FEMA camps and Swine Flu coffins are ready for US state of Emergency and martial law

humanji · 29-04-2009 9:18pm

DubTony wrote: »

Isn't it about 150 people have died from this thing in a city of 20 million + ?

Yup, bubonic plague all over again. The black death is back. We're all f*cked.

If unchecked it could mutate and wipe out civilisation, so it's a little more serious. That said, it could simply die out with no more victims, but it's best to err on the side of caution.

You can't say "I told you so" when you're dead.

humanji · 29-04-2009 9:20pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I believe that this so called swine flu virus is synthetic and developed in a laboritory and released intentionally, I also believe the follow up vaccination drug is also synthetic and could possibly be already "developed".

So you think it's all futile and we should just lie down with a shroud over our faces?

kadman · 29-04-2009 9:29pm

Run to da hills, i concur completely with everything you,ve posted so far..:cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBeKB7aKzOs&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edavidicke%2Ecom%2Fforum%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D63444&feature=player_embedded

watch?v=GBeKB7aKzOs&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edavidicke%2Ecom%2Fforum%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D63444&feature=player_embedded

Wake up now please.:)

kadman

kippy · 29-04-2009 9:33pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I believe that this so called swine flu virus is synthetic and developed in a laboritory and released intentionally, I also believe the follow up vaccination drug is also synthetic and could possibly be already "developed".

Do you believe that any virus can be created/mutated/released purely by natural processes? (like the majority of virus' already out there)

bonkey · 29-04-2009 10:16pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Mexican President Felipe Calderon issued an emergency decree on Saturday giving the government special powers to run tests on sick people and order them isolated to fight the deadly flu crisis.

Mexico City has already shut schools and museums and canceled sporting and cultural events as an outbreak of a new type of swine flu killed up to 68 people in the country and spread north to infect some people in the United States.

...

I suggest if anything is done it must be done with extreme caution

It seems people may have misunderstood your initial post. You were applauding the Mexican government for acting with extreme caution...right?

kadman · 29-04-2009 10:21pm

How did the bird flu virus, H5N1 get into the vaccines product material , made by Baxter,

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/02/27/8560781.html

The company that released contaminated flu virus material from a plant in Austria confirmed Friday that the experimental product contained live H5N1 avian flu viruses.

And an official of the World Health Organization’s European operation said the body is closely monitoring the investigation into the events that took place at Baxter International’s research facility in Orth-Donau, Austria.

kadman

kippy · 29-04-2009 10:38pm

kadman wrote: »

How did the bird flu virus, H5N1 get into the vaccines product material , made by Baxter,

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/02/27/8560781.html

kadman

I was under the impression that all flu vaccines contained a portion of the flu virus they were designed to fight. In this case it looks like they were developing one to deal with the strain on avian flu which was transmissible to humans. I could be completely wrong on all there but that wouldnt be a strange position to be in, in this particular forum.
Kippy

j1smithy · 29-04-2009 11:19pm

Mac daddy wrote: »

around 50.000 People die every year in the US of influenza and another 13.000 of TB I don't see them rolling out the vaccine and pills for that. but yet this happens straight away here boy take this pill it could make you go insane ( like what happend in japan ) or do the reverse to what it is meant to do!

Just to point out a vaccine for the annual winter strain of flu is developed and distributed widely globally. heck they even give it to elderly people for free here and you know what it saves many lives. They also give TB shots to children when they are very young, any you know what incidence of TB has fallen dramatically since that programme was introduced.

All I've seen here are intelligent public health measures, that save lives. Now the world is faced with a possible pandemic, that being a contageous and fatal (in 1% to 4% of cases) form of influenza being spread through vectors that have never before existed in history (air travellers). It is only right that global organisations and national governments do what ever necessary in order to contain and prevent the deaths of people. I have also seen no evidence that FEMA have set up death camps or the like, not even a trusty worthy link.

There is no conspiracy here, please move along.

Sofa_King Good · 30-04-2009 12:43am

.

j1smithy wrote: »

Just to point out a vaccine for the annual winter strain of flu is developed and distributed widely globally. heck they even give it to elderly people for free here and you know what it saves many lives.

How many exactly?

j1smithy wrote: »

All I've seen here are intelligent public health measures, that save lives. Now the world is faced with a possible pandemic, that being a contageous and fatal (in 1% to 4% of cases) form of influenza being spread through vectors that have never before existed in history (air travellers).

http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/ops/hsc-scen-3_flu-pandemic-deaths.htm

Don't know where you are going with this. There has been the Spanish Flu, Asian Flu and Hong Kong Flu, all since the advent of air travellers plus various pandemic threats up to Avian Flu.

Also, the mortality rate is currently 5.2%, 8/154. This is line with the average

During a typical year in the United States, 30,000 to 50,000 persons die as a result of influenza viral infection. Frequently cited numbers are 20,000 deaths each year, and 37,000 annual deaths. About 5-10% of hospitalizations for influenza lead to fatal outcome in adults.

Sofa_King Good · 30-04-2009 1:21am

j1smithy wrote: »

There is no conspiracy here, please move along.

Perhaps you are correct, I am not sure yet.

There are a couple of possibilites I am trying to juggle with.

1. It is a freak but natural strain

2. It is a man-made biological weapon

For the purpose of (a) or (b) or both:

(a) A wag the dog situation to take the heat off the governments and their controllers due to the economic meltdown. They can now effectively kill all other stories with the hysteria the media generates.

And generally the reports from outside Mexico have been of "mild" symptoms with full recovery.

So why all the media attention now?

Stories such as the torture memos
http://documents.nytimes.com/justice...techniques#p=2
and the non prosecution of those involved
http://documents.nytimes.com/justice-department-memos-on-interrogation-techniques#p=2

UK high court demands release of torture documents
http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20090422/wl_mcclatchy/3218126

The 3 men cleared of involvement in the 7/7 attacks
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7507842.stm

And the appeal of the "Lockerbie Bomber"
http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/international/6278315/Lockerbie-bomber-launches-second-appeal

(b) This is from 2005 and the bird flu threat

Widespread fears of a bird flu pandemic have helped spark a sales surge at Swiss drugs group Roche, which makes Tamiflu - seen as the best treatment for the rapidly spreading strain of the virus.
Roche, which is the world's only manufacturer of Tamiflu, revealed this morning that group sales had surged to more than £11.1 billion in the third quarter, driven by "significant growth" in sales of the drug.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article580246.ece

So there is motive straight away and its worth pointing out that Donald Rumsfeld is a shareholder.

Also it is worth pointing out that a strain has been developed that will transmit from human to human. All in the name of health of course.

3. They just want to kill as many people as possible.

And while I think of it, for anyone who refuses to take a vaccine I'd reccomend Vit D

j1smithy · 30-04-2009 1:26am

One large meta-analysis of such studies concluded that those who get flu shots are half as likely to die over the winter as their unvaccinated peers (Vaccine, vol 20, p 1831)

You are being disingenuous, the latest flu you mention was Hong Kong Flu which was in 1968. While Air travel existed then, it is an entirely different scene now. Mass air travel has only existed since the 1980's. You cannot include avian flu as that doesn't spread from human to human, birds are its vector.

Yes at the moment it has a mortality rate of 5% however many of those were young people (under 40). Thats why the WHO is so worried about it. Winter flu typically kills the old or ones with weak immune systems. The fear is here is that like Spanish flu of the early part of the 20th Century that this flu causes cytokine storms within the host, thus fit people will be particularly vunerable.

While some hysteria has been generated by the media, its unfair to say that FEMA are going to put people in camps. Its ridiculous in fact. No evidence suggests it and it reflects badly on the OP to make such things up. (entirely fabricated)

Sofa_King Good · 30-04-2009 1:40am

Thats all well and good but they don't even know yet if it is even Swine flu or if it even came from pigs at all.

They know very little at all in fact until the UN team from The Food and Agriculture Organisation report their findings from Mexico.

What is known is that 8 people have died from an illness since mid-March. It hardly deserves the media frenzy IMO.

j1smithy · 30-04-2009 1:41am

Personally I think its option A as you outline above. But thats just my opinion. Yes you could say this has come along at a good time for governments ( the same argument could be made that it has come along at a bad time as it is another expensive problem they have to deal with) as it takes peoples minds off the recession however we live in a world of breaking news and its not unusual for one story to eclipse another. It is worth pointing out though that BBC and other news services have not devoted their entire news output to the flu story so its unlikely the flu will be used to bury bad news.

The fact that Donald Rumsfeld is a shareholder in Roche lacks relevance tbh. I'm probably a shareholder too through my pension.

Sofa_King Good · 30-04-2009 1:47am

This is on the Swine Flu threat of 76 and the mass vaccinations that followed

Only young Lewis died from the swine flu itself in 1976. But as the critics are quick to point out, hundreds of Americans were killed or seriously injured by the inoculation the government gave them to stave off the virus.

http://www.capitalcentury.com/1976.html

Sofa_King Good · 30-04-2009 1:58am

j1smithy wrote: »

No evidence suggests it and it reflects badly on the OP to make such things up. (entirely fabricated)

This is the closest I can get on that - Bush stating he may use the military to quarantine US citizens during Bird Flu scare.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,171230,00.html

Sofa_King Good · 30-04-2009 2:05am

j1smithy wrote: »

The fact that Donald Rumsfeld is a shareholder in Roche lacks relevance tbh. I'm probably a shareholder too through my pension.

I'd disagree, if it is the case that the pharmaceutical co's are involved.

To back up his involvement

NEW YORK (Fortune) - The prospect of a bird flu outbreak may be panicking people around the globe, but it's proving to be very good news for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and other politically connected investors in Gilead Sciences, the California biotech company that owns the rights to Tamiflu, the influenza remedy that's now the most-sought after drug in the world.

Rumsfeld served as Gilead (Research)'s chairman from 1997 until he joined the Bush administration in 2001, and he still holds a Gilead stake valued at between $5 million and $25 million, according to federal financial disclosures filed by Rumsfeld.

The forms don't reveal the exact number of shares Rumsfeld owns, but in the past six months fears of a pandemic and the ensuing scramble for Tamiflu have sent Gilead's stock from $35 to $47. That's made the Pentagon chief, already one of the wealthiest members of the Bush cabinet, at least $1 million richer.

Rumsfeld isn't the only political heavyweight benefiting from demand for Tamiflu, which is manufactured and marketed by Swiss pharma giant Roche. (Gilead receives a royalty from Roche equaling about 10% of sales.) Former Secretary of State George Shultz, who is on Gilead's board, has sold more than $7 million worth of Gilead since the beginning of 2005.
Another board member is the wife of former California Gov. Pete Wilson.

"I don't know of any biotech company that's so politically well-connected," says analyst Andrew McDonald of Think Equity Partners in San Francisco.

What's more, the federal government is emerging as one of the world's biggest customers for Tamiflu. In July, the Pentagon ordered $58 million worth of the treatment for U.S. troops around the world, and Congress is considering a multi-billion dollar purchase. Roche expects 2005 sales for Tamiflu to be about $1 billion, compared with $258 million in 2004.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/31/news/newsmakers/fortune_rumsfeld/

rockmongrel · 30-04-2009 2:13am

Just because hes got shares in a company doesn't show he's a mastermind. I mean, 1 million dollars is nothing in the states these days, so orchestrating a pandemic for a couple of million seems a bit unlikely given his wealth anyway.

Sofa_King Good · 30-04-2009 2:22am

Here is something more current on Gilead

Gilead is one of the drugmakers that could benefit.That's because its antiviral pill Tamiflu, which is marketed by Roche, is one of two drugs that is effective against this strain of influenza. Gilead collects royalty payments from Tamiflu sales, which peaked at $2 billion in 2006 as countries rushed to stockpile the drug against the threat of avian flu.

Tamiflu sales plummeted after governments finished building up their reserves. From 2007 to 2008, Gilead's royalties dropped 63% to $156 million, just 3% of annual revenues. But if countries are forced to dip into their stockpiles to combat the swine flu, sales could rebound.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has already released 12.5 million doses of Tamiflu, which Citigroup analyst Yaron Werber estimates are worth $250 million in sales. Confirmed cases of swine flu in the U.S. climbed to 91 Wednesday with the nation's first reported death, a 22-month old child who traveled to Houston from Mexico for treatment.

"It remains to be seen how much usage there's going to be and how much further stockpiling there might be," says Werber. "But we assume that the U.S. government will need to restock that $250 million worth of orders. For every $100 million in sales, that adds roughly two cents to Gilead's bottom line."

Other analysts are even more bullish. "Governments around the world, not just the U.S., that distribute Tamiflu are not going to take back the Tamiflu that's not used, so it's likely we'll see new purchases," says ThinkEquity's Jason Kolbert.

Gilead shares have risen 4% since Friday to close at $47.60 Tuesday.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Investor-Daily-Swine-flu-fear-hftn-15069829.html?.v=5

zing zong · 30-04-2009 3:01am

remember when birdflu caused the media to scream "we're all gonna die" ?
remember when s.a.r.s. caused the media to scream "we're all gonna die" ?

what happened? governments spent a fortune on medication which went largely unused, and a relatively tiny number of people died.

now due to swineflu the media are shouting it again....

bonkey · 30-04-2009 7:32am

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

.
Also, the mortality rate is currently 5.2%, 8/154. This is line with the average

Currently, the mortality rate of known cases is around 5.2%.

Compare this with your statistic regarding normal inluenza outbreaks which said that about 5-10% of hospitalizations for influenza lead to fatal outcome in adults.

Spot the difference? These are not in line with each other, unless a significant majority of all influenza cases lead to hospitalisation in a typical year.

Sofa_King Good · 30-04-2009 7:49am

yeah but what you have to factor in also is the symptoms of this strain would not need hospitalisation for the majority either under normal circumstances i.e. precautionary and testing and so on.

'I feel great,' he said today. 'But I had a headache and a sore throat and a fever for a while. I had to lie down in bed.'
- Edgar Hernandez
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1174270/I-feel-great-says-year-old-Mexican-boy-living-near-ground-zero-pig-farm-hold-key-swine-flu-outbreak.html

On the cases in Canada

" Just because so far we have seen relatively mild, typical influenza symptoms...it doesn’t mean that we won’t see either more severe illness or potentially deaths,” said Dr. David Butler-Jones, chief public health officer of Canada.

“No one should lull themselves into thinking that everything is just fine because it’s a relatively mild disease. We can’t say that forever but we are doing everything to minimize that impact.”
http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2009/04/26/9255411-sun.html

Here it is referred to as a "relative lightweight"

"Despite the action being taken by national and international health organizations, some infectious disease experts say it is far too early to fear the worst -- a global flu pandemic.

"The current swine flu only marginally meets only one of three of pandemic tests: effective person-to-person transmission," Hsu said, adding that the other tests -- susceptibility and no natural immunity or vaccine -- remain to be satisfied.

Hsu further noted that compared to the H5N1 strain of the avian flu virus -- commonly known as bird flu -- the current H1N1 swine flu strain is still a relative lightweight. Since 2003, he said, bird flu has garnered a 60 percent case fatality rate, and it never attained pandemic status. Meanwhile, the current swine flu strain still has fewer than 1,000 reported cases and only about 60 fatalities to its name.

"If not [a pandemic] then, why now?" he asked."
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ColdandFluNews/Story?id=7429669&page=3

kadman · 30-04-2009 1:01pm

The current result of the generated media hype on the swineflu scare seems to be , governments stockpiling medications for use in a pandemic, and the introduction of additional laws and regulations for use, should such a pandemic occur.

The subject of swine flu was virtually zero in the msm 4 weeks ago, now its common news in most eu countries, after a minimal number of deaths. Compared to the thousands of deaths yearly in America alone, from influenza , but there was never a worldwide awareness and action then .

Why now.

kadman

zing zong · 30-04-2009 1:13pm

kadman wrote: »

The current result of the generated media hype on the swineflu scare seems to be , governments stockpiling medications for use in a pandemic, and the introduction of additional laws and regulations for use, should such a pandemic occur.

The subject of swine flu was virtually zero in the msm 4 weeks ago, now its common news in most eu countries, after a minimal number of deaths. Compared to the thousands of deaths yearly in America alone, from influenza , but there was never a worldwide awareness and action then .

Why now.

kadman

agreed, seems to be another flavour of the month for the pharma companies, hence the big push for awareness (advertizing) resulting in stockpiling (big sales)

kadman · 30-04-2009 1:15pm

rockmongrel wrote: »

Just because hes got shares in a company doesn't show he's a mastermind. I mean, 1 million dollars is nothing in the states these days, so orchestrating a pandemic for a couple of million seems a bit unlikely given his wealth anyway.

True, not for a couple of million................but a billion mmm, maybe.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2009/04/swine_flu_outbreak_revives_con.html

The liberal blogosphere has been percolating this morning with criticism of Sen. Susan Collins (Maine), the top Republican on HSGAC, for having helped to strip close to $900 million for pandemic influenza preparedness from the economic stimulus package back in February. That bill passed with the crucial support of Collins and just two other Republicans after a handful of controversial or arguably non-stimulative items were removed, including the pandemic funding

Sooo maybe if we get our pandemic, we get back our 900 mill stimulas payment.

kadman

Undergod · 30-04-2009 1:18pm

Most people don't really take into consideration things like the number of deaths caused by other flu strains.

It's reported in the news because it's responsible to let people know about a potential health risk, especially a new one, from overseas.

People are interested in this news so it continues to be reported and becomes high-profile news.

davej · 30-04-2009 4:35pm

kadman wrote: »

Why now.

Maybe because of the age profile of the victims ?

Whether or not this virus is man made, which seems unlikely to me since the conspirators would be risking virus mutation beyond their own control, governments around the world are certainly going to try to use it to their advantage. It can be used to bury other stories or enact "emergency" legislation.

If the US government begins to strongly "advise" people not to congregate in groups of more than 3 people, then it might be the real deal (Martial Law by the back door).

davej

kippy · 01-05-2009 8:47am

Personally, I hope I catch the damn thing soon, get it over with, build up a resistance to it, then move on (or die, which is unlikely) and concentrate on the real issues.

Mahatma coat · 01-05-2009 8:55am

On the sneaky introduction of New legislation/security measures

Thermal imagin got rolled out almost overnight here in Australia when this story broke, all the airports have 'installed' thermal imagin scanners and they are up and running.

took less than 48 hours, whats the agenda with these things?

kippy · 01-05-2009 9:56am

Mahatma coat wrote: »

On the sneaky introduction of New legislation/security measures

Thermal imagin got rolled out almost overnight here in Australia when this story broke, all the airports have 'installed' thermal imagin scanners and they are up and running.

took less than 48 hours, whats the agenda with these things?

I think if you have a high temperature you are more likely to have a "flu".
Either way if you've nothing to hide your sound surely, the same with any form of "freedom remover device"

humanji · 01-05-2009 10:10am

Mahatma coat wrote: »

On the sneaky introduction of New legislation/security measures

Thermal imagin got rolled out almost overnight here in Australia when this story broke, all the airports have 'installed' thermal imagin scanners and they are up and running.

took less than 48 hours, whats the agenda with these things?

As Kippy says, it's to see if you've a highg temperature. Not the most sinister thing in the world, and they're not much good for anything other than seeing your temperature.

FEMA camps and Swine Flu coffins are ready for US state of Emergency and martial law

Comments