shore airs on MTV, but I still watch TV.

    It must be said they do dominate the summer / blockbuster schedules and that's a concern. Why take a chance on an original IP when you can simply adapt another comic. Then again, Edge of Tomorrow was one of these adaptations and one of the best blockbuster films of the summer, so it's not all bad if the studio make an effort. Pity it tanked, cos it deserved much more.


  • Options
    #34
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Adamantium wrote: »
    At least the western was more grounded and (could) be a little less of a power fantasy.
    Every Generation has it's wave of success with certain genres of film.

    In the late 1930s-1950s it was EPIC (4 hour) movies like "Lawrence of Arabia" "Gone with the Wind" "Ben-Hur" etc...
    In the 1960s-1970s it was Westerns usually featuring John Wayne or Clint Eastwood
    In the 1980s-1990s it was Cop/War Action Flicks usually featuring Stallone, Arnold, Bruce Willis, etc...
    Finally in the early 2000s Spider-Man and X-Men started a new generation of Comic Book films

    Found this fantastic post on the Watchmen IMDB page summing up this era of popular cinema trends:

    Have to disagree with the first two. The epically long epic was a feature but such was the cost they were not a mainstay, the Golden Era studio system liked prestige releases but not too many.

    While the traditional western was largely moribund by the early 60s , they were not a box office mainstay with only the odd big hit which was when the oater was successfully tweaked with a "groovy" modern sensibility - Cat Ballou, Blazing Saddles (comedy), Butch Cassidy and Sundance Kid (smart buddy movie), Dollars trilogy (fancy European stylised violence) and so on. Your average Wayne western was a very modest presence after the Alamo.


  • Options
    #35
    SherlockWatson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭SherlockWatson


    Adamantium wrote: »
    At least the western was more grounded and (could) be a little less of a power fantasy.

    Found this fantastic post on the Watchmen IMDB page summing up this era of popular cinema trends:

    Blade should be remembered as the movie that kept comic book movies alive!


  • Options
    #36
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    The supposed five best in that quote are middle of my list at best.

    1. The Dark Knight

    Eh, no, TDK was an overlong, confused mess.

    2. Spider-Man

    Boring.

    3. Watchmen

    Different, yes. Brilliant, no.

    4. Superman Returns

    Hopeless retread of Reeve's superman, deservedly forgotten already.

    5. The Avengers

    A fun romp, but hardly memorable cinema.For me, the standout comic-book movies are:

    1. Iron Man
    2. Batman Begins

    then a wide gap to:

    3. Thor
    4. Hulk (yes, I liked Hulk. Sue me.)

    5. Captain America: The First Avenger


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    SherlockWatson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭SherlockWatson


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    The supposed five best in that quote are middle of my list at best.

    1. The Dark Knight

    Eh, no, TDK was an overlong, confused mess.

    2. Spider-Man

    Boring.

    3. Watchmen

    Different, yes. Brilliant, no.

    4. Superman Returns

    Hopeless retread of Reeve's superman, deservedly forgotten already.

    5. The Avengers

    A fun romp, but hardly memorable cinema.For me, the standout comic-book movies are:

    1. Iron Man
    2. Batman Begins

    then a wide gap to:

    3. Thor
    4. Hulk (yes, I liked Hulk. Sue me.)

    5. Captain America: The First Avenger

    They're not his his top 5 critically speaking as far as I'm aware, they're the top 5 comic book movies of significance I think he is saying!


  • Options
    #38
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    SherlockWatson wrote: »
    They're not his his top 5 critically speaking as far as I'm aware, they're the top 5 comic book movies of significance I think he is saying!

    No, he's saying:

    My prediction is when this CBM phase dries up and mainstream moves on to the next thing, there will be five films that stand up

    In other words, these are the "Shane", "True Grit", "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly", and "High Noon" of CBMs.


  • Options
    #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Don't see what the big deal is, at best we get 5 or 6 comic book inspired films a year and they generally do enough at the box office that the studios are able to take a risk on a few less mainstream offerings. Looking through the past years releases and we really do live in a great time for cinema. There's something for everybody out there at the minute and with multiplexs regularly getting in left field offerings and smaller films we really are spoilt for choice.


  • Options
    #40
    ps3lover
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭ps3lover


    Every film that's on in the cinema should cater to ME and only to ME, **** everyone else.


  • Options
    #41
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    It's not like you go to the cinema and see every time slot full of comic movies, I just had a look at the local cinema listings here and the only comic movies are Guardians which came out yesterday and one place still showing X-Men 1-2 times a day at the end of its run. There's been what 4 comic movies so far this year? We're now 8 months into the year so that's hardly a massive number.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    Looper007
    Registered Users Posts: 4,216 ✭✭✭Looper007


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    The supposed five best in that quote are middle of my list at best.

    1. The Dark Knight

    Eh, no, TDK was an overlong, confused mess.

    This alone makes me want to find you and go all Hulk on your ass :pac:

    One of the greatest films (YES I said it) of the last 20 years with one of the most iconic performances pit to screen, that doesn't dumb itself down or speaks down to it's audience. You call it a overlong confused mess, jesus wept.


  • Options
    #43
    Looper007
    Registered Users Posts: 4,216 ✭✭✭Looper007


    They make superhero movies cause it Makes big bucks and that's what cinema is all about for the studios. Art or making a statement means jack**** to the money men. Some of them suck but some of them are actually made by talented people who actually make great commercial blockbuster cinema that everyone can enjoy. I love a great superhero film just as much as I love arthouse or good drama.


  • Options
    #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I totally agree with the OP its a big joke and making a mockery of the art of cinema. However I agree with the second poster too, and have adopted the strategy of simply not watching them anymore. And suddenly I have much less bitterness towards superhero/comic book movies now. Its just a matter of reminding yourself to avoid! Theres more important things to get bitter about :D


  • Options
    #45
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I totally agree with the OP its a big joke and making a mockery of the art of cinema. However I agree with the second poster too, and have adopted the strategy of simply not watching them anymore. And suddenly I have much less bitterness towards superhero/comic book movies now. Its just a matter of reminding yourself to avoid! Theres more important things to get bitter about :D

    There are far, far worse films released to be annoyed about than mostly entertaining Marvel/comic movies. What about the godawful films Adam Sandler makes, or anything Tyler Perry puts out? those horrendous Disaster Movie type spoofs, made by the two most untalented people in Hollywood?

    I have this crazy idea where I dont go to movies I don't want to watch, it works out surprisingly well.


  • Options
    #46
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,141 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    krudler wrote: »
    There are far, far worse films released to be annoyed about than mostly entertaining Marvel/comic movies. What about the godawful films Adam Sandler makes, or anything Tyler Perry puts out? those horrendous Disaster Movie type spoofs, made by the two most untalented people in Hollywood?

    I have this crazy idea where I dont go to movies I don't want to watch, it works out surprisingly well.

    You missed tat like Keith Lemon and this:

    movies-pudsey-the-movie-poster.jpg

    Fair enough if someone doesn't like the superhero stuff and a lot of it is formulaic in fairness but it's so far from being the worst of today's selection and people will still persist in moaning about them.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Options
    #47
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Is..that real?


  • Options
    #48
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,141 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    krudler wrote: »
    Is..that real?

    Yes. I wish it wasn't but it is.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Options
    #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    You missed tat like Keith Lemon and this:

    movies-pudsey-the-movie-poster.jpg

    Fair enough if someone doesn't like the superhero stuff and a lot of it is formulaic in fairness but it's so far from being the worst of today's selection and people will still persist in moaning about them.

    The problem with people defending superhero films using another film to back up the point kinda negates the whole point of it. Now I have no interest in a film such as Pudsey the Dog but I'm not supposed to. It's a film for kids and if they enjoy it then it's done it's job. I just had the pleasure of watching Alvin and the Chipmunks: Chipwrecked with my little brother and enjoyed it far more than I should have thanks mainly to his reaction to the various gags and pratfalls. It's not a film that I would ever have watched were it not for the him but honestly, I've seen far worse films made for adults by adults.


  • Options
    #50
    Mal-Adjusted
    Registered Users Posts: 3,575 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    Deleted User wrote: »
    its a big joke and making a mockery of the art of cinema.

    you're going a bit over the top now. make sure your monocle doesn't fall out...


  • Options
    #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mal-Adjusted wrote: »
    you're going a bit over the top now. make sure your monocle doesn't fall out...

    Mmm I suppose if I reply to your effort to take the piss I'll get an infraction or banned as usual. If you like a diet of kids movies, thats your prerogative, personally I like films that I can't predict the exact plot and outcome of the movie before I sit down, but thats just me. I like to be able to think and not be in a permanent state of Bieber Fever.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,651 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Mmm I suppose if I reply to your effort to take the piss I'll get an infraction or banned as usual. If you like a diet of kids movies, thats your prerogative, personally I like films that I can't predict the exact plot and outcome of the movie before I sit down, but thats just me. I like to be able to think and not be in a permanent state of Bieber Fever.

    Yeah take that rod out of your butt and maybe try dropping your nose down below the clouds. And in case you are gonna report me over insulting you or some rubbish im just calling you a snob.
    So what if you don't like these movies, how in any way does it affect you if you simply do the obvious thing and just ignore them and don't go see them?

    And no its not affecting the "art of cinema" you know why? cus art is and always will be subjective and it doesn't just have to comply to your limited view of what you want it to be.


  • Options
    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Yeah take that rod out of your butt and maybe try dropping your nose down below the clouds. And in case you are gonna report me over insulting you or some rubbish im just calling you a snob.
    So what if you don't like these movies, how in any way does it affect you if you simply do the obvious thing and just ignore them and don't go see them?

    And no its not affecting the "art of cinema" you know why? cus art is and always will be subjective and it doesn't just have to comply to your limited view of what you want it to be.

    Ive already said I dont watch these movies, that doesn't limit me from making a social commentary on it thought does it?
    So superhero regurgitations are now art. Thats great.

    If my opinion that these things are kids films, which they are, and are tapered to be so makes me a snob, so be it. You can live in your own world of permanent nostalgia and PG13 level movies. That is the intelligence level they are aimed at is it not?


  • Options
    #54
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,094 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Keep it civil please. Insults personal or general are against the forum charter.


  • Options
    #55
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,651 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So superhero regurgitations are now art. Thats great.


    Your very statement about these movies being PG-13 and mention of intelligence levels due to that kinda proves my point about you being a snob. Also I would argue that snob is not necessarily an insult its simply categorizing you and your outlook on something as being needlessly limiting and restrictive.

    You don't think they are art cus they are pg-13? Do movies have to be 15's+ for you to consider them art?

    Ill say again art is subjective, if someone says something is art then tough luck thats what it is. There is no limit to what can be considered art.


  • Options
    #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Your very statement about these movies being PG-13 and mention of intelligence levels due to that kinda proves my point about you being a snob. Also I would argue that snob is not necessarily an insult its simply categorizing you and your outlook on something as being needlessly limiting and restrictive.

    You don't think they are art cus they are pg-13? Do movies have to be 15's+ for you to consider them art?

    Ill say again art is subjective, if someone says something is art then tough luck thats what it is. There is no limit to what can be considered art.

    Well yeah you can sit there and say anything is art, no matter how mundane, formulaic and produced to be attractive to brains that don't require a thought process. Some people will think thats a fantastic art and some people won't.

    But I dont agree with that easy way out. You can point to Boy Bands in music that are marketing machines, created and distributed by a business. You can also say that is art too, and use the same argument to back it up.

    The thing is we are intelligent enough to be able to see what is real and what is manufactured and placed in the world purporting to be art, and we can use our brains to criticise it when all it does is push the art form backwards.

    If I reproduce someone else's work, maybe I can be called an artist. But Im not much of an artist am I? Creativity? Free thinking? Originality? Are these not the basis of art as we define it? Or has art become something different? Simply produced just to adhere to what the brain of the masses is used to so that it can't fail? There is no spirit in that, its the very antithesis of art.


  • Options
    #57
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If I reproduce someone else's work, maybe I can be called an artist. But Im not much of an artist am I? Creativity? Free thinking? Originality? Are these not the basis of art as we define it? Or has art become something different? Simply produced just to adhere to what the brain of the masses is used to so that it can't fail? There is no spirit in that, its the very antithesis of art.

    Well, sure, but we're talking about Hollywood blockbusters here, not art-house film critic bait.

    You don't like blockbusters, fine, but what do you care if they are about superheroes or cowboys or cops-on-the-edge-of-a-nervous-breakdown? It's all commercial crap, right?


  • Options
    #58
    SherlockWatson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭SherlockWatson


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Well yeah you can sit there and say anything is art, no matter how mundane, formulaic and produced to be attractive to brains that don't require a thought process. Some people will think thats a fantastic art and some people won't.

    But I dont agree with that easy way out. You can point to Boy Bands in music that are marketing machines, created and distributed by a business. You can also say that is art too, and use the same argument to back it up.

    The thing is we are intelligent enough to be able to see what is real and what is manufactured and placed in the world purporting to be art, and we can use our brains to criticise it when all it does is push the art form backwards.

    If I reproduce someone else's work, maybe I can be called an artist. But Im not much of an artist am I? Creativity? Free thinking? Originality? Are these not the basis of art as we define it? Or has art become something different? Simply produced just to adhere to what the brain of the masses is used to so that it can't fail? There is no spirit in that, its the very antithesis of art.

    So you want every movie produced to your liking? Screw what everyone else is obviously enjoying, let's just completely reinvent the current cinema for you, and other "intelligent" cinema goers?


  • Options
    #59
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,011 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Well yeah you can sit there and say anything is art, no matter how mundane, formulaic and produced to be attractive to brains that don't require a thought process. Some people will think thats a fantastic art and some people won't.

    But I dont agree with that easy way out. You can point to Boy Bands in music that are marketing machines, created and distributed by a business. You can also say that is art too, and use the same argument to back it up.

    The thing is we are intelligent enough to be able to see what is real and what is manufactured and placed in the world purporting to be art, and we can use our brains to criticise it when all it does is push the art form backwards.

    If I reproduce someone else's work, maybe I can be called an artist. But Im not much of an artist am I? Creativity? Free thinking? Originality? Are these not the basis of art as we define it? Or has art become something different? Simply produced just to adhere to what the brain of the masses is used to so that it can't fail? There is no spirit in that, its the very antithesis of art.

    There's no universal definition of art, and throwing commercial distribution backed by profit-oriented companies into the mix certainly isn't going to hurt.

    Unless you can provide verifiable proof that the production of superhero films is directly contributing to a downturn in production or distribution of arthouse cinema, I think you're stuck with the position you've staked out for yourself, which appears to be "self-appointed taste police".

    What, exactly, is so hard about not watching a film if it doesn't interest you?


  • Options
    #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Well, sure, but we're talking about Hollywood blockbusters here, not art-house film critic bait.

    You don't like blockbusters, fine, but what do you care if they are about superheroes or cowboys or cops-on-the-edge-of-a-nervous-breakdown? It's all commercial crap, right?

    True. But I do like blockbuster movies, it just seems to me like they are all the same now, whereas before there was a lot more variety, original writing and so on.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    SherlockWatson wrote: »
    So you want every movie produced to your liking? Screw what everyone else is obviously enjoying, let's just completely reinvent the current cinema for you, and other "intelligent" cinema goers?

    Dont know what your getting at here really. It seems obvious to me that there is a total overdose of comic book movies one after another. When does the law of diminishing marginal returns kick in? Surely after you eat 10 creams eggs in a row, the 11th starts to lose its flavour?


Advertisement